User talk:Matanariel

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents

[edit] Welcome

Welcome!

Hello, Matanariel, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  --Haham hanuka 09:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GS groups

I didn't mean to imply that they were funded by the GSSC, but that these groups were strongly associated with, or consisted mostly of, or were lead primarly by GS students. I could change it(or add an introduction if you want). Adc718 15:21, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

From the GS website:

Student activities at the School of General Studies are primarily created and managed by students. The Dean of Students Office supports the activities of a variety of student clubs and organizations within GS through advising, leadership training and publicity. Several active student groups including The Observer (a GS literary magazine), the Columbia Producers and Directors Club, the Columbia Dramatists, and MilVets originated within GS and continue to be under the leadership of GS students, while open to all students at the University. Any student interested in forming a new organization is encouraged to contact the Dean of Students Office. Throughout the year, the office as well as the student organizations within the School host a variety of activities designed to enhance the intellectual experience at Columbia.

Adc718 15:31, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi Abc. Looks good. If the GS DOS website says their are GS groups, who am I do say otherwise. Matan 18:58, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barnard jokes

The material has been rv by User:Harro5, and I've put a warning on the CU talk page, thanks jimfbleak 07:18, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

also see User talk:160.39.168.58 jimfbleak 07:26, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
ThankSs! Matan 16:03, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for reverting the blanking, this guy has only vandalism contributions, so I've blocked him for a month. jimfbleak 15:52, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Sure thing. You should also change the number of times your page was deleted from "4" to "5"... Matan 19:02, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Columbia University

Re your message: No problem. Thanks for helping out. =) -- Gogo Dodo 04:35, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Thanks

Hi, Thanks! How long do you spend on wikipedia and how many posts do you create / edit? How many editors are there on wikipedia? Oh, and how do I earn stars and create a nice userpage? (are there any "pre-filled" userboxes, good user pages to look at for ideas or templates?)... just trying a few things out in this post like help boxes(i've made quite a few edits - can you have a quick look at my contributions and give me some feedback?

[edit] Helpme

How long do you spend on wikipedia and how many posts do you create / edit? How many editors are there on wikipedia? Oh, and how do I earn stars and create a nice userpage? (are there any "pre-filled" userboxes, good user pages to look at for ideas or templates?)... just trying a few things out in this post like help boxes(i've made quite a few edits - can you have a quick look at my contributions and give me some feedback? Thanks -- HiraV 19:29, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi HiraV. The {{HelpMe}} template made me aware of your post, which mostly is directed at Matanariel. A lot of your questions not specifically directed to Matanariel can be answer from Wikipedia:Edit count. From this link, I see that you've made 22 edits. I'll let Matanariel address the remaining questions. -- Jreferee 19:58, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Thank you Jreferee. HiraV, I enter Wikipedia daily, mostly to monitor some articles and occasionally to ad to others. I don't know how many active editors are currently on Wikipedia... but the community is very large now. Stars are usually awarded by one editor to another for various good wiki-actions. After you spend some time here, you, too, may earn one. And as for the userboxes, you can add them to your page. Check out Wikipedia:Userboxes for more info on those. I'll take a look at your edits and see what I can do in terms of feedback. Best, Matan 00:42, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
What do you think of my userpage now? HiraV (talk) 22:56, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Looks very good! Matan (talk) 23:45, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiproject Columbia University

Hey Matan, I just created the Wikiproject Columbia University. You expressed interest to be a part of it so I am giving you a heads up. you can find it at WP:Columbia. It's really barebones right now but with your's and others' help we can really expand it and make it fully functional. Please forward this to any other Columbia Wikipedian you know. Kol tuv, --Valley2city₪‽ 06:59, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

Thanks, I'm in! Matan 00:58, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] disputed banner

This may be the best sourced tradition on the entire page, I think the banner should be removed. I also think that the traditions should be made a page of its own, as it does not really fit in with a standard university article. ILikeHowMuch 03:24, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi ILikeHowMuch,
Let me start by giving a short history of where this disputed section came from. An anonymous user created an article by the name of “Barnard jokes.” The article was quickly deleted for violating various Wikipedia policies (not having attack articles, not having an article for something made up in school, etc. The article was similar to the current "tradition" section, although it had less external links and more “examples” of jokes aimed at BC students. Following the article’s deletion, the anonymous user attempted to re-insert the text into the main Columbia article, under the “Traditions” section. This was also removed. But the anonymous user was persistent, and so I declared this section disputed.
Now, let me explain my two main reasons for why this section should not appear in the Columbia University article, or in any other Wikipedia article:
First, this is not a tradition. Do some students at Columbia make jokes at BC students? Yes. Does that quality as a “tradition”? No. Columbia students make fun of SEAS students, of black students, of Jewish students, of athletes, of Republicans, of Democrats, of the University administration, of… well, you get my point. The fact that incidents of all the above exist (and can be proven) does not mean a tradition exists. What does quality as a tradition? The Varsity Show happens every year, for over 100 years. The University President lights the tress in a ceremony every year. These are traditions. They happen on a regular basis, over a long period of time, and have a significance to the University community. The CUMB gathering at Butler for Orgo Night is a tradition. The subject of a joke used occasionally does not qualify as "tradition."
Second, this so-called “tradition” is not sourced. The user who wrote this section is trying very hard to prove it is true by providing external links. But if you read these links, you will see that they do not prove such a tradition exists. They all surround the same time period that involves a CUMB Orgo Night, an apology, a Varsity Show parody, and a Spec editorial that uses all these to discuss the various social gaps within the university community. All this proves is that in 2004 jokes were made on one specific night. None of these say anything about a "tradition."
I hope you see my points and that instead of asking to remove the banner, you will join me in having that entire section removed. Sincerely, Matan 02:20, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
I really can't say that I agree. I went to Columbia and have been involved in the community since (I live in the area), and the Barnard jokes are certainly of a higher prevelance than SEAS, Jewish or Black jokes. I think any Columbia University student would know what you are talking about if you mentioned a "Barnard Joke" to them, while any person outside of the community would not really know what it is.
I really find it surprising that you are so strongly opposed to this. I know some people don't like them, but to deny their existence and significance goes somewhat beyond the scope of this project. Thats why I think the banner should be removed ILikeHowMuch 23:27, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Then we disagree, and therefore have a disputed section. Have a great week, Matan 23:55, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


I guess the article did not get deleted? who nominated it for deletion? I just moved the traditions out of the main Columbia Article bacause I thought they should be separate. Do you agree? ILikeHowMuch (talk) 08:41, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I nominated it to be deleted, and you can read the discussion from the link on the talk page. Please don't add the jokes sections, a sit is not a tradition, and inappropriate for this encyclopedia. Matan (talk) 02:00, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Barnard Jokes #2

Matan, Are you a Columbia Student? Because I am. If you are not a Columbia student, then you should take my word (and the word of the marching band and its famous Orgo Night skits, and the word of the Columbia Spectator) that Barnard Jokes stand in a different place than "Columbia College Jokes" or "School of General Studies Jokes." Anybody in this campus would recognize this. If you ARE a columbia student, or if you were one in the past, then you are either blind to what is going on around you, or you simply don't like Barnard Jokes and are using your superior Wikipedia status to enforce you POV.

I have read all the discussions, and all I can conclude is that some people (but mainly just you) don't like this tradition. I really know very little about the innerworkings of wikipedia (certainly know less than you) but you opinon is not the only thing that counts. In fact, your opinion does not really count for anything, as it is simply your POV.ILikeHowMuch (talk) 19:58, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I am sorry you consider my edits POV, but they are not. An incident where someone made a joke, or even a series of incidents, does not make for a tradition. Let’s compare this to other things at Columbia.
In October 2007, an African American professor was a target of a hate crime (http://www.columbiaspectator.com/?q=node/27343).
In September 2007, a racist graffiti was found in SIPA (http://www.columbiaspectator.com/?q=node/27009).
In February 2007, someone made an homophobic graffiti at Columbia (http://www.columbiaspectator.com/?q=node/24181).
I am sure that if I keep on Googleing this, I can come up with more examples. Does this mean that Columbia University has a “tradition” of hate crimes, racist incidents, or homophobia? I don’t think so. These incidents happened, and I even sourced them. But just because I am sourcing the incidents doesn’t mean they amount to a tradition.
Another example. In the fall of 2004, students and an outside organization created a film about how professors at MELAC were biased against Jewish students and Israel and intimidated their students in the classroom (you can learn all about this by searching for “Columbia Unbecoming”). Let’s say that all the incidents in the movie were true. Does that mean that Columbia, or MELAC, have a tradition of intimidating Jewish students? Let’s say that the claims were not true, does that mean that Columbia students have a tradition of making false accusations against the faculty? The movie has interviews, it “cites” students saying their were intimidated. Columbia had a committee that rejected the greater claim of intimidation. I can cite the committee’s report. But will pointing you to a “source” or saying “everyone at Columbia know that XYZ is a tradition” prove the case?
I could keep going. I could look up any incident, or a series of incidents in Columbia’s history, and compare it to the jokes. But just because an event occurred, and that I can cite a source, does not mean a tradition exists.
Finally, I really don’t have any superior status in Wikipedia. I am just a regular editor, like you. I hope that my arguments can convince you.
Now, a question for you. Other than using an argument that is based on “I am a Columbia student, and therefore my point of view must be true,” why do you think the jokes are a tradition? And what is the importance of this issue for you?
Sincerely, Matan (talk) 16:34, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


The fact that you insist in comparing this to heinous acts of racism is a pretty clear indication of your bias and lack of NPOV.
And this is not of such importance to me, its simply a fact, which you seem to refuse to accept. Your arguments are by no means convincing, as you could claim to disprove anytihng by simply poking at sensitive areas in a group and comparing those events to what you are discussing. ILikeHowMuch (talk) 18:11, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, as I said on May 14, we disagree. If you don't like my arguments, that is your choice. But at least I am making arguments. Saying something is "fact" doesn't make it so. Matan (talk) 18:32, 16 December 2007 (UTC)