User talk:Matia.gr/Archive 6

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Διακοπές στην Ελλάδα

Μονεμβασιά Σαμοθράκη Σκύρος Λίμνη Δοϊράνη - Άνω Πορόια - Λίμνη Κερκίνη Βέροια Ικαρία Άνδρος Χίος Κέρκυρα Νάξος Κρήτη Σέριφος Καστοριά - Άργος Ορεστικό Κιλκίς Αλεξανδρούπολη Ορεστιάδα - Καβύλη - Διδυμότειχο - Σουφλί


Holidays in Greece

Samothrace Veroia Andros Chios Ikaria Naxos Skyros Corfu Doirani lake, Kerkini lake, Ano Poroia Monemvasia Crete


Σελίδα Χρήστη, UserPage

This is a Wikipedia user or user talk page.

The original page is located at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Matia.gr/Archive_6.

old stuff: User talk:Matia.gr/Archive 1, Archive 2, Archive 3, Archive 4, Archive 5, Archive 6

Συζήτηση χρήστη, Αρχείο 1, 2

Contents

[edit] Koitaze akatanomastous vorious

O ektorianos ekane mia mikroallagoula sthn istoria tous. Xreiazetai yposthri3h. NikoSilver 23:20, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Maniots

The Maniots are not descendant to a mediaeval Greek population! And niether are the Arvanites or the Souliotes. Stop promoting and propagating the myth of Greek ethnic purity! Albanau 17:15, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe in "ethnic purities" but I also don't believe that they are Albanians - if you know what I mean. And yes Maniots believe they're related with ancient Spartans. talk to +MATIA 21:41, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
And the Macedonian Slavs believe that they're related with the ancient Macedonians. And where in the article did I say that they are Albanians? I don't have any source that refer them as such? According to you every population group in Greece are Greeks, even the Arvanites despite the unbelievable number of neutral sources that says they are descendant of Albanian immigrants!!? According to a tourism brochure that is very trustworthy source refer the Maniots as Byzantines and not Greeks. Allow me to point out that you have also claimed that the greatest Albanian hero Skanderbeg was of Serbian origin. Your credibility can be questioned! --Albanau 17:39, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Macedonia (region)#Dear editors,

Please take a look at it. NikoSilver 12:06, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] welcome back

from wikiholiday. Since you had participated in this discussion last November, perhaps you'd care to see some developments [1] and [2].

Also, as you had proposed that anorganos was redundant, I have deleted it.--Odysses 15:00, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually I'm still on wikibreak - that article goes well, doesn't it? Are there any specific problems? talk to +MATIA 16:35, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I hope not. Just a bit of editing and polishing of the article and putting in the right place all the sources brought in the talk page.--Odysses 17:00, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

The Minor Barnstar
I award this Barnstar to Matia for his many quiet and patient small corrections and improvements in tidying up Arvanites and Arvanitic language after the Big Storm. Lukas (T.

Thank you very much Lukas! You too deserve a Barnstar for you work there, but not a minor one :) talk to +MATIA 17:30, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

You know, the "minor" doesn't refer to "minor merits", just to "minor edits"! :-) Lukas (T.|@) 17:43, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I really like doing those edits :) talk to +MATIA 17:46, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Macedonia (region)

Don't you get it +MATIA mou?

  • First it was the size. When that didn't work:
  • Then was the Original Research thing and when that didn't work either:
  • We had the battle of politics excuse to revert the whole article because someone doesn't want to deal with the contents one-by-one. And when you re-reverted it:
  • Now we have some Greek sounding name who:
    • had he known better Greek he would have used the correct spelling,
    • signed up a few days ago,
    • has a contribution only whenever a certain pro-Skopian editor ("Macedonian"876 AKA "Igor Šterbinski", see here) discusses some controversial topic,
    • removed some parts of the Djassos version, in order to MOVE them to the "Macedonians" (ethnic group) article (as he says in the edit summary, an article that -btw- needs our attention) while, obviously, those parts disappeared on their way...
    • and also, he completely re-shaped the article removing most important details and asking everywhere for citations!

I think Latinus spotted him first here. What are we going to do about that? NikoSilver 23:06, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RFAR

I filed a request for arbitration for the naming conventions of the Macedonia related articles: Wikipedia:RFAR#Macedonia_naming_dispute. I have listed you as a party involved. Bitola 14:53, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Bitola. talk to +MATIA 14:56, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] portal:Macedonia

This portal name, insults all Macedonians in Greece, and makes problem bigger. STOP FYROM's PROPAGANDA IN WIKIPEDIA.--Makedonas 11:38, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Makedonas you are one of the best (I'll always remember those blue flag photos) contributors. Be cool and patient :) and don't let anyone anger you. talk to +MATIA 14:57, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

Please see Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Macedonia if you can. --Latinus 12:44, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Latinus. talk to +MATIA 14:43, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Ean den sou kanei kopo koita ligo to minima pou afisa ston Latinus oson afora to Monastiri. Miskin 17:16, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, yes - you should help and see Latinus's attempts to put the greek name in Bitola. Bomac 14:55, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Additions to Arvanites

Hi, thanks for your additions to the Arvanites. I'm a bit puzzled, though, about the wording of this quote: "that even today, one can find 'Arvanites, Albanian speakers who were integrated into Greek national identity as early as the first half of the nineteenth century'" - Sounds a bit weird, implying that the Arvanites from the first half of the 19th century are still around. I mean, I knew that Greeks were a long-living race, but 200-year-old Arvanites? :-) Maybe that sentence was taken a bit out of context? Lukas (T.|@) 19:36, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

This author claims that they prooved their greek-ness before 150-200 years. I've added it in quotes as it was written there. I think we should have included somewhere the phrase "their feelings of connection with Albania for the most part non-existent (Sella-Mazi 1997; Trudgill 2000)" from Trudgill 2004:5, shouldn't we? talk to +MATIA 10:08, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Good to see you back. I've rephrased the quoting a bit to get that awkward "even today" out. As for the other quote, I think we shouldn't over-do it, and a literal quote is probably not necessary, but if you want it, something along the lines of: "Sela-Mazi (1997) notes that Arvanites typically do not feel any connection with Albania".
I see you've noticed today's incident with Arianitr. These hit-and-run attacks start getting on my nerves. This guy later sent me an E-Mail "threatening" he would take his propaganda to a private website, and then my "Geek ass will be upset!" (sic). If that means he'll keep quiet here at least, that'll be something. - Anyway, maybe we really shouldn't overdo it with the pro-Greek citations. The evidence is pretty clearly laid out as it is, and there's a point from where addition of ever more evidence, even if true, may have the effect of pushing a text more into a POV corner and making it more provocative than necessary. What do you think? Lukas (T.|@) 14:11, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scanderbeg

Greetings. Please see Encyclopedia Britannica: SCANDERBEG, or ISKENDER BEY (1403-1467), known also as the Dragon of Albania, the national hero of the Albanians, was the son of John (Giovanni) Castriota, lord of Kroia and of the Mirdite country in northern Albania, and of a Servian princess named Vaisava. Doesn't this support your previous claim? --HolyRomanEmperor 14:17, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

You could look at [3] and look for other similiar searches - isn't that sufficient to source what you said previously? --HolyRomanEmperor 14:24, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

See also Skanderbeg genealogy and Montenegro. --HolyRomanEmperor 14:38, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Also, this Serbian Unity Congress and Monarchen des alten Serbien (tell me if you need translation from German).

This conglomerate of Slavo-Albanian culture: РАСТКО - СКАДАР RASTKO - SHKODЁR is a vast website containing everything on Skadar and the history of surrounding Albanian, Serbian & other peoples. It's only in Albanian and Serbian, so tell me when you need translation. --HolyRomanEmperor 14:45, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks I'll see them when possible. talk to +MATIA 10:00, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
If you see anywhere (preferably in English) Barleti's bio of Scanderbeg please let me know. Thanks. talk to +MATIA 10:24, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Sure I'll have a look. Anything specific I should look for?--Avg 11:56, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Amyntas III-161113.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Amyntas III-161113.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Wikipedia are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Wikipedia:Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this: {{TemplateName}}.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Thank you. bluemask 13:11, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I've answered on your talk page. talk to +MATIA 09:48, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification. I alreadt tagged it with {{PD-old}}. -- bluemask 10:06, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Boh8eia

Xreiazomaste boh8eia sto ar8ro gia olh thn perioxh. Exoun lyssa3ei. Balane ola ta an8ellhnika arxaia quotes, afairesan ola ta filellhnika kai zhtane pantou e3akribwseis-bibliografies. Den mporw na 3anakanw epanafora. Boh8eia. NikoSilver 13:54, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Xreiazome boh8eia sto ar8ro gia thn arxaia makedoniki glossa. Den mporw na 3anakanw epanafora. Boh8eia. --Asteraki 20:17, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

XMK seems ok - well as ok as it was before some weeks (it needs more sources or actually more facts from the sources - see bibliography and/or external links). talk to +MATIA 10:11, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thessaloniki on the Article Improvement Drive

Hey Matia, I nominated the Thessaloniki article as a candidate for the Article Improvement Drive. The article is so very close to becoming a featured article so I thought it was appropriate that it be a candidate for the AID. Please feel free to vote at the AID page here. Thanks! --Caponer 00:52, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Philhellen" = "Greek Patriot"

Matia mou, des ti apanthsa ston Septentrionalis sto Talk:Greeks#Alexander the Great. Ta idia pros8esa kai sto Philhellenism opote eykola ki wraia stelneis opoiondhpote allo amfisbhtia prokypsei na dei to ar8ro. ;-) NikoSilver 21:15, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Bravo Niko! :) talk to +MATIA 10:01, 7 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Paraklisis

File, eimai Ellinas (opos kai esi fisika) kai xriazomai afti tin stigmi ti politimotati voithia sou.

  • 1.Stin Elliniki wiki kai sigekrimena, sto arthro: Makedonas, pou einai sxedon olo, diki mou dimiourgia kai tora iparxi ipopsifiotita gia diagrafi tou arthrou stin selida [[4]]

Se parakalo para poli, ean thelis vevea kai exis tin kalosini, na psifisis gia tin paramoni kai mi diagrafi tou arthrou. Sigekrimena stin selida [[5]] na psifisis os exis:

  • διατήρηση και να μπει το πρότυπο {{disputed}}. ας αφήσουμε όποιον θέλει να το προχωρήσει. --Onoma

Diladi diatirisi, ... kai to onoma sou, opos parapano!

Se parakalo para poli, ean thelis vevea kai exis tin kalosini, na psifisis gia tin paramoni kai mi diagrafi tou arthrou. Sigekrimena stin selida 21.Hellenische Sprachen na psifisis os exis:

  • Natürlich behalten --Onoma

Diladi , fisika diatirisi (=Natürlich 'behalten) kai to onoma sou, opos parapano!

Y.G. Ean thelis, mporis na metavivasis tin paraklisi mou, se alous filous kai empistous Ellines opos kai esi?

  • Parakalo pliri exemithia kai mistikotita! (Apefthinsou mono se poli empista atoma.) Efxxaristo! --Kamikazi2 13:05, 10 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Epeigon (SOS)

Xriazome-aste ti voithia sou, giati apo oti eida kseris kalitera galika apo oti ego! Koita, to arthro afto exi protathi distixos, meta apo kapies diorthosis pou ekana, gia diagrafi: w:fr:Macédoine grecque.

  • Se parakalo voithise kai kane oti mporis gia na min diagrafi!!!! --84.164.207.72 19:12, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aman pia!

Apparently you are an expert with images. I have received some useful tips from some users but my kakomiro kefali is faced with the following problem: I have some images on JPEG in my files and I want to introduce them into an article. QUESTION: how do I transfer the picture from my file, into a wikipedia image file? Euxaristw. Politis 17:38, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Very good timing. Use Special:Upload - be careful with copyright laws and write a line like [[Image:Gnu.jpg|thumb|this is the subtitle]]. talk to +MATIA 18:10, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I've already sourced (literally copy-pasted) those edit-summaries in the Talk page, but this guy's refusing to let go of his POV. This attitude won't get him anywhere however, as I'm not at all willing to give up on my edits. Miskin 13:06, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Nice but placed in the article would be more nice, I think. Take care! talk to +MATIA 13:08, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad you're back, I needed some support against POV-pushers in 'Greeks'. Yes I read French. Miskin 15:06, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] french etc

All I see is a cover sheet. Used for what purpose? Miskin 15:16, 28 March 2006 (UTC) Milas ellinika? Ap'osa diabasa mporoume na poume oti oi Kastriotes katagontan ap'tin Edessa. Miskin 15:33, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Ναι γράφουν κάτι για Ημαθία για τον Ιωάννη. Ίσως να τα μαζέψουμε όλα αυτά μαζί με άλλα για τον Ιωάννη (δες αυτό το διδακτορικό σε pdf σχετικά με τον Μουράτ Β), σε μια παράγραφο. talk to +MATIA 15:36, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kal'imera

Many of the tags I added to Greeks were requests for sources, intended as such; for example, if you have a source for the presence of Linear B in Cyprus, please do add it. I don't mind people opposing my PoV, but I am a little tired of having views ascribed to me which I do not hold. Septentrionalis 17:47, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] όλα καλά

Siggnomi gia tis allages pou ekana stous Arvanites, alla eixa tis entyposi pos to arthro eixe peiraxtei apo Albanous. Den katalabaino omos me ti kritiria les ton eggonopoulo Arbaniti. Gia ton Mpotsari kai tin Mpoumpoulina eipa apla oti thelo na do piges. Alla o Eggonopoulos exei 100% Elliniko onoma, kai an exei enan propappou i akomi ena gonea Arbaniti de simainei pos einai kai o idios. Opos eipa kai prin, fantazomai ti tha grafoun ta biblia pou tha mas ferei o Lucas, alla ksero kai ksero ti grafoun ta biblia stous Slabomakedones. Blepontas ta arthra tis wikipedia stous men kai tous de, den theoro auti tin taksinomisi tis Arvanitikis glossas dikaih. Kata ti gnomi mou einai geleio to oti enas Ellinas Arvanitis den exei kamia elpida na ginei antiprosopos tou arthrou tou. Kaneis den pisteuei to bathmo afomiosis ton arbaniton ki etsi oloi tha ton perasoun gia Ellina. Autos einai o monos logos gia ton opoio to Slabomakedoniko POV pernaei etsi aparatirita, kai blepeis na bazoune sto arthro tous "related ethnic groups: South Slavs". Miskin 11:55, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Φίλε μου, όπως σου έγραψα ο ίδιος έλεγε ότι ήταν Αρβανίτης - δεν τον βάφτισα εγώ. Πολλοί λένε ότι ήταν και ο Κολοκοτρώνης αλλά από τα απομνημονεύματά του δεν είδα κάτι τέτοιο (αν και είχες καλές σχέσεις με τους Αρβανίτες και κακές με τους Τουρκαλβανούς). Κατά τα άλλα συμφωνώ μαζί σου, εξάλλου όπως γράφει και ο Λεβί που ανέφερα στους Αρβανίτες, είχαν αφομοιωθεί ήδη από το 19ο αιώνα (1821, αν όχι νωρίτερα), θεωρούσαν εαυτούς Έλληνες κτλ. Ο Λουκάς είναι εντάξει τύπος, άσχετα με τυχόν διαφωνίες που μπορεί να υπάρξουν. talk to +MATIA 12:00, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Den se amfisbitisa, kai den iksera kan oti ta eixes grapsei esy. S'auti tin periptosi o Eggonopoulos einai o monos Arbanitis me Elliniko onoma pou gnorizo. Gia ton Kolokotroni ego to eixa sigouro oti itan Arbanitis, periergo pou de brikes tipota. Miskin 13:15, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Έγινε φίλε μου και συγνώμη αν ξέφυγε νωρίτερα ο τόνος μου. talk to +MATIA 14:18, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New User:Kutlesh

Hi Matia, you may want to look at User talk:Kutlesh, the new guy whose changes to the Mak articles you reverted. I've given him a welcome and explained a few things. I agree with you about the dab notice, of course, just let's not be biting the newbies. Lukas (T.|@) 09:03, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I didn't bite him, I just reverted him :) talk to +MATIA 09:05, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] With pleasure

Hi Matia :-) As concerns, Skanderbeg, I must confess I'm not a great expert about this; but I'll do what I can, so I've added it to my watchlist. As for translating pieces of Macedon from the French (the Institutions section, more exactly), this was an idea I had partly started, before I was taken by another project, but I always thought it should be finished. I'd love to complete the translation, but my English is far from perfect, so somebody should check my orthography and syntax.--Aldux 15:02, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Perhaps I could help too with the english. talk to +MATIA 06:21, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FYROM (again)

There is great POVish attitude of the Skopian side, not to include the name FYROM in the intro paragraph. I have presented my case in the talk. You are welcome to comment.  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 22:31, 3 April 2006 (UTC)


Σχετικά με το παραπάνω, πρέπει να δεις αυτό το σχόλιο και να πράξεις αναλόγως. Άμεσα.  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 16:20, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Σχετικά με το παραπάνω, πρέπει να δεις αυτό και αυτό και να πράξεις αναλόγως. Thanks. --Enas Filos 21:50, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ref converter

Just a note, after you use the ref converter it brings up an "edit page" link back to Wikipedia, and if you follow that it automatically fills in the edit summary. Just thought you might want to know. --Cyde Weys 07:10, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Cyde, it's a perfect tool and it helped me notice that an article had a problem with it's ref (the notes were numbered +1 after some point and the ref's were messed during the first conversion). talk to +MATIA 07:11, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image Tagging for Image:Verginasun.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Verginasun.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 10:28, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

The image was created in black (with white background) by user Zikander under the GNU license.
Apparently some admin have deleted the original page (I can't see it in Zikander's contribs). I've just coloured and re-uploaded the image under the same license. See also User_talk:Zikander#Verginasun.jpg. talk to +MATIA 13:19, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for clarifying that. The image is currently stored on Wikimedia Commons ([6]), so you should update the image description page there to include this information. --Carnildo 18:43, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Thank you very much for your reply. The problem is that I don't remember what was written in the description and when Zikander created it (perhaps I could give a guess of when I've modified it). Can you see (as an admin) the deleted version of the image at en:WP? talk to +MATIA 10:36, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
You'll have to ask someone else. I'm not presently an admin. --Carnildo 07:05, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Apanthsa sto talk mou katw ap'to sxolio sou. NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 11:16, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poll

Όπως ξέρεις, δεν είναι όλοι ευχαριστημένοι με το όνομα του άρθρου Macedonians (ethnic group). Ο Φραγκίσκος (!) πρότεινε να κάνουμε ένα δεύτερο poll ή ένα RFC (ή και τα δυο) για να βρεθεί ένα καλύτερο όνομα. Εγώ έχω προτείνει Macedonians (Slavs), για να είναι ξεκάθαρο ότι το έθνος που για το όποιο γράφουμε δεν έχει καμία σχέση με τους Αρχαίους Μακεδόνες όπως ισχυρίζονται στην εθνικιστική λογοτεχνία τους, για να μην δίνουμε την εντύπωση ότι οι Σλαβομακεδόνες έχουν κάποιο ιστορικό δικαίωμα στην Ελληνική, Βουλγαρική, Αλβανική ή Σέρβικη γη. Δυστυχώς, μερικοί αντιστέκονται με το επιχείρημα ότι δεν υπάρχει περίπτωση να μπερδέψει κανείς τους Σλαβομακεδόνες με τους Αρχαίους Μακεδόνες - αυτό αλήθεια είναι, αλλά είναι άσχετο. Αυτό που θέλουμε να αποτρέψουμε είναι να νομίζει ο κόσμος ότι οι Σλαβομακεδόνες είναι οι απόγονοι (κληρονόμοι κλπ) των Αρχαίων Μακεδόνων (για τους λόγους που είπα πριν). Τώρα φαίνεται ότι θα κάνουμε RFC ρωτώντας πώς θα λυθεί το πρόβλημά μας (αν υποθέσουμε ότι υπάρχει, γιατί οι Σλαβομακεδόνες ισχυρίζονται ότι δεν υπάρχει). Η συζήτηση είναι στο Talk:Macedonians (ethnic group). Επί της ευκαιρίας, μπορείς να κάνεις επαναφορά στο άρθρο για την πόλη του Μοναστηριού. Δεν είναι δίκαιο να έχουν αυτοί τα δικά τους ονόματα σε Ελληνικές πόλεις (για ιστορικούς λόγους) και να μην έχουμε εμείς τα δικά μας στους δικούς τους για τους ίδιους λόγους. Telex 11:26, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Δεν έχεις και άδικο για τον τίτλο του άρθρου - εννοείται τώρα δεν "έχουν" πρόβλημα. Όσο για το Μοναστήρι έχει ξεχωριστή παράγραφο, ίσως θα έπρεπε να αλλάξουμε κάτι εκεί κι όχι στην αρχή του άρθρου - τι λες; talk to +MATIA 11:31, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Ή ίσως θα έπρεπε να σβήσουμε το Σλάβικο όνομα από τα άρθρα για την Φλώρινα, την Καστοριά, την Έδεσσα, την Κορυτσά κλπ. Telex 11:36, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Αρχίσαν τα ίδια πάλι στα μακεδονίτικα άρθρα; Τι να πω... talk to +MATIA 11:38, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Το είχαν βάλει και στο άρθρο για το Λευκό Πύργο της Θεσσαλονίκης με το όνομα "Μακεδονικά". Telex 11:41, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Και ξέρεις, όταν βάλαμε το Αλβανικό όνομα του κράτους τους στο σχετικό άρθρο και πορτάλ, έκαναν σαν τρελοί. Αφού σύμφωνα με το σύνταγμά τους, όλες οι γλώσσες που μιλιούνται από πάνω από είκοσι τοις εκατό του συνολικού πληθυσμού είναι επίσημες γλώσσες. Σύμφωνα με την τελευταία απογραφή, εικοσιπέντε τοις εκατό μιλούσαν Αλβανικά - άρα τα Αλβανικά είναι επίσημη γλώσσα (και η Βριτάννικα το επιβεβαιώνει). Telex 11:48, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Αστα να πάνε... Τώρα έχουμε και Minority groups in Greece το οποίο αναφέρει και τους Αρβανίτες που ασχολείσαι παρεπιπτόντως...  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 11:50, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Είχα διαβάσει το κείμενο της συμφωνίας της Οχρίδας και νομίζω έλεγε για επίσημη γλώσσα σε τοπικό επίπεδο κι όχι σε κρατικό, αλλά μπορεί να έχετε και δίκαιο. talk to +MATIA 12:08, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Δες Ohrid Agreement. Telex 12:10, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your move of Minority groups in Greece

Sorry Matia, I don't agree with your page move there. In my view there's no reason to avoid the term "minority" in that article and its title. This is English, and in English the term "minority" doesn't have the negative connotations (politically separate group potentially illoyal to the state, etc.) that it has in Greek. All these groups are commonly referred to as minorities in English as a matter of course, in a politically innocuous sense. Would you mind moving it back? Lukas (T.|@) 12:00, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Lukas. I thought I did the right thing when I moved it, but as I see you disagree. I've left a message at the article talk page, but the more I think about it, I think it should be merge+redirected to Demographics of Greece. talk to +MATIA 12:06, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Saints Wikiproject

I noted that you have been contributing to articles about saints. I invite you to join the WikiProject Saints. You can sign up on the page and add the following userbox to your user page.

This user is a member of the Saints WikiProject.


Thanks! --evrik 16:15, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Need for translator (fr --R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) 06:23, 23 May 2006 (UTC)to en)

Regarding this book-

Certainly. Most of it appears in a choppy, fragmented style which French historical narratives sometimes use, or it could suggest that it is the translation from an earlier source. A map would also be very useful to help with some of the place names, most of which I cannot translate properly. But I'll give it a try:

Book one

(Following the) conquest of Macedonia by (Sultan) Murad II - (which was) his first incursion into Epirus.- Jean Castriota, Lord of Sfetigrad and the valleys (vales) of the Dibres, was obligated to deliver his four sons as hostages to him (the Sultan). The eldest of them, George -(Whom) Murad had instructed in the religion of Muhammad. - (showed) remarkable qualities (and) the apptitude of a young, warrior prince.- His courage (and) his exploits earned him the surname of Scanderberg.-(after the) Death of Jean Castriota.- Murad annexed his domains. - (earning him) resentment from Scanderberg.-(he was) later approached by the Albanian chiefs to lead. -They revolted- and proclaimed Albanian independence. But the Turks retook their fortified places, and summoned to Alessio all the Christian princes and captains of the land (surrounding countryside).

In the 15th century, various indepenant lords held possession of Albania once again. The leader (head) and the most powerful of all, (was) Jean Castriota, from an ancient and brave people originating in Emathie*, below Macedonia.

  • Actually a district of Moghlena. This area was bordered by Axius and Erigon to the northwest; to the east Lyncestide; to the south Haliacmon. Edesse (Eddessa?), today's Vodina, was its principle town.

Hope this helps:> Regards, --R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) 02:18, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. talk to +MATIA 07:06, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
No problem:) If you would like more French translations, please let me know.--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) 06:23, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scanderbeg

All the question is considerably problematic. Malachi speaks of "John Castriota, who ruled over Matia (Mat) in Albania". Now Matia and Emathia are simply to close to be diferent things. Matia seems to refer to the valley of the river Mat; and I think it's a bit far fetched to say he gave the name to the river. I suspect made his statement on the basis of the existence in Strabo of Emathia, and speculated on a migration from Emathia to Matia. We certainly need a second source to confirm what Paganel says, and I can't find anything, which I find suspect. Also, Britannica calls John "Prince of Emathia", in northern Albania; confirmed by a primary source Paolo Giovio, that writes in the 16th century of Skanderbeg figlio del S. Ivan Castrioth, che signoreggiava quella parte di Albania, la qual si chiama Emathia et Tumenstia (son of Ivan Castrioth, who ruled over that part of Albania that is called Emathia and Tumenstia)--Aldux 17:19, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category Deletion

Please visit [7] and weigh in!  NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 17:45, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Souliotes

Hi Matia, could you take a look at Souliotes? There is a discussion about how "Albanian" they were. I think you had some sources about them in the context of the Arvanites article, right? Because I see you have Botsaris included there in the famous Arvanites list. Question is, would they qualify as "Arvanites", "Christian Chams", or both, or what? Also, there is an issue about an alleged ethnic continuity to an ancient tribe of that area, the "Selloi". Do your sources say anthing about that? Cheers, -- Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:56, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Are the Tsakonians ancient Spartans? Maybe yes, maybe not.
In Suli lived (non-Arvanites) Greek Epirots, (Greek) Arvanites - like Botsaris, Tzavelas and one more guy from a famous phara - the descendants of those three wrote the Arvanitic Manifesto and founded the Arvanitic League of Greece, and some phares of Muslim Albanians (Τουρκαλβανοί) who, as all historians agree, betrayed the rest Suliots and helped Ali Pasha... The Suliots - like the Arvanites - felt Greeks, but also had a connection with the Skipetars (Sp. Trikoupis describes the end of the Greek-Albanian alliance and the surprise of the Suliots when they were betrayed by the Albanians).
I wouldn't describe all the Suliots as Arvanites, even though most (or many) of the phares at Suli were Arvanitic (there were also non-Arvanites Epirots there). talk to +MATIA 17:02, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your comments! Here's another one: Do you happen to know the relationship between Andreas Miaoulis (the 1821 admiral) and Athanasios Miaoulis (the mid-19th cent. prime minister)? They are both in your Arvanites list, and we now have articles on both, but they aren't linked with each other. Father and son, or something like that? Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:49, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes, you are right (I've added that Andreas was his son). talk to +MATIA 05:46, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POLL

No, no, no, not what you think! This time is for something that all of us need:

Improvement of the <ref> function.

Please weigh in at Wikipedia talk:Footnotes#Poll! NikoSilver  (T) @ (C) 12:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Geia. Exo mia apli erotisi. Nomizeis oti oi Arbanites itan Ellines; Eav i apantisi sou einai "nai" tote apantise auto to munhma. Exo simantikes plirofories pou mporoun na se voithisoun. Xana, apantise auto to munhma otan mporeseis. Avtio. Deucalionite 23:45, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Nai file mou. talk to +MATIA 06:05, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Information

Hi Matia. I completely understand if you are currently displeased with Wikipedia. Trust me, I know the feeling. There have been many times that I had to deal with users who were so sociologically blind to reality that even a three-year-old could point it out. However, I think the information I have may cheer you up. Now, I do not know if you ever came across this article before, but in case you didn't take a look at the link below.

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:o48PUPW5nv0J:ta-nea.dolnet.gr/print_article.php

If you look carefully at the content, then you will be able to find information that indicates that the Arvanites were in fact Greeks.

Here is an interesting piece of information:Οι "terribili stradioti" ήταν "Έλληνες και Αρβανίτες Έλληνες". Χειρίζονταν κοντές λόγχες, τόξα, ελαφρά σπαθιά, ήταν ελαφρά θωρακισμένοι και δρούσαν ως ειδικά σώματα επιχειρήσεων [The bold text was a quote from Jacomo Barbarigo's letter to the Germans in 1479].

Here is another interesting tidbit of information: Ο Μιχαήλ Ράλλης Δρίμης θα πολεμήσει στην Φερράρα αρχηγός (capo) 200 stradioti, ο Πέτρος Μπούας στις Δαλματικές Ακτές και στο Φόρνοβο. Ανάμεσα στις διάφορες αιτιάσεις για την ήττα, ο proveditore Marco Barbarigo θα γράψει στη Γερουσία [ca. 1471] πως "οι Έλληνες και οι Αρβανίτες δεν είναι παρά ένας λαός που μισεί κάθε ξένο".

Here is an interesting source if you ever manage to find it: "Greek Arvanites and Albanians: two different ethnies", Kyriakatiki Avgi, 17th Dec. 2000 (Athens, Greece)

So, there seems to be evidence and sources that indicate that the Arvanites were not Albanians irrespective of whatever language they spoke. You need to emphasize the realistic fact that language does not define ethnicity (especially during Ottoman times). Languages are socially constructed entities only meant to provide a means for two or more individuals to communicate with one another. However, I expect Future Perfect at Sunrise or some other sociologically blind user to probably consider such an emphasis on your part as "utter nonsense". Just be careful since such users take everything at face value and never think in a somewhat rationally flexible manner.

If you need anything else, then all you have to do is just ask and I will be more than happy to oblige. In the meantime, I will check around for more sources and other interesting bits of information that may be useful to you. Take care. Over and out. Deucalionite 16:31, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much Deucalionite. Barbarigo is mentioned by Biris too and I was thinking of adding it at some point. talk to +MATIA 05:46, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A Simple Favor

Hi Matia. I was wondering if you could help me. For the past few days, I have been trying to acquire information about the stradioti, but I ultimately failed. If it is alright with you, could you please look into Biris' work and tell me what he states about Jacomo Barbarigo or Marco Barbarigo in regards to the Arvanites or the stradioti? I would really appreciate it. A full citation of Biris' statements would be most helpful. Respond whenever you can. Thank you and take care. Deucalionite 13:59, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

There's some interesting information about the everyday life and military role of the stradioti in the Wright dissertation, some of it quoting Barbarigo. And of course the Pappas article is a very good summary. If what you are looking for is information about the ethnic composition of the stradioti, you won't find much that you'll like: everybody calls them Albanians; nowhere any hint at the existence of a Greek-Arvanite group distinct from Albanians proper. As for the two supposed Barbarigo quotes you wanted to use, the first one ("Greeks and Arvanite Greeks") you will hardly find, it's evidently not a quote at all - just sloppy unmotivated use of quote marks by the newspaper writer. I have no idea why you thought it would be from Barbarigo. As for the other, my suspicion is that the newspaper writer has mixed up the first names of the Barbarigos - it could very well be from Jacomo Barbarigo, the provveditore who wrote those dispatches a few years before Bartolomeo Minio, but Marco Barbarigo was a Doge, why would he have written reports about Arvanites?
On a different note, I'll ask Aldux which of the three name forms is most appropriate: "Jacomo", "Giacomo", or "Jacopo". All three seem to be attested. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:03, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Though I appreciate the help Future Perfect, I was specifically asking Matia for something. Matia possesses a source I most definitely do not have. If you had the source I was looking for, then I would be asking help from you. Now that you are here you have two options. You can either help me by providing the information I asked for or you could dismiss my request and figure out something else to do. Besides, there are sources that do show Albanians and Arvanites as two distinct groups even though outsiders assumed both groups to be one and the same due to language similarities. Once again, language does not define ethnicity (a basic lesson yet to be learned by many). I already read the Wright dissertation, which served its purpose helping me to write specifically the Bartolomeo Minio article. I already read the Pappas article (quite interesting and very informative), but the content followed a Western European paradigm of analysis. This particular article is not enough. What I am trying to do Future Perfect is simply acquire information about the stradioti from people closest to them (and from there analyze things in a sociologically contextual fashion). If you assume that I am specifically looking for information that proves that the Arvanites were not Albanians, then believe whatever you want. I have strong sociological and historical reasons why the Arvanites were not Albanians irrespective of what anyone says. Though I am already aware of the arguments presented by those who believe the Arvanites to be Albanians, those arguments are still heavily based on linguistics. As for the quotes, I am still working on clarifying them. In the meantime, I am taking the initiative and asking for information. I will not change the Stratioti article until I acquire what I am looking for. Deucalionite 20:54, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Matia told me he won't be online much these days. If you want info specifically about Biris, you could ask Telex, I think he has the book. Matia might not have that easy access to it right now, from what I understand. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:16, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
We shall see how things turn out. Deucalionite 21:44, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] and another Poll...

Hi. There's a debate about how much "X-ian" one must be in order to be considered "X-American" (or X-Yian for that matter) and be categorized as such. The poll is here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Rules for lists of X-Americans. Kindly weigh in! :NikoSilver: 22:04, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Macedonia (terminology)

Well, that'll be the first article we're not bitching too much about! :-) :NikoSilver: 22:12, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Κάτι σαν το Image:LocationMacedonia-REG-1-z.png αλλά με τον "μεγάλο" ορισμό (Σερβία, Αλβανία, Θράκη κτλ) θα ήταν ωραίο νομίζω. Μπράβο σας, κάνατε καλή δουλειά. talk to +MATIA 12:04, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Invitation to join Wikipedia:WikiProject Eastern Orthodoxy

Hi there! I've noticed that you've edited articles pertaining to the Eastern Orthodox Church. I wanted to extend an invitation to you to join the WikiProject dedicated to organizing and improving articles on the subject, which can be found at: WikiProject Eastern Orthodoxy. This WikiProject was begun because a need was perceived to raise the level of quality of articles on Wikipedia which deal with the Eastern Orthodox Church.

You can find information on the project page about the WikiProject, as well as how to join and how to indicate that you are a member of the project. Additionally, you may be interested in helping out with our collaboration of the month. I hope you'll consider joining and thank you for your contributions thus far! —A.S. Damick talk contribs 19:34, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Just fishin...

...Like the bait? -> Wikipedia:WikiProject History of Greece#Members •NikoSilver• 22:24, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Was wondering

are in any way related to Chios or http://www.e-xios.gr/ (GIorgos) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.202.75.20 (talk) 18:47, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] When Kolokotronis became an Arvanite??????

Someone added Kolokotronis in the list of Arvanites...Haven't you ever read his memoirs??? I ask who ever added him to bring prooves,because I live in Arcadia and I don't know when Limbovitsi or Roupaki became Arvanitic villages... Please reedit this mistake. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.218.78.229 (talk) 15:09, 27 December 2006 (UTC).