Talk:Matthew Charlton

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Good article Matthew Charlton has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
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[edit] Matthew, not Mathew

I have moved this page from Mathew Charlton to Matthew Charlton. This appears to be a mistake long overdue for correction.

See, for instance [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]

The page was created by Adam Carr. But even his Psephos site registers more hits for Matthew Charlton (9) than for Mathew Charlton (2).

I found this evidence compelling enough to make the move straight away.

Dlw22 10:59, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite

Hi, I am doing a big rewrite here - I am not just removing content, I am adding more in. Littleteddy (talk) 06:40, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Member of Parliament
for 21st Member for Northumberland in the New South Wales Legislative Assembly
In office
1904 – March 29, 1928
Preceded by John Norton
Succeeded by William Kearsley
Member of Parliament
for 3rd Member for Division of Hunter in the Parliament of Australia
In office
1910 – 1928
How was he a state and fed MP at the same time? Also why are you spending time on this article of all ALP leader articles, out of sheer curiosity? Timeshift (talk) 11:08, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Hello - no reason, really. I added some clarifying comments. I just like writing articles, I guess. Littleteddy (talk) 11:10, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Oh, by the way I thought this article fulfilled the good article criteria at WP:GA? so I submitted it. Littleteddy (talk) 11:18, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, where's the clarification? How was he a state MP 1904-1928, but also a federal MP 1910-1928?! Timeshift (talk) 13:51, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Oh, thanks, I didn't spot that. Littleteddy (talk) 01:12, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Just some notes

Hi editors. I see that this is up for WP:GA at the moment. I think that two large things are going to stand out to a reviewer.

  • There are quite a few grammer errors and redundancies. I've fiddled with two sections but it needs a thorough going over to be good prose eg:
    "Charlton threatened to resign from his post in 1915 over a dispute in government delays in granting the committee increased powers but Fisher mollified him and in 1916 Charlton proved his loyalty to the new Labor leader Billy Hughes by voting for Hughes' conscription referendum bill, even though he was vehemently opposed to conscription and fought hard against it." has redundancies, is far too long etc... "from his post" is unneeded, the sentence needs to be split into two or more parts.
  • Primarily the issue is the references, of which only web ones have been used. For a subject that pre-dates the web by so far printed works are the only way to get the article broad enough. Editors really need to read, and use, books like
    • Faulkner, John; Macintyre, Stuart (2001). True Believers: The Story of the Federal Parliamentary Labor Party. Allen & Unwin. ISBN 1865086096. 
    • Denning, Warren (1982). Caucus Crisis: The Rise & Fall of the Scullin Government. Hale & Iremonger. ISBN 0908094922. 
    • Wettenhall, R L (1964). Federal labor and the public corporation under Matthew Charlton. Labour history. 
And lots more. Definitely needs printed references - Peripitus (Talk) 08:36, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Primarily the issue is the references, of which only web ones have been used. For a subject that pre-dates the web by so far printed works are the only way to get the article broad enough. I absolutely dispute that. See Andrew Fisher GA, and to a lesser extent South Australian general election, 2006 FA. Timeshift (talk) 08:43, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Timeshift, the 2006 election was, to be blunt, in 2006, which I think does not pre-date the web. As for AF, I would not have passed this one on the basis of the lead alone - GA like FA has a wide quality spread which gives us a gloriously diverse standard. Peripitus (Talk) 12:09, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
I too dispute this claim. The Australian Dictionary of Biography was used (a print reference). Littleteddy (talk) 09:04, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
I've fixed the mistakes I can see. I also added a 'see also'. Littleteddy (talk) 09:16, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
The Australian dictionary of Biography is a tertiary, heavily edited - and quality - reference. The entry on the site refers to at least one of the works I noted in their bibliography - I'm sure that if you read the sources they used you will find they have been deliberately selective...beyond what wikipedia does as we are unlinked to any paper limitation.Peripitus (Talk) 12:09, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Is it OK to use ADB, then? Littleteddy (talk) 12:27, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Yes - it's a good and reliable source. Peripitus (Talk) 20:14, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA nom on hold

Leave a note on my talk page when you're done with this stuff. — Dihydrogen Monoxide 09:07, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

  • "In 1910 Charlton won the seat of Hunter and rose through the ranks of Andrew Fisher's government and stayed with the Australian Labor Party during its period in opposition." - Overuse of "and"
  • "but as an active politician, Charlton was invited to a meeting of the League of Nations (now United Nations) in 1924 but was unsuccessful in getting Australia to adopt the Geneva Protocol" - overuse of "but"
  • "In 1871, when he was 5, Charlton moved with his family to Lambton, a suburb of Newcastle, New South Wales." - Obviously (to me) Charlton refers to the father here, but to those with poor English it may be a bit unclear...consider noting that it was the father of the article's subject (and the father of the five year old).
  • Ref 2 needs publisher etc. So does ref 5
  • The 2nd image's caption could possibly do with a revamp
  • "Charlton was an immediate success with Andrew Fisher...he was vehemently opposed to conscription and fought hard against it." - Very, very long sentence there...
  • Ref 9 needs formatting (publisher, accessdate wlinking, etc.).

And that's it. — Dihydrogen Monoxide 09:07, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Of all the major party leaders in Australia, he picked this one for GA?! Fair enough, but we have plenty of PMs that could do with a GA! :) Timeshift (talk) 10:23, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
And you're welcome to go and write about them. Frankly I'd rather have a GA on something than no GA at all. — Dihydrogen Monoxide 01:26, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Already done a GA for an Australian PM. That's one more than all other wikipedians. But thanks for that suggestion anyway :-) Timeshift (talk) 09:31, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Feel free to write a few more! :) (Didn't mean to accuse you of anything, sorry if it came across like that.) — Dihydrogen Monoxide 00:28, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Hello. I have fixed the problems. Littleteddy (talk) 10:52, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Passed. — Dihydrogen Monoxide 00:28, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Eek... thanks. Littleteddy (talk) 03:23, 2 January 2008 (UTC)