User talk:Max rspct/archive2
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NOVEMBER 2005
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[edit] Ensuring consistency
I have edited the intro of this the anarchism article to point to anarcho-capitalism and removed the section on anarcho-capitalism. This is an attempt to mirror the status of the libertarianism article in regards to the lesser known libertarian socialism, please take a moment to look at each article and compare. It is my belief that given the featured status of the libertarianism article, its relative stability compared to this article, and the clear similarity of the subject matter, this is a road toward a legitimate compromise. I would ask that the two major catalysts of the ongiong edit war of this article (RJ and Hogeye), both of whom have also edited the libertarianism article, please ensure that you are consistent in any standard you apply to this article. Hopefully this will help us reach the point of stability that the civil editors of libertarianism have been able to do in the relative absence of constant antagonism.
This message has been posted to the user pages of all the current major contributors I could find, if you know of someone I have left out please feel free to forward it. Revkat 16:52, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] My Userpage
Thanks for fixing the typo on my userpage! :) - Cheers, Mailer Diablo 18:05, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
My pleasure - max rspct
[edit] St. Agnes Place
See this article St Agnes Place ?? LoopZilla 10:41, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] POV Notice for Orania paragraph.
There is a POV notice for the final paragraph in the Today section dealing with Orania as you are purely stating a personal opinion when you state that the town represents "a revival of Apartheid practices" despite the fact that the town has not passed a single public law resembling Apartheid as the town is own by a private company which is acting in accordance with the RSA Constitution.
Furthermore the notion that racial separation will be enforced is purely a personal opinion because the fact of the matter is that a number of Afrikaners have openly expressed that they are not opposed to members of the Afrikaans speaking Coloured communities from living there. There are for example many Griquas who have been living in the Northern Cape region for generations.
The purpose of Orania is to create an Afrikaans demographic consolidation in the region in order for Boers & Afrikaners in general to acquire a place where their culture / language & people in general can be protected by virtue of the fact that they constitute a majority of the population in the specific region.
[edit] World Trade Center
Please see my comments at Talk:World Trade Center#The word "was". —Cleared as filed. 13:00, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Benito Martinez claim to 125
Max Rspct, in regards to Benito Martinez, I have created a Longevity Claims article which is not just a compromise, but represents the view that there are three stages of record-keeping (and thus age-verification), which are pre-literate, transitional, and modern. This demographic theory is attested to in demography and gerontology. For example, the UK has had compulsory birth registration since 1837 for theoretically 100% of the population (the UK is in the modern stage). Both Cuba and the US are in the transitional stage (US birth registration was not compulsory until 1933, meaning the US should be in the "modern" stage by 2053 or so). IN pre-literate or mythological societies, little or no record-keeping is done---claims are often "I'm 150" but not even a birth day, month, or year are given since there is no record.
Please note that "Longevity Claims" does not mean the record is true; it means the record has neither been proven true or false. If this idea goes over well, I would like to continue Longevity myths as an historiographic record of the myths of longevity, together with extreme cases either disproven or severely doubted (such as Thomas Parr of the UK, 152 in 1635, or Javier Pereira of Colombia, age 167).
Using the three-stage plan, "supercentenarian" cases are those proven true by modern scientific method; "longevity claims" are those claiming to be 110 or older but whose age has neither been totally verified, totally proven false, and still maintains a possibility (however slim) of veracity. "Longevity Myths" would be reserved for claims to 130+ and those proven false.
Sincerely, Robert Young Ryoung122 10:00, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
- Excellent (and why didn't this happen before?). Cheers for letting me know. -max rspct 14:51, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] The Boer Genocide.
The following is in response to the terse question you posted on Nov 16.
The agricultural department of a South African bank is hardly the only source for the increasingly more well known genocide against the Boer farmers of South Africa. Gregory Stanton from the United Nations mandated Genocide Watch raised the alert regarding the Boer genocide over 3 years ago which he has put at stage six. This is rather serious.
The American CBS program 60 Minutes aired a segment on this very topic in January of 1999 featuring Boer farmers being interviewed by Ed Bradley & reran the segment on July 1999. One of the people Bradley interviewed was a one Mr Marais -a very common Boer / Afrikaans surname of French Huguenot origin. The anti-apartheid jouranlist Adriana Stuijt relocated in the Netherlands has been reporting & raising international awareness of this genocide. The British media have been reporting on this growing genocide & have reported the death toll numbers. Also: an American investigative journalist named Anthony C. LoBaido has been reporting on this genocide as well.
Over 1000 Boer Farmers In South Africa Have Been Murdered Since 1991
Copyright 2002 Genocide Watch
This Genocide Watch is to raise an alert concerning the number of Boer farmers slain since the end of apartheid in South Africa. The threat of destruction of a group must not be ignored because its numbers are small or its members disfavoured because they have acted in discriminatory ways in the past. A critical factor in this analysis is the total remaining number of Boer farmers. The total number of ethno-European farmers in South Africa has been estimated at approximately 40,000 to 45,000. The majority of ethno-European farmers are Boers. In world context, this may seem to be a small number of people. But such absolute numbers are biased against recognition of threats to the survival of minorities. The smaller the minority the more severe this bias.
The above is from: Genocide Watch.
The very fact that Geocide Watch has issued an alert concerning this genocide & pointed out that the Boer farmers are at stage six should certainly be of note.
The above is from: Stop Boer Genocide.
The anti-apartheid journalist Adriana Stuijt who is raising awareness about this issue has a web site which can be found at: Censorbugbear.
I would strongly suggest viewing the television special concerning this issue at: the following link.
Gregory Stanton of Genocide Watch as well as Professor Neels Moolman who wrote an informantive book concerning the genocide are both featured in the television special.
Read the full transcript of the program at this link.
Also see dated from 2001 the following report.
More South African Farmers Massacred.
The following is from the London Telegraph.
The above is from: Murders foreshadow South African land war.
The murder rate for SA farmers is 313 per 100,000 - the highest in the world. Source: http://www.interpol.com.
The fact of the matter is that one of the most dangerous jobs in the world in being a South African farmer.
Anthony C. LoBaido.
Their history is filled with hardships, tragedy & turmoil. Even before they arrived in the Cape & all the well known history of the VOC rule, British colonialism & clashes on the eastern frontier & all that followed such as the Great Trek & British genocide against Boer civilians in the concentration camps during the second Anglo-Boer War. Their French Huguenot, Belgian & German ancestors fled political & religious persecution in Europe. Their Dutch ancestors fought against Spain when the Netherlands was still under its control. Even many of the first Dutch & Frisian ancestors were forced to accompany the tyrannical Jan Van Riebeeck as they had been flooded out from their homes. Their fewer but significant Indian ancestors were slaves of the Dutch East India co. Remember: the Dutch East India Co. was even opposed to their permanent establishment -most could not afford the trip back even if some might have wanted to return- as they viewed them as a competitive rival in the region.
The following report is dated from 3 years ago.
There are 40,000 white farmers in South Africa. Over 1,200 have been murdered since 1994 – the year the Marxist African National Congress, backed by the United Nations, European Union, Russia, China and the U.S. State Department, took power.
Add to this another 6,000 attacks and the white Boer Afrikaner farmer is easily the highest at-risk group for murder on Earth. The ANC has responded to this crisis by blaming whites and putting a ban on crime statistics because they scare off foreign investment.
"I won't hold my breath waiting for Oprah to call, or Jesse Jackson, Jimmy Carter or Al Sharpton," Coetzee told WorldNetDaily.
"It's politically correct to kill whites these days. What is so strange is the fact that we white farmers feed the black population. But look at Zimbabwe. The black leaders have engineered a famine against their own black citizens. It's as if it's all part of some horrible 'master plan.' Apparently, getting blacks to starve blacks to death doesn't really bother anyone in the Western world."
To the north, Zimbabwe's Marxist dictator Robert Mugabe has terrorized the nation's white farmers with state-sanctioned land seizures, torture, rape and murder.
The excerpt above is from a report entitiled: White Afrikaner farmers under siege.
The above is from: Letter to the United Nations.
A South African expatriot named Malcolm Wren -who with his wife runs the Stop Boer Genocide.com web site- walked across England in 2003 in order to raise public awareness about the topic.
A number of ANC & PAC supporters still chant the hate slogan: " kill the boer kill the farmer." Read more about it here at this link.
Professor Moolman: a government appointed criminaologist has published several papers on farm murders warning that South Africa's justice system is falling apart & wrote an informative book concerning this genocide as well.
The following is an excerpt from: Killing of South Africa Farmers Intensifies by Anthony C. LoBaido.
According to a journalist covering the killings in South Africa, since the Marxist ANC took power in 1994, 1,118 farmers have been murdered in the nation.
"Where is President Bush on this issue? Where is Colin Powell? I know this is blacks killing whites, so that is politically correct. The media don't seem to care. And apologists like Andrew Young are saying, 'Killing whites is OK; it's part of reversing colonialism,'" said Henda Wolfardt, a South African farmer who lives near Ventersdorp with her husband and two sons.
The above is from: Killing of South Africa farmers intensifies.
Note: the article is from 2001. The current death toll of farmers has reached over 1 700 now.
There are many more reports concerning this growing genocide.
The Boer farmers have been reported as the most at risk group for being killed in the whole world. This fact speaks volumes that they are being targeted for genocide. This genocide against the Boer farmers is most ridiculous as the elimination of these farmers will lead to mass starvation which would affect all of South Africa's peoples.
Furthermore: this sardonic comment / question on our part has indicated that you do not do your homework. The increasing genocide against Boer farmers has been noted in the numerous reports which note how the assailants wait until the their victims come home & then brutally torture before killing them. This fact illustrates that these killings are hate crimes as well.
Sorry if this hurts you, but I think in most people (inc. the academically advantaged) would say=
a)The Boers suffered genocide of sorts during the Boer Wars and especially around the time of Second Boer War
b)1000 Afrikaner farmers killed in 14 years does not constitute a Boer (and inaccurate to name them so) genocide
c)Where is the government or organising force behind this 'genocide'
Why doesn't genocide-watch have its own article on wikipedia? Also is that page link to genocide watch (other links are interest groups) ...is that not a letter to genocide watch rather than official policy ? As the header tab on it says "Dear Dr"-max rspct 22:38, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
Response to a: The Boers in fact did suffer a greater genocide during the second Anglo-Boer War. At least twenty seven thousand civilians (mainly children under the age of sixteen) died in the British concentration camps. I am glad & somewhat surprised that you have acknowledged this fact considering the anti-Boer tone of your rhetoric.
Response to b: First of all: more than 1 700 have been killed now & over 20 000 have been attacked in attacks where most of the time nothing at all is stolen. This should ring alarm bells. As to the term genocide: this is not something which is being used lightly. As I pointed out: this term is being used by none other than Gregory Stanton of Genocide Watch. I even posted an alert which he issued himself & I posted a link to the television special in which he states that what is happening against the Boers constitutes a genocide. There is even a transcript posted to the very program in question to read it for yourself if for whatever reason you were unable to view the special at the link I posted. Furthermore: even if these attacks & killing were not organized, the result will still lead to genocide as the result would be the destruction of an ethnic / national group.
Response to c: From Shell House. It has been reported that many of the attacks have been coordinated from Shell House: the ANC headquarters. A few of those who have been arrested have even admitted this. Furthermore: the attacks are conducted with military style precision.
Perion Rayford.
Note: Perion Rayford is a pseudonym used by Anthony C. LoBaido in order to protect the researcher's identity: a top Cape Town-based researcher for the Democratic Alliance: formerly the Progressive Party: the White anti-aparhteid political party which was represented in parliament.
< snip. >
Prominent British journalist Christopher Hitchens said Nelson Mandela was being "used as a fig leaf for an increasingly repressive regime."
From: Marxists' destroy 'New South Africa'.
From: Kill the Boer, kill the farmer'.
No. The others are mainly links to news reports documenting the situation.
The article in question was authored by Gregory Stanton. The head of Genocide Watch. The article is also copyrighted by Genocide Watch. Furthermore the following is found at the end of the page in question.
The following is a transcript of a segment of what Gregory Stanton said in the Carte Blanche television program. Once you've finished reading it, you will know why this is being referred to as a genocide.
Read the full transcript of this program at this link.
Dr. Stanton is a retired American professor of law who heads Genocide Watch, the organisation that co-ordinates the international campaign to end genocide.
We met him in Berlin where he was attending a conference in remembrance of the Holocaust.
He believes that, apart from crime, there's also another motive.
Gregory: “There's a motive of hatred, that these are hate crimes, that people are tortured, that they're murdered in ways that are de-humanising.”
Not only does Stanton believe farm murders are hate crimes, but he's also recently warned the world that the white farmers in South Africa could be facing genocide. Twenty years ago he witnessed the horrors of the Cambodian genocide.
Gregory: “I realised, I think, from that point forward that I would spend the rest of my life working to stop genocide and to bring those who committed it to justice.”
Years later, that's exactly what he did. He was the person responsible for drafting the UN resolutions that created the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda.
Stanton has identified eight stages of genocide by comparing the history of genocides in the 20th century. He describes it as a process, rather than an act that could take many years to be effected.
Gregory: “The third stage is really where you begin the downward spiral into genocide and that is the stage of de-humanisation. It is where you treat the other people as though they're less than human.”
A scene like this, he says, should have the alarm bells ringing.
This farmer was ambushed at his farm gate, shot in the back and left to die. His vehicle was burnt out and his body displayed with the lights and number plates.
Gregory: “These are clearly hate crimes. It's such a symbolic expression of de-humanisation. They're so treating him like a thing.”
It's often thought that a whole group needs to be killed before it's defined as genocide, but that's not the case.
Stanton says the more than one thousand four hundred farmers killed in South Africa could be classified under the Genocide Convention.
Gregory: “Even if it's a few hundred individuals who have been targeted, that is an act of genocide under the convention.”
However, Stanton warns that South Africa has already slipped into the fifth stage of the process, or what he refers to as polarisation.
Gregory: “Extremists attempt to drive out the centre, they attempt to divide the world into just two camps; into us and them.”
And from there on, he says, it's a small step to the seventh stage when the actual genocide takes place and where the word genocide is used.
Gregory: “People who commit this crime often think amazingly enough that they're purifying their society in some way or another, you know - they're getting rid of insects or some kind of less than human form of life.”
A civil war is potentially more likely, says Moolman.
Prof Neels Moolman: “I don't think we are there yet, but I think that we are speeding to that point very fast if the radicals are not controlled properly.”
Gregory: “They will say that the genocide was really just a civil war as though a civil war somehow was an opposite of genocide when in fact many genocides occurred during civil wars.”
The above excerpt is from the Carte Blanche television program. I am beginning to suspect that you did not even view the program at the link I provided nor even have read the transcript which was provided as well.
Since if you had, you would have known that Gregory Stanton has publicly stated that the attacks & murders of Boer farmers constitutes a genocide under the Genocide Convention.
I notice that you have gone from stating that the source of Genocide Watch's alert was merely am "agricultural department of a South African banck" to now atempting to deny the fact that Genocide Watch has issued & raised the alert of genocide against the Boer farmers.
Furthermore: none of what you wrote "hurts" myself in the least as I am not a Boer farmer, but your attitude of indifference & your attempts at downplaying & denying the facts before you concerning the genocide will most certainly continue to hurt & ultimately eradicate the Boer farmers from existence. This is otherwise known as genocide.
People seem to be fond of saying "never again", yet when they are given the chance to back up their utterances with concrete action at preventing genocide, they seem to like to ignore it (as was the case with Rwanda) or downplay it (as was the case in Yugoslavia & as you are currently doing with the Boers) or simply deny it as some did with East Timor.
Now considering that you can no longer claim ignorance: you can either stand with the educated & informed by opposing the genocide or you can stand with the haters & deniers.
The Wikipedia article to Genocide that you posted points out exactly what is transpiring against the Boer farmers.
On an interesting note: During the aftermath of the second Anglo-Boer War many Boers were destitute & even some children were orphaned. A significant number of Boer children were adopted by English speakers, not just wealthy Afrikaner families from outside the Republics. Those children who adopted English names & language have been reported as "forever lost to the Boer nation". Some English speakers hence are in fact be from Boer heritage. It has been estimated that the total number present day Afrikaners could have been from five million to seven million -as opposed to the current 3 million- had not such a significant number of Boers died in the concentration camps or were adopted by English speakers.
Virtually all the above requirements are being met. There is indeed a coordinated plan of attack against the vulnerable Boer farmers with the aim of annihilating the group itself. The disintegration of the political & social institutions are just beginning, but the disintegration of culture, language & national feelings of the Boers are being implemented with the increasing eradication of the number of Afrikaans language educational institutions & the constant government actions against Boer cultural radio stations. In fact the cultural genocide against the Boers initially began with their partial physical genocide -about 15 % of the republican Boer population- in the British created concentration camps & the conclusion of the Anglo-Boer War & also when wealthy Afrikaner & Britons began to impose their culture & hegemony in the defeated Boer Republics.
Destroying the farming community would certainly qualify as destroying the culture & livelihood of the Boer group.
Furthermore: there were about 53 000 Boer farmers in 1991. Now there are only about less than 35 000.
The statisitcs speak for themselves. The Boer farmers have been reported as the most at risk group for being killed in the world. Continuing to downplay the significance of this escalating genocide does not deter from the realities of it nor does it detract from the prominent anti genocide activists who have spoken out against the situation.
- Sorry, I disagree. Most of your sources are biased, inaccurate and based on the word of a few pro-afrikaners (i don't care what Hitchens says either). You didn't answer b) at all (Boers belong to a particular period of SA history and you are relly talking about Afrikaners. There is no 'marxist' conspiracy and the ANC is definatly not Marxist. Please DO NOT fill my talk page with this right-wing garbage! I have already told you once. -max rspct 11:57, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
I have responded in depth to all of the above in my talk page. While a few of the sources I used to demonstrate my point were of a neo conservative Christian persuasion -ie: World Net Daily.com- thea fact of the matter is that all of the other sources: CBS News, the London Telegraph, Censorbugbear & Genocide Watch can not be considered biased as such. Gregory Stanton of Genocide Watch has asserted that the attacks & killing of Boer farmers is a genocide - not just the others. In fact the others have simply taken his lead. Stanton states the Boer killings & attacks is a genocide under the Genocide Convention.
The Boers do not simply belong to a period of Southern African (South Africa did not exist before 1910) history but to the modern era as well as a significant number have continued to exist & still exist to this very day as Boers. There have been people self identifying as Boers all through the 20th century & still today even in cities.
I find it most surreal how you claim to disdain " right wing" sources -yet you perpetuate the right wing notion that the all of the Boers are all Afrikaners. Remember: it was elements on the right which promoted the unification of the White Afrikaans speakers by promoting the term Afrikaner which was by applied to all the White (& later Coloured) Afrikaans speakers.
The very macro state of South Africa itself which you seemingly defend was created by right wing British imperial forces & the South Africa Act which was established in 1909 & created a single centralized administration over all of the regions peoples & nations which was the political cornerstone of Apartheid after the British created pass laws (which were based on the internal passport system of Russia) has not been repealed.
The Boers were mainly an agrarian & anti macro Capitalist people. The same can not be said of the people who were from the Western Cape & who were in the driver's seat of the Afrikaner designation. While the term Afrikaner was sporadically used since 1707 -beginning with the French Huguenots were viewed themselves as "African" after fleeing Europe as refugees & arriving at the Cape- the fact of the matter is that it was not widely used until after the Anglo-Boer War when the estranged Western Cape cousins of the republican Boers began to usurp their identity as a means of creating a political device in order to overwhelm the English speakers in the political realm as a unified force as the total White Afrikaans population was greater than the total White English speaking population.
The Broederbond (the once secret society of Afrikaans nationalist promoters) & the National Party were the main political proponents of the Afrikaner designation which aimed at unifying the disparate White Afrikaans communities which were mainly divided between the formerly known Cape Dutch of the Western Cape & the Boer of trekker descent.
When Afrikaner nationalists attempted to change the national flag (1927 - 1994 compromise flag) of South Africa during the 1960s: they wanted "a clean flag" that not only did not have the hated British flag in the design but also one that did not have the Boer Republic flags of the Transvaal Republic & the Orange Free State. The Afrikaners were almost as intent on erradicating Boer culture as the British were & current neo colonial rulers are. Let's make no mistake about it: the current rulers are just as neo colonial as the old regimes were as they are in a surrogate colonial role administrating an artificial British created colonial construct which only benifits the ruling elites. States -particulary macro States tend to do so due to their natural inertia & the inherent monopolistic political hegemony their administrations have over the region.
[edit] Lenin rv
Right-o~ I reverted to myself. And learned that worse than vandals are well-meaning anons that revert spotted vandalism in the intro, but miss screwed things downtext. That's why this went unnoticed for this long time. mikka (t) 16:50, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
