Talk:Mathcore

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on October 16, 2006. The result of the discussion was keep.
Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on November, 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

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[edit] noisecore is not mathcore

noisecore is not mathcore, they are different. The author needs to know that, as math core is about technicality, and noisecore is about, well, noise and chaos, with technicality taking a back seat.

[edit] question

well than what is a good example of noisecore? ive never heard of it?

-ethan

A good example is The Locust

a better example is early anal cunt

Early anal cunt (Everyone Should Be Killed) was almost just "noise". TEE-HEE.

[edit] Are Meshuggah Mathcore?

They're extremely brutal and heavy with a guitarist who sounds like Allan Holdsworth, heaps of time changes, weird key changes and incredible techniqueAndrew F. 23:38, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I've wondered about Meshuggah too. They fit the description, but the style is very different from other artists in this genre.

No Meshuggah are not Mathcore. Meshuggah are Math-Metal not Mathcore. The Two genres are related, but Mathcore has a hardcore element which math-metal does not. Mathcore is essentially Math-Metalcore. In a similar way Sikth also have Math elements and are Math_metal, but do not contain enough of a hardcore sound to be considered Mathcore - Lester Drake 20:45 3 Jan 2005

Math metal doesn't actually exist. Meshuggah is the only ones that type of description clearly. However there are a lot of polyrythms in technical death metal.

But, then again, Meshuggah aren't death metal either. The description "technical post-thrash" fits well right up until Nothing, but after that, I'd say "math metal" is the most accurate description. But math metal redirects to mathcore, a genre they don't belong to. What do we do?

Math metal is what most people call Converge & DEP so that's why that is. Can't we just call Meshuggah Metal or at the most Progressive post-thrash? There is really no point trying to categorize them to rigidly though. XdiabolicalX 17:31, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mathcore & Mathmetal

I removed the metal bands Between The Buried And Me and Glass Casket because they're not really "hardcore". Some of the other bands I left on there could be mainly metal, but I wouldn't know because I've never heard of them and I have a dial-up modem so song sampling would take a long time. As well, this article doesn't get much attention (nor does the hardcore article as well) so I don't think many mathcore Wikipedians will get pissed off. I'm going to make a "math metal" page for them and others. -theelderraven

BTBAM seems to be hardcore influenced to me. --141.209.196.70 05:54, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bands

I also removed some bands (Burnt by the Sun, Isis etc.) because I feel they don't accurately reflect the "mathcore" tag. I also added a few which fit nicely into this genre, mainly bands from the Relapse label - arguably a definitive catalogue of "math" style bands. El Mark

[edit] Dillinger Escape Plan & Converge

why was this moved from the metalcore page? Do Dillinger Escape Plan and Converge "promote" mathcore?

I don't know the answer to your first question but to the latter. But to the answer of your latter question, Dillinger and Converge, are probably the Two biggest, and most influencial bands in this genre, so yes they deffinatly do promote mathcore. P.S. They are still Metalcore bands, but that is true of every mathcore band as Mathcore is simply a subgenre of Metalcore. - Lester Drake 20:50 03 Jan 2006

[edit] Botch

Botch was listed twice. I took that out.

I'd say Meshuggah is usually refered to as Math Metal, so you might want to add them to this article.

[edit] Why called Mathcore?

The article doesn't really explain why this music was given the label "mathcore". Does anyone know?

[edit] Time signatures

Ok, iv`e basically just created an account with Wikipedia purely to add to this fine page on my favourite type of music.

Ok, basically, without a shadow of a doubt, Meshuggah are definately a Mathcore band. As a drummer i have a great understanding of time signatures, and anything that incorporates about 4-5 different time signatures within one riff alone, substantiates to a calculation. Basically when writing a beat like that, you cant just sit down and play it, you have to play around until you nail it. The thing to bear in mind is guys like Tomas Haake and Chris Pennie (Dillinger) are playing two different time signatures simultaneously. Its not mathematically correct.

The way I define a mathcore band is the first time you listen to it, you shouldnt be able to figure it out, it should take you a few plays to "calculate" and understand the beats/timesignatures etc.

And then all is well of course

Astrobastard

  • I'd have to disagree with alot of that, to me your not defining mathcore, your defining what makes something Math. As in what makes something Math-Metal is that it fits into the Metal Genre but also has what you described above, what makes something mathcore is that it fits into metalcore, bu8t also has what you describe above, what makes sopmething math-rock (if such a genre exists) is that it fits into rock and has what you described above. - Lester Drake 20:57 03 Jan 2006
Meshuggah isn't "core" though. That's kind of a problem with having "mathcore" and "math metal" mean the same thing. Although there are very little "math metal" bands.
Firstly, please sign comments... secondly, although math-metal and mathcore are alike, there are subtle differences... Types of screams; harcore screaming verses more metal screaming (there is a difference), Shredding guitar verses say more dissonant tech riffs, distortion on guitar/bass, other instrumentation... Days will chase 01:37, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Perhaps the Grindcore influence should be mentioned?

Alot of Mathcore bands have a sound very similar to that of grindcore e.g. Daughter, As The Sun Sets, The End. And most Mathcore bands site a large handfull of Grindcore bands amongst their influences. Mathcore is genrally considered more extreme than noraml metalcore, and use speeds and a lot of techniques which are used less commonly in general Metalcore, but very commonly in Grindcore. I think this similarity/influence should be mentioned. -Lester Drake 21:07 03 Jan 2006

[edit] Fear Before The March Of Flames

I don't consider them Mathcore, but many people call them Mathcore now. They are certainly influnced by it. Should this be mentioned anywhere?

[edit] bands

I clearly don't see why Daughters is a mathcore band, I don't hear any technical arranges, thats in my personal opinion. I also added Misery Signals to the list, they clearly fit the genre, also I suggest to take Between The Buried And Me from there, we can't confuse progressive and technical music with mathcore, Between isn't just a mathcore band, they mix a variety of genres, making them more like progressive metalcore band than mathcore.

  • Talking of bands, are The Fall Of Troy mathcore? They are Math for sure, and they aren't metal, but they are more post-hardcore than hardcore... anyone? Days will chase 01:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hardcore/Metalcore

Right I'm not getting into a an argument on something as stupid however:

"When a punk rock band begins to play technical music, they are no longer punk rock, as the whole point of punk was to play simple, aggressive, fun music. "Hardcore" is a subgenre of punk rock."

Is completely wrong. There is many punk bands who have got progressivly more technical as time went on (Misfits for example). Also by this statement you must also think the as the Clash were incorporating Reggae & Dub influences that they are no longer 'punk'? Anyway punk is a lifestyle before a music genre.--XdiabolicalX 13:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

What the fuck is mathcore? Did you guys just make this up? Do they have biology-core too? What about geometry-metal? Do you realize how incredibly stupid this sounds?

Seriously. I see absolutely no point to this. You can't just go on and make up your own 'genres' and then make a page about it like it's something that has actually existed outside of your basement. This stuff is total pollution - leave the bands alone and get a life.

I'm tempted to just delete your trash but I won't. However I will tell you 'Mathcore' gets 193,000 hits on Google which obviously tells you it's not just in someones basement. XdiabolicalX 13:09, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
It's funny, one guy at my school once made a comment just like that about math metal when Meshuggah was mentioned. Stupid people.

I made the link to Training for Utopia work by changing the capitalization. They are metalcore and industrial (both of which are true). On Plastic Soul Impalement they are very mathcore, but the sound was distinct to this album (maybe a project?) and did not follow the artists in the band to later projects (such as Demon Hunter). Jlricherson 05:05, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

What's really funny is that I'm currently typing a comment just like that myself. Seriously, just because a word has a lot of hits on Google doesn't make it any less manufactured. Anyone remembers "miserable failure"? So, would someone please point out the connection between mathematics and bands like Meshuggah or Dillinger Escape Plan, for the uninitiated like me? That "fiddling aroud" that's mentioned earlier in this discussion page doesn't sound very mathematical to me. Lyrics ain't mathematical either. Where does the math in mathcore come from? And I am studying engineering, you don't have to talk in layman's terms to me. 85.179.165.85 (talk) 19:42, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
D'oh, this was a reply to the paragraph after "Xdiabolicalx", which was clearly marked as a reply by the colon. Thank you for editing, whoever, it doesn't make sense on its own. Whoopee. 85.177.179.166 (talk) 07:57, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Redirection from Math-Core

It comes up with no results when you search math-core... I think someone should do something about that... as that is how it should be written; post-rock, math-metal, post-hardcore... etc. Days will chase 01:52, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

It's not correct for genres with the core suffix, e.g. Metalcore, Grindcore, Hardcore punk, Noisecore ect. --Diabolical 02:48, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Roots of Mathcore

It is preposterous to say that any bands created around 2003-present have been the roots of mathcore. I am going to remove August Burns Red, Hubble Constant, and the Human Abstract from that list. Such bands are followers, not roots of the musical style. Fmalcangi 21:05, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alot of work needed

The article is completely unsourced OR as it stands, it needs some serious work done to remain as is. --Neon white 23:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I found that math rock is viable genre (All Music Guide) so to answer the anon who posted before me I guess mathcore is a mix of that and heavy metal sensibility. --CircafuciX 06:53, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

It's written as "complex time signatures" but I've never heard of that term before. I've heard of compound time signatures, and I understand that they are non-conventional, but "complex"? Counting to a number less then 20 or so isn't really that complex :) --Syd Heresy (talk) 05:56, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Needs to be removed

"The term mathcore comes from the use of many different and irregular time signatures within one piece of music"

This should be removed, or re-written and put in a better place. Rawwwrr! (talk) 02:20, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gah?

Can someone point me in the direction of someone who actually has used the term "mathcore?" I'm starting to see lots of made up genres so people can put their favorite bands into their own category. I always thought, for the most part, things with odd time signatures and such would mostly fall under progressive metal, like Dream Theater, etc. I really don't think there needs to be an article trying to come up with a new genre. A google search on mathcore gives no results about anything related to music except this article. A sign perhaps? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tlonmaster (talk • contribs) 03:51, 31 March 2008 (UTC)


Actually when i was describing a new band several years ago called "lamb of god" my friend said "oh, that Math-metal band?" That was when i was a sophomor in highschool, about '04, so people aren't just making up genres, mathmetal has been around for a while. and mathcore and mathmetal are really the same thing. it's metal, and it's math. it doesn't matter if it's core, because it originated in METALcore... so someone should put Mathcore (also known as Mathmetal.)Heart2rokk (talk) 23:09, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry I have to disagree. I'm listening to Protest the Hero right now and I can see why this would be labeled Mathcore. It is certainly not Mathmetal it is far too hardcore influenced. I think the problem is that a lot of people see the removal of the metal from the metalcore name and think that -cores are no longer considered metal. This is definitely not the case with this genre. No one said it had to make sense, language is mostly non-sensical anyway. So the bands in this genre will display metal sounds but that also have hardcore roots. Bands that do not have hardcore roots (like Meshuggah, though I am certain there are better examples) do not belong here. marnues (talk) 21:05, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Needs cleanup

The current version is poorly written with no citations.--SilverOrion (talk) 04:58, 11 May 2008 (UTC)