Talk:Maximus the Confessor

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	Maximus the Confessor is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do.
	This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 13, 2007.
Article milestones Date Process Result February 6, 2007 Peer review Reviewed February 18, 2007 Good article nominee Listed March 15, 2007 Featured article candidate Promoted Current Status: Featured article

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Contents 1 Urgent Protection 2 Quotes 3 Peer Review 4 GA nom on hold 5 Recognized as a Good Article 6 His death 7 Dead external links found 8 Various Qs from a casual reader

[edit] Urgent Protection

Someone had put an extremely objectionable picture on this page. I request protection on an urgent basis 69.151.26.36 15:19, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Quotes

I am moving these unreferenced quotes here. They would add to the article, but unfortunately, whomever found them did not provide citations for them. Please add citations if you know where they came from. -- Pastordavid 03:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

He is said to have exclaimed: "I have the faith of the Latins, but the language of the Greeks."^{[citation needed]}

His remarks in 634 are very revealing of the nature of the invading Saracen forces, which he describes as being Jewish, providing first-hand corroboration for the thesis of modern historians who have determined that Islam began as a Judeo-Christian sect.

What could be more dire than the present evils now encompassing the civilized world? To see a barbarous nation of the desert overrunning another land as if it were their own, to see our civilization laid waste by wild and untamed beasts who have merely the shape of a human form. These “beasts are Jews and followers of Antichrist. Repentance by Christians is what is needed to repulse the invaders.

Letter written from Alexandria between 634 and 640.^{[citation needed]}

[edit] Peer Review

I have requested a peer review of this article, looking for ways to improve it. Comments can be left on the peer review page. Thanks, -- Pastordavid 10:53, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA nom on hold

Very good article. I almost passed it, but I would like to see a little clarification/expansion. The article is well-reference and well-written. However, there is a grammatical error in the first line of the "Trial and exile" section. The "legacy" section should be expanded. It says he has been overlooked in the West until recently. How has he been recognized in recent years, by whom and in what context? Also in what year was he sainted? Besides these few minor points, it's a good article. Address these concerns and leave a message here when completed and the review will procede. If nothing is done in a reasonable period of time the article could fail it's nomination.--William Thweatt ^Talk | ^Contribs 05:40, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Fixed the grammatical error. Mrhsj 06:28, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I have added a para. on Maximus' veneration/acclamation (he is a pre-congregation saint in the Western tradition; i.e., no formal process of beatification/canonization), as well as noting those facts in the info box. So as not to distract from the primary content of the article, I include detailed info about the east/west differences in the notes. -- Pastordavid 00:40, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recognized as a Good Article

Thanks to everybody for your work so far. Some ways to further improve the article might include expansion of the "legacy" section to include any modern studies, opinions, etc. concerning his relevance to the modern Christian and some general fleshing out of the details of the other sections.--William Thweatt ^Talk | ^Contribs 03:40, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] His death

Is it proper to state that Maximus died of "natural causes" after being "tortured, having his tongue cut out and his right hand cut off"? (I suspect that by "natural causes" this is in contrast to death from murder.) Considering his age, I'd have to suspect that the physical abuse he received must have contributed to his death. I suspect that it would be better to simply write that he died. -- llywrch 04:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Also in this area he is noted "having his tongue cut out, so he could no longer speak his rebellion", which I guess the last part is a quote, because it is not a very encyclopedic term, so either should be clearly marked as a quote, or some other more neutral term used. --81.150.229.68 14:21, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Why not simply "so he could no longer speak," to sound less like hagiography? -- OtherDave 19:38, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

But for once, we are writing about a saint. MaxVeers 22:48, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

True enough -- though I was using hagiography in the sense of unthinking adulation. I think it's good to give the reader some credit (or some space to make up his or her own mind). Just a suggestion. I realize you have plenty of work to undo article-of-the-day damage. -- OtherDave 10:45, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dead external links found

Two (2) links were detect as requiring assistance, Catholic Forum and Maximus Confessor returned a HTTP 404 status message. —Dispenser 19:25, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Various Qs from a casual reader

The current lead says "his positions eventually resulted in exile, soon after which he died." As I read the full article, I'm not sure how many exiles there were.

The Trial and exile section says Maximus was "brought back" to Constantinople, then "sent back into exile for four more years." I don't see the word "exile" earlier (though I may have missed it), so I'm unclear how this constitutes "more" years.

When this is clearer, I'd urge reworking the lead slightly along these lines:

...He was twice tried for [convicted of?] heresy and exiled, dying shortly after the second trial.

(This eliminates two instances of "soon after" in adjoining sentences.)

Unrelated Q: in the paragraph about Pope Martin, I'm not sure if I understand the last sentence. I don't know this topic and can't fill in the blanks, so rather that being bold, I'll just ask here whether it not be clearer written something like this:

Pope Martin was condemned [by whom?] for [heresy or whatever?], but [rather than 'and'] died before he could be sent to Constantinople, the imperial capital, for trial.

(In the following paragraph, I'd then drop "the imperial capital of" since it comes one sentence after the previous mention.)

...could have sworn I signed that. Sorry. -- OtherDave 14:45, 16 August 2007 (UTC)