Talk:Masturbation/Archives/2008/May

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sexual tension is a misleading term

In point of fact, no human or animal being has a tension specifically to do sex. Because if you don't know something, you're not going to want it... this is not finalistic, this is not aimed at something concrete. Testosterone is not a hormone of "urge", it is a hormone of independence; this thing is too much oversimplified, and it leads to ideological conclusions...

Most men don't learn masturbation by themselves, they're somehow "teached" (in opposition to women, who generally learn this from self-experimenting). This is not only because someone tells them "before", but penis is a two-tasks organ, you touch it non-sexually, not suspecting anything; you clean it and most people wouldn't learn orgasm from it; etc. It is strictly cultural (e.g. Western/Christian world is completely libertine comparing to Asians); although today it is present almost everywhere and in many past cultures it was also popular (although of course not as much as today in onanistic times where morality denies all will...). Anyway, it is not so obvious a man will learn it, in fact it is possible (and then necessary) that less than half of man will experience it if specific conditions (similar to some medieval ones) are fulfilled.

Human brain is controlled by humors, but this essentially means by specific neurotransmiters. And this means that we have, to put it simply, "different minds" in different states (of course there is soft transition): so, the effective system of neural connections changes with the change in configuration of neurotransmiters. That is probably because of something about the synapses (like synapses working specifically with such-and-such neurotransmiters or whatever... this needs to be better investigated). So let's call this softly-transitioning minds 'Bases', representing some more or less primitive, more or less chaotic groups of neurons associated with certain neurohormones. I would also say that when a neural connection is going to be made, it is going to be made in various Bases proportionally to the presence of their neurotransmiters at that moment.

It is not the presence of testosterone or appropriate neurotransmiters (let's call them X) linked thereto what causes "sexual tension" in male (the term urge means nothing concrete); rather the fact that they are _bare_, uncivilized, crude, lacking social hormones (which can come either from social relations or from orgasm (oxitocine?): this is the same group of hormones - here is explaination why you might get addicted to dating sites or whatever "pink" (with faces) especially when you don't have orgasms). Most of what we have ever learned bases on these social hormones (which is obvious, because we learn when _someone_ teaches us...), especially in childhood - even the ability to listen, read, generally the reception of impulses, the ability for analysis (especially the deep one); and in opposition to it, the Autonomical Base X is generally very primitive, it reacts like a child, there is much rudimentary chaos (which results in "emotions" like scream, cry, laugh), simplified thought etc. Women, who generally are much more driven by social hormones since their childhood, become weak when they have no people around them for a long time and then they masturbate to get some of them. This is no "urge". When a boy gets 14 years old and he has more of testosterone, and therefore X is even more present, his personality either becomes very sharp and primitive (which is nowadays fought with all possible means...) or he is masturbating because he was somehow learned. If a boy who masturbated very much suddenly stops it (and is able to stop it for some week or so), he suddenly "loses" most contents of his mind: that is because social-base Y is much lowered and pure stupid X rules him. Now, when a man becomes older, throughout all these years the things he does (thanks to Y) more and more exert their shadow (i.e. create connections) on X (basing on the mechanism already described), so X becomes more civilized. And that's why an old man is more able to stop sex: then even if he is alone, he has his baggage. But a women, instead, when she begins to have more and more testosterone, she doesn't automatically want sex, it just sharpens her personality, begins to make it more crude... now you see, why in today's conditions (and in many other epochs!) they prefer then to have sex, especially that throughout years they attached themselves to the pleasure of orgasm more and more. But with time X becomes accustomed and tamed by various sources...

Now you see what I wanted to say: it is not the urge, but the appearance of an (yet!) untamed sphere of independence what in fact happens. This doesn't have to be connected with sex at all! If you, being aroused (because of chaotical primitive way of acting and lack of deeper thought), do various things and then by accident discover sex, then well, but it is not automatic aiming. It is not that "sexual urge increases, so people automatically start masturbating more". They start to be harsh, primitive, bad pupils, for example young boys who didn't masturbate much yet will perhaps like fights, etc. This all follows from independence which is yet immature. BUT if you train it (probably as an anchorite, for most things will lose their meanings for you, whereas people and social hormones are associated with sex in you...), and if your independence becomes well formed (can be hard sitting inside of it!), you can generally be free from masturbation as early as in late 18th year of life (I know it because I achieved it myself), and then keep it for years with no problem. Really feeling no urge, rather total anchorite loneliness. The interests etc., all that the mob now cares about, is very superficial and it is based on social/sexual hormones. - Also, the if Y becomes weak, the intellect becomes much purer and most of superfluous contents disappears, therefore also that what is connected with reception of the very details, detailed search and research, intellectual curiosity, etc. etc., but this is rather due to "erasal" of these things from your mind than due to some positive "clouding". Orgasm doesn't remove the clouding, he brings the main contents back. Anyway, if you manage to organise your life without masturbation - or even better, if you never did it (and I believe there were such people and animals) - and if you don't think about sex (even abstract words can addict! very dangerous!), then you can don't even feel you'd need sex, even though you might be completely incompatible with other people. Anyway, to bring it to an end: THE BEAST IN YOU DOESN'T NEED SEX, IT NEEDS TAMING. (The other thing is attachment to a pleasure, it addicts with another mechanism, because it represents its own base, sucking you with every step into its own world, its own humor different than that of independence - this is the case with women: but then, you need to know that pleasure. When a child starts masturbating, then soon after he starts he enters slightly, but more with every moment, a crude base Z too... that's why he has so little thought then, so simplistic action.)

And these percents . . . Well, very modern way of thinking! I think that the middle-ages, but some ancient tribes too, could very well live in purity; after all, EVERYTHING was arranged for it, even the death of city life, the individualism, ascetism, aristocratic way of life - - (if today there was sport instead of schools and earning!) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.114.170.250 (talk • contribs)

Talk pages are for discussing improvements to the article. If you think something should be added to the article, say so and give citations to reliable sources. If you think something should be deleted from the article, say so and give citations to reliable sources as to why it's not true. Wikipedia is not a place for fanciful theories. The Wednesday Island (talk) 19:35, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Automated archiving

This talk page is getting huge. Would anyone mind if I pointed User:MiszaBot to clear away some of the debris? The Wednesday Island (talk) 19:48, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Not at all. Darrenhusted (talk) 10:05, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
None here either, this is one of the biggest talk pages ive ever seen. Sort it :P Alastairthegreat (talk) 21:28, 8 May 2008 (UTC)