Talk:Matt Ryan (American football)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was no move. JPG-GR (talk) 05:40, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Matt Ryan (American football) → Matt Ryan — He's way more notable than Matt Ryan (ice hockey) and he should own the main name. Matthew Ryan should be left as a dab page as he doesn't go by Matthew. Obviously, the hatnote would remain. —Oren0 (talk) 18:17, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Oppose. Top hit for Google.com is the footballer, but top hit from Google.co.uk is the Olympic medal winner (Matthew Ryan (equestrian)), who has the mattryan.co.uk domain name despite the name of his article. I am thinking that Matthew Ryan (equestrian) perhaps needs to be moved to Matt Ryan (equestrian)? Too many Matt/Matthew Ryans to give one person primary usage. Thy skinnyitalian (talk) 14:21, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

• Google results aren't everything. If the equestrian guy was really such a major usage, I'd think he'd have more than a 4-sentence stub article. This article is only going to grow and Matt Ryan's popularity is only going to increase now that he's soon to be an NFL starting QB. There's no reason not to anticipate this now and make this move. Oren0 (talk) 17:24, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose - Please do not speculate, per WP:CRYSTALBALL. He's not a starting QB yet. There haven't been any minicamps yet. He could break both his ankles and never play again in his life. So, wait until he's an actual NFL QB before displacing someone who has already and concretely achieved notability. --DrPeterBlood (talk) 13:34, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose. Anticipating stardom in the National Football League in itself is crystal balling. At present, there is no primary article for Matt Ryan (both with that exact name are stubs), and it can be argued that a professional hockey player (on a junior level) has comparable notability as the college football player. Thus Matt Ryan should either be a disambiguation page or (as currently done) redirect to a Matthew Ryan dab page. B.Wind (talk) 01:57, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Any additional comments:

• Matt Ryan (football)'s college achievements alone put him miles higher in notability than a minor league hockey player. And I believe that saying that an article with several sections and paragraphs, 8 references, and numerous succession and infoboxes is a stub like an article with only one sentence: "Matt Ryan (born on November 12, 1983 in Sharon, Ontario) is a centre for the Manchester Monarchs, the AHL affiliate of the Los Angeles Kings." is a stub is not really a fair comparison. Oren0 (talk) 02:45, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

• • Comment - Just because someone has a stub and another a huge article doesn't mean that one is more notable than the other. it just means that someone put more work into the longer article. So maybe we can fill out the hockey Mat Ryan's article instead of demoting it. Wikipedia has no deadline, so it's not like there should be a rush to do so.--DrPeterBlood (talk) 13:34, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
    • Matt Ryan the QB is WAY more notable than Matt Ryan the minor league hockey player. WP:Google notwithstanding, I checked the first 100 Google results for "Matt Ryan". All I found was the football player, the disambiguation page, 1 result for an actor that doesn't even have a WP page, and one result for some sort of cartoonist. No mention of any hockey player, horse rider, or anyone else listed at Matthew Ryan. The notability difference between this Matt Ryan and the others is huge. It seems that this move will be defeated now, but I'm confident it'll happen once football season starts, so it's a shame that people in the meantime will have trouble finding the Matt Ryan they're almost certainly looking for. Oren0 (talk) 18:52, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Before you continue discussing "notability", it is most highly suggested that you read WP:N and WP:ATHLETE. In many areas of the world, there is a huge difference in "notability" because one has participated in professional games and the other has not. Your argument may wind up true by WP:ATHLETE in September, but it is not the case right now, and - as I pointed out before - Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, and right now the American football Matt Ryan has yet to play a down on the professional level, let alone the highest one. The more proper move is to make Matt Ryan a disambiguation page without bias toward or against any one Matt Ryan... or keep it a redirect to the Matthew Ryan dab page, which probably would be a better move in the long run. B.Wind (talk) 04:04, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
        • I'm quite familiar with WP:ATHLETE: "Competitors and coaches who have competed at the highest level in amateur sports." His notability from college play alone makes him more notable than the others. Oren0 (talk) 05:03, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.