Talk:Massage

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[edit] Etymology of Greek and Latin terms

I know the source for this clearly states that "anatripsis" and "frictio" are both Greek terms for massage, but this is clearly an error on the part of the author. "anatripsis" finds its root in the verb tribein,"rub/wear (away)/whittle/grate/annoy, etc." while frictio is traceable to the Latin fricare, "rub/chafe." As a teacher of Latin and Greek, (but not a world expert by any means,) this is an obvious mistake. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.244.98.124 (talk) 23:51, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] confused

I notice that someone else has recently had a similar message to mine - I posted some information about the Scottish Massage Therapists Organisation and it was removed and I was told it was advertising. I don't understand why it's OK to have USA organisations, Australian organisations, but not Scottish ones! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rubyr (talk • contribs) .

Rubyr, I have reworked your contribution. It should be fine without the external link you were including. That was the main problem that makes it look like advertising. However, if it is a for-profit organization, others may feel that it does not belong on this page. I will not make a judgment on that at this time. I've made a red-link to the organization. You can follow that link and create an article there if you like. Also, please see WP:SIG. — Coelacan | talk 19:03, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Rubyr, you (or someone) should add it to the "Massage Therapist organization" page here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massage_therapist_organizations. It is unfortunate that people see it as advertising but really associations are there to do advocacy work for the profession, not to make a dollar - Nov 22, 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.124.171.10 (talk) 21:59, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation (Massage the Numbers)

I found this page because I wanted to find out about the practice of Massaging the Numbers. I know the dictionary definition, but the dictionary does not make it clear wether "Massaging the Numbers" refers to a particular method of misrepresentation, or merely refers in general to any numerical misrepresentation that is not actually a lie.

If Massaging the Numbers does not pertain to a particular method of misrepresentation, then this should be stated in Wiktionary, and if it does pertain to a specific method, then that method should be described in Wikipedia and a disambiguation page for "Massage" should be created (or a link within the "Massage" article saying see also "Massage the Numbers" or something like that.)--VegKilla 22:52, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Massage" has got to go !

I would like to propose that the current definition of "massage" as it is stated, should be changed. If it is, as it remains, we should include in the "massage" section, physiotherapy, osteopathy, chiropractic, even possibly nursing, among others. What I propose is that all the so-called massage techniques become "bodywork" - "massage" is a type of bodywork, as is physiotherapy, as is shiatsu, as is soft tissue therapy etc., etc., as such, it should be listed among the types of bodywork, rather than being a specific category in itself. The term "massage" is pretty much defunct now, it seems to include ANY technique that involves touching a person, and that they not be a physio, osteo, or chiro. I will post this propsal about the various bodywork discussions for some feedback. I think that Wiki is a great starting point to delineate and structure the types of bodywork that exist around the world. (Euripides 03:03, 1May 2006 (UTC))

[edit] (not so!) "Massage" has got to go !? (not so!)

- Massage can be categorized under body work yes and not Vic versa (well some Techniques found under other Body works subdivisions are also within scope for) massage therapist (or registered massage therapists R.M.T's)

-massage should be linked through body work along with other forms of Body work (which ,as far a I'm concerned, is anything where you work directly with the body.) but it should not only be assessable thus. it should also be found under the heading massage therapy listing massage in general is not a bad idea if you want to focus on the different form of massage world wide. medically recognized and other message therapy on the other hand could focuses on the medically recognized and defined massage example: in Canada massage in recognized as health care the definition for massage and what R.M.Ts are taught is not necessarily all that would or can be considered as "massage".

- I do agree that the current setup has to change - Under massage there should be general information on different types of massage and links to those types of massages described more in depth. - Under massage therapy should be clinical massage practiced by registered massage therapist as well as unregistered professionals - Physiotherapy and other body works such as chiropractor & acupuncture should be kept separate of massage even if they do contain elements of massage.

Anyways what I'm saying is massage should not be taken out because what if you have never heard the terms “Body work” or “massage therapy” not probable but possible.

I think that body work would be too large a page to include detail on all the different types (shiatsu, osteopathy etc). These should be links within the body work page. I think the title of this page should be changed from 'Massage' to 'Massage Therapy' as per reasons listed above. Sydney naturopath 12:17, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
I prefer the term Bodywork, however Massage Therapist is on my license. If the title is changed, then I suggest removing the references to sexual services. Psnack 06:02, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Range of Motion, taboo phrase!

I wasnt' sure if I should replace this but wanted to bring it up. The 2nd paragraph states that a massage therapist assesses a client through range of motion...... however, I have learned that 'range of motion' is a phrase reserved for physical therapists, and that massage therapists can be sued for its use.

I'm not sure where this information came from, but I can tell you that 'Range of Motion' is a phrase used by many health professions, including chiropractors, physical therapists, massage therapists, and MDs in sports medicine. It is a basic principle of kinesiology/orthopedics. --Nyxie 04:30, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Reply:I am a licensed massage therapist in Iowa, and ROM is well within our legal perogative to use. 6:45PM, May 5 2006

Same in California. LMT's can evaluate, and for therapeutic massage should evaluate, but not diagnose. svacina.com Psnack 10:47, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] an artikel about Massage - not about moral opinion or attitude !

I deleted the following phrase

"For "massage" as a euphemism for paid sexual favors, see prostitution.

and I added the part about Tantramassage, I don't want to step into discussions about moral values and about the term "prostitution". I work with Tantrmassages and I am not a prostitute, but statements like this don't belong to an article about "massage" Martina

I think the phrase should remain as it previously was. Tantramassage is NOT a 'euphemism,' nor does it offer 'sexual favors.' It works on channeling sexual energy.

I have rewritten the intro to Massage therapy. It now starts with an explanation of massage therapy, not massage. It also advises that massage therapy is used in both conventional and alternative medicine. Therefore, there is obviously no need for a box repeating something that has already appeared prominently in the text. Moriori 02:34, Jun 11, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Confusion?

I see that "massage therapy" is now forwarding to "bodywork". I believe a more appropriate forwarding would be to "massage" (or maybe from massage to massage therapy).

And I also noticed that "bodywork" and "massage therapy" as presented as equivalent, but ddddI belive there should be some differentiation. All massage therapy is bodywork, but not all bodywork is massage therapy (e.g. Breema). Perklund 03:03, Nov 5, 2004 (UTC)

I agree....this article should be changed to "massage therapy", and "massage" should forward to it.

I agree also, and have commented as such nearer the top.Sydney naturopath 12:18, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Legal or Habit

There was an anonymous addition by 68.57.0.235 stating: "In most states, certain areas such as the genitals ... are draped at all times." Is that a habit or a legal requirement? And are those "states" the ones of the USA? −Woodstone 13:43, 2005 Apr 3 (UTC)

In the US, 16 states currently have no regulation of massage, for draping or otherwise. Where there is regulation, mention is rarely made of draping REQUIREMENTS. Ethically speaking, one drapes to the comfort level of the client, and according to the requirements of the style. For example, Tantramassage and Esalen use little to no draping, while a Shiatsu therapist would never dream of undraping the genitals. Nudity would even hinder a Thai massage.

[edit] In Response to the above

I am living in Australia and I am currently training as a massage therapist. I'm not sure about America, but in Australia, not draping the genital region is unethical and a form of malpractice that has legal implications. Hence, why draping the genitals is a habit, because of legal implications.

My response to the Australian is to say that your attitude is awfully prudish. In America attention to the genitals is considered an integral part of the massage.

I am a licensed massage therapist and I can vouch for the fact that "In America attention to the genitals is NOT considered an integral part of the massage." Where would anyone get this idea? Therapeutic massage and "erotic massage" (or anything else that harkens back to the notion of massage parlors as a euphemism for house of prostitution) have nothing in common. I take it as a personal insult, and an insult to all my colleagues who have also studied anatomy and physiology and spent hours and hours doing supervised clinical massage treatments in order to become licenses professional, when there is any mention of or association with anything sexual in the same breath with "massage." It's not a matter or morals, being prudish, or any such thing. It's just a matter or factual accuracy. We are allied health professionals. We are not sex therapists, prostitutes or escorts. Even hospitals are hiring massage therapists in recent years. This misinformation needs to be corrected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boogiewoman (talk • contribs)

I think it was a joke. — coelacan talk — 05:02, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'm pleased to see that, at least on principal, Boogiewoman doesn't inject "...matter or morals, being prudish, or any such thing" into her massage work, but she sounds pretty touchy to me when she claims that TM (therapeutic massage) has absolutely nothing in common with EM (erotic massage) and takes it as a personal insult whenever there is "...any mention of or association with anything sexual in the same breath with 'massage'". Maybe she needs to have her attitudes "massaged" by another health professional? On a more serious note, I think I heard on Fox News (I was a captive audience, in the workplace) that the American Medical Association (AMA) and/or insurance companies are claiming that massage is not scientifically "efficacious" (effective) at all; this CANNOT bode well at all for those of us who value relaxation and mind/body/spirit integration, so what's going on, is Fox turning its big guns against alt. medicine and massage now?

I am a therapist in Texas, a state that requires therapists to be licensed and has laws governing massage therapy and massage therapists. Current laws do NOT require draping. Some therapists beleive that "professionalism" requires clients to be draped. Others consider it professional whether the clients body is draped or not. To each his/her own. I do know, however, that I would never want to be under the hands of a therapist who was afraid of the human body and afraid they are going to get 'turned on' by seeing a naked body. Therapists should maintain their professionalism whether or not the body is draped. Good grief, my doctor doesn't require draping!

I am a massage therapist in Nevada, where draping is a MUST! We must be completely professional and nonsexual because prostitution is legal in certain situations in Nevada, and we cannot cross that line or imply that we do. We drape all of the body except the one part we are working on, and if anything sexual happens during the massage, we must stop immediately. It's a very defined line. State by state, the laws are very different in the United States, as are the licensing requirements. Some states/counties do not even require licensing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.93.81.238 (talk) 02:21, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re-organize/split this article

It seems to me that this article should be split into an article on massage in general, with seperate articles for each of the "types of massage" and likewise for the "massage therapist organizations." Also, the main article should posibly be renamed to "massage therapy", and a differentiation between "massage" and "massage therapy" should be made. - Akromian 10:01, May 15, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Assessment

In response to the above I agree. There is one important aspect of "Massage Therapy" that is missing. "Musculoskeletal assessment" is a tool that massage therapists (as well as other health care professionals) use to assess injury, degree of injury and postural definceies (muscle imbalances) that occur through out the body. What good are all these techniques with a out guide line for applying them? General scenario; The assessment revelied the agonist is short and tight and the antagonist is long and tight causing abnormal wear on the structures involved such as articular surfaces, ligaments, nerves, blood vessels, facia ect... Now this is a guide line for appling diffrent techniques with the muscular tension relationship in mind.

[edit] Massage Parlor

Someone has created a new Wikipedia entry for "Massage Parlor" that needs A LOT of work... Please come help! It's awful!

[edit] Temporary store of rambling new intro (for discussion)

The concise intro was replaced by the following rambling passage, which is not clear and contains a lot of info that is really not to the point. Please other watchers comment. −Woodstone 10:37, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Massage is the practice of applying moving or stationary pressure, vibration or a tremulous movement of the hands or a device held in the hands, percussion, or a regular, rhythmic tapping using the hands or a device held in the hands) or regular, back and forth, almost non-existent compression using an ice cube) using the hands or devices held in the hand to the many different tissues of the body, especially the nerves where they draw near the surface of the body and the blood vessels. Massage does not work upon the bones, muscles, tendons, or ligaments of the musculoskeletal system, but rather through them, to get at nerves or blood vessels which, when acted upon can stimulate or inhibit physiological processes of interest. These structures and fascia can also be used as a floor upon which to compress blood vessels and nerves to elicit a therapeutic effect. From the earliest times in European history, circa the fourth century B.C.E., upon to the present massage as a tool of medicine has been applied only to localized parts of the body or limited regions of it to elicit a specific physiological effect. Whole body, or general, massage is a relatively new phenomenon, which was developed for use in the health spas of England during the late nineteenth century where its purpose was to provide the recipient a few moments of relaxation and pleasure before the real work of clinical massage was begun. Applications of massage have been developed over the past one hundred and fifty years to relieve discomfort and disease affecting every organ system of the body. So excellent research has been published, along with much unsubstantiated chaff, mere claims of clinicians vaguely depicted without a possibility of these techniques being resurrected and duplicated by clinicians today. Massage can prove an aid in treating disorders of the veins and arteries; the peripheral and autonomic nerves, the spinal cord and brain, the thyroid and adrenal glands; and the various organs of the gastrointestinal, genitourinary and cardiovascular systems. Massages almost always acts subtly to stimulate or inhibit biochemical processes of the body, or to stimulate or inhibit reflexes. In limited circumstances it can be used to elicit a mechanical effect so as to impede dysfunctional scar tissue formation within or upon a site of tissue injury. The body of knowledge concerning the application of massage to treat primary disorders of the musculoskeletal system is very small. Massage of aspects of the nervous system is often sufficient to induce sleep or alertness, to relieve anxiety or depressed mood, to relieve nausea and vomiting, to moderate or eliminate migraine or sinus headache, or to reduce muscle tension or motor spasticity of paralysis.

A clinical massage therapist needs to assess would be clients afflicted with a medical disorder with which they would like a massage therapists help in controlling their symptoms initially by obtaining a medical release from the client's physician so as to learn the medical conditions with which they are currently afflicted, a summary of the treatments now being given to these patients, and a summary of the patient's current medical condition, as all of this informaiton will help guide a clinical interview which must necessarily precede a clinical physical examination. The best way to obtain a quick turn around from the patient's physician is to fax a copy of the release to the patient's physician, then follow up a few hours later with a call specifically to the doctor's nurse, asking her help in getting a quick turn around for the release. Usually within a day the appropriate information will be faxed to you. Until you have the needed information, it is essential that massage work proceed gently, lightly and briefly so as to elicit no untoward reaction from a medical problem of which your client us unaware.

[edit] This article is a mess

This article has little information on massage itself, but has a massive list of types of massage and another for "massage schools" which clutter it so we don't see its emptiness.

I think this is stupid, and I MOVED (not deleted) those lists to pages of their own. But this was unfortunately reverted by User: Woodstone, with an edit summary that implied all I did was a "massive delete". Does anyone really think these lists are relevant in the main massage article? In absence of an answer, I will do the move again. Jules.LT 10:37, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Why would an explanation of many kinds of massage not be information on massage? I surely agree that this article can be improved a lot, but cutting out almost all information and leaving just (as you rightly stated) a stub, is certainly not an improvement. So long as not a more thorough treatment of the science behind massage is added, I think we should keep at least the easily read and interesting classification with short explanations. I agree as well that the organisations of massage therapists are really of no interest in an encyclopedia. −Woodstone 20:47, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
How about moving some of the types of massage into Types of massage, and linking to that at the start of the section? At the moment, the list of types and explanations dominates the article somewhat.
Why is there a separate article called "Types of Massage" which is almost the same as the part of this article on "Types of Massage." The two should be combined into one. I think Types of Massage should be here, not in a separate article. Makana Chai 01:36, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I have to agree with Jules.lt. The move of the types of massage to a new article would be purely cosmetic - we wouldn't be losing information, we'd just be making the information easier to digest. --Natsirtguy (talk) 13:41, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Biological Explanation?

How does a massage work? Why does it make me feel tingly? What is the scientific explanation for this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 165.247.108.108 (talk • contribs) .

This depends on the type of massage, the area massaged, etc. I have most experience with Swedish Massage, which works mainly on the muscles and skin. The effects are partly due to stimulating the circulatory and lymphatic systems, but also removing 'knots' of tension from muscles, stimulating the nerves in the area, and some psychological factors. SeventyThree(Talk) 23:59, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
No offense, but that's still not very specific. Does it stimulate some special nerves or release certain neurotransmitters to produce the pleasurable feeling? Why can't someone massage themselves? Is it related to tickling (since people cant tickle themselves either)? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.111.242.64 (talk • contribs) .


Search Medline government publications, and you will find research showing canabinoid receptors, growth hormone and stress hormone changes due to massage. Tickling is related because the brain accepts touch differently when the same person is touching (several types of pain response, touch receptors, proprioception, etc.) Psnack (talk) 04:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


No offense taken, but I wasn't sure how much information the first poster wanted. Are you the same person? It's customary to sign comments on talk pages using ~~~~. Tickling is vague as to the mechanisms involved, but I suspect that tickling and massage are not very related.
Specific nerves, no - massage generally activates pressure and movement/position nerves. Massage as pain relief works because you can only cope with a certain amount of stimulus in a region, and some of the signals from the pressure sensors override some of those from the pain sensors, so not all of the pain is received. Again a little vague, I know!
Some massages would be impossible for you to perform on your self without several extra arms! Others there are no physical restrictions, it just doesn't seem to work as well. For swedish massage, that's because giving a massage requires concentration, and can also be quite hard work. To receive a massage, you need to be able to relax. I believe that some of psycological reasons that massage feels good are because we are being told to lie still, not worry about anything, relax etc. and give up complete control to somebody else. This in itself can be very nice compared to the stressful life many people live. Compare with research showing that putting an event in your diary under 'Fun' rather than 'Work' makes you enjoy it more!
Releasing toxins from the massaged area and stimulating blood flow (bringing Oxygen) will make the affected area feel healthier and stronger (hence the 'walking on air' feeling). Unknotting muscles will also make them sronger.
I hope all this helps - unfortunately I know more about the practical sides of massage than the medical side. I give better massages than I do explanations :) If you find recently proffessionaly qualified masseur, they will have done a course on massage-related physiology and probably know more specifics than me. SeventyThree(Talk) 12:47, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't mean to be insulting, but SeventyThree gave a very unscientific answer to the effectiveness of massage. There are, indeed hormones released during a massage that counteract our pain pain perception. And many eastern styles of massage have specific and in-depth protocols on self-massage for long term health. And speaking of long term, the reason no modern research exists on the long term benefits of massage is that research takes money. Most research is conducted by major corporations, none of which would benefit from increased acceptance of massage therapy. The Touch Research Institute (TRI) of FL is conducting many productive studies, they are, however short term in scope.

[edit] Link spam

I removed all but one entry under External links because they all were for clinics or associations of therapists or schools, and were more about advertising than anything else. -- Dalbury(Talk) 11:49, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Associations are not-for-profit and their websites can be resources for information on what is massage therapy, the history of massage therapy and the regulation of it in its particular region so I don't see how it would be at all considered "advertising" They work for all MTs in their area, regardless of membership and don't sell membership to non-MT (most likely the target audience for this article). Also, some of the school links may have been "Colleges" which are actually the regulatory bodies that govern the profession, not schools to attend. Having an external link to a College is akin to having an external link to the official goverment website.

- nov 22, 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.124.171.10 (talk) 22:10, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Therapy? What therapy?

I am surpised that the article does not discuss what the long term and short term health benefits of massages are. If it's a therapy, what is it curing?

To my knowledge massage therapy has not been proven to have any long term health benefits. It just makes people feel nice, relaxed, and pampered for a short while.

Am I correct? I think the article should point to some research resources. -Nanoflop

This issue is the next great hurdle that massage therapy as a profession needs to contend with. The popular view of massage as well as the predominant current practice limits massage to use as a tool for relaxation. Even articles such as the one under discussion here talk about the therapeutic benefits of massage in vague terms.

Massage therapy is indicated in most cases of soft tissue dysfunction. It's main therapeutic benefit is in lengthening muscles, resetting muscle resting length, treating scar tissue from injury or surgery to create a more functional scar, free restrictions between layers of myofascia, and generally return the myofascial and skeletal network to a state of balance and optimal function.

Because I'm unaware of adequate research, I present a case study. I once had a client who presented with severe pain in her gluteal region and thighs. She attributed the pain to a new personal training program she had recently begun. Her history revealed an accident 15 years ago that *severely* traumatized her abdomen and lower body. She used massage as part of her rehabilitative process, but it wasn't comprehensive, as she still had scar tissue and myofascial restrictions from her rib cage down.

When I first saw her, she walked slowly with a noticeable limp. After two sessions of almost exclusive myofascial work, she was walking normally and could resume her exercise program. At a later date, she returned, barely able to turn over in bed. We focused on her abdomen using myofascial release for the entire session, and by the end of it, she could turnover with ease.

My explanation of the theory behind these results? Anytime tissue is traumatized and goes through a healing process, scar tissue is laid down to repair the injury. Her old injuries were so comprehensive that scar tissue was laid down over her entire lower body, restricting not only her movement but also the growth and development of her muscles. She didn't experience any major problems until she began her strength training program, at which point her muscle growth ran into the wall of scar tissue encasing each bundle of contractile tissue. The downward spiral of pain and spasm ensued, restricting movement, blood/lymph flow, and impinging nerves in the region.

A blend of connective tissue, deep tissue, and Swedish techniques was successful in releasing these restrictions to create more functional scar tissue, decrease pain, increase range of motion, enable normal muscle growth, increase circulation, and normalize nerve function. Most importantly, she was able to return to a normally functioning life.

It is difficult to make a general statement about what tissues and structures massage therapy as a whole treats. The only true answer is, "It depends." It depends on what structures are dysfunctional in the particular client as well as what structures are best targeted by the modalities that any given practitioner has at hand. It depends on the working model of the body kept by the practitioner in his mind, on his technical knowledge, and on his intent.

So, to say that massage therapy reduces restrictions in soft tissue, relaxes muscles, and increases circulation is a true statement, but it completely glosses over the deeper implications of massage as a valuable field in complementary health. It truly is the tip of the iceberg.--Ryokan 18:12, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Massage Therapy usually treats relaxation and pain relief, and therefore is very subjective. However some therapy results can be measured by checking ROM and posture, etc. I had a 70 year old ballet instructor who tore a muscle at about 66, and by working on his scarring, etc, his improvement could be measured by his performance. 71.102.166.21 15:14, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

But the performance could improve without massage and through the natural healing process. It seems implossible to find a reliable control for such an experiment.

If massage therapy theories are based off physiology theories and laws, and, if massage therapy branched out of physiotherapy then shouldn't we be able to find research through their keywords? And I disagree with the above statement that it is impossible, massage therapist researchers have to start being involved in the research world. Iplantree 04:45, 15 August 2007 (UTC) I also would like to mention that injuries and dysfunction typically result in chronic and deteriorating conditions if left untreated. For example, poor posture. Chronic, contractures, soft tissue imbalances, and fascial adhesions and so on. These don't all go away in one day. This takes work, determination, and manipulation in some manner. If a natural healing process was used exclusively, this posture wouldn't exist and persist once that individual's causative factor had been removed. The massage therapists role in treating the client's presenting condition is to intentionally stimulate the body's physiological responses and reflexes to the client's advantage. Iplantree 05:30, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Work in Progress

I am an engineer and bodyworker. My engineer and science friends have progressed their respective wiki pages very well, because they are used to technical writing. Massage Therapists who practice their art well may still have trouble explaining the technical aspects and some do not use computers at all. I added a section, Barefoot, and may add to the massage section later when I learn some rules here.

Coming from rocket science, I am quite a skeptic, but have been convinced that all therapies that I have tried under qualified therapists can do something good. If it does some good, then why not check it out? There are many tried and documented benefits of massage, some of which can be found on my site svacina.com So let's keep it going and soon we'll have a good compendium! user= psnack

[edit] It's all down to the education . . . and your intent.

Massage, in my opinion refers to Swedish Massage, the soft flowing, relaxation variety. Soft Tissue Therapy (STT) involves assessment, treatment, and re-assessment. At present only a handful of therapists care to make the distinction. The "Massage Therapists" are happy to ride on the coat-tails of ST therapists who are making in-roads with the medical fraternity, but, alas, are often unable to produce the same results. This then disillusions the medical fraternity until they again come across a ST therapist who knows what they are doing.

The skilful, educated soft tissue therapist has a system for assessing, treating, and re-assessing every client they see; seeking to treat the tissues that lie beneath the skin. The massage therapist's "intent" goes no deeper than the skin's surface.

For the record, no therapist "cures" anything, we simply facilitate / mobilise the body's own resources. Doctors "fix" things by either poisoning (drugs) or carving it up (surgery).

As for "proof" . . . www.softtissuetherapy.com.au has a reference section that lists about 1,000 articles on "massage" (as it is still known, for now) . . . I had this amazing resource listed on "the wik" in the soft tissue therapy section until Dan removed it because of "spammy external link, no useful content I can see", I think it was. And no, it is not my website . . . (Euripides 23:38, 20 April 2006 (UTC))

What that website characterizes as "soft tissue therapy" appears to be the same thing as or an amalgamation of a few different massage modalities in the States, namely trigger point work. Seelie 02:53, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
My trigger point mentor also taught in Australia for several years, and has been working for top athletes since the 1984 Olympics, so for those who don't believe that TrP Therapy is real, they should check it out! Psnack 15:20, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Masage

Surprise! No scientific evidence that massage is pseudo-practice, no skeptics’ dictionary.

The page starts with: Where massage is used for its physical and psychological benefits, it may be termed "therapeutic massage therapy". There is no any may be, therapeutic massage is reality!

However right after previous sentence of this article reader can find:

• Massage can also be a part of lovemaking for many couples (see erotic massage, tantramassage), and often takes place in the context of sex work.

Erotic massage and prostitution has noting to do with therapeutic massage. If some people using word massage to cover up prostitution, nobody can blame therapeutic massage for that. Some prostitutes may use name exotic dancer to cover up, however the real dancers can not be called prostitutes and sex workers. Approximately 5 years ago in Chicago two prostitutes used massage therapy to cover up prostitution, but fail to name the school they graduate from. Anyway Police contacted all massage therapy schools.

• Due to the necessary physical contact between the practitioner and the client, sexual arousal (or signs of it) is possible, but rarely intentional.

I don’t remember name of the movie I recently watch, but I remember episode when very old man in the hospital asking young nurse to hold his penis. So base on this, probably realistic situation, everybody should make conclusion that in the hospitals certain sexual situations may happen between patients and nurses also possibly doctors. Common, how many times we saw love relations in medical offices in the movies?

• Except for modalities such as Thai Massage or Barefoot Deep Tissue, the massage subject is generally unclothed, and the body may be "draped" with towels or sheets.

Well, in our school of massage it is not matter of body may be "draped", it is must be draped. All textbooks contain explanation of how to do proper draping. It is not understandable to me why "may be" is used. And another termin "unclothed" , in hospitals patients wear only gowns which is very unreliable dressing. So what is it- positive sign or warning about possible dangerous sexual advances? What is this place finally: is it encyclopedia or police report?

Conclusion

This is insult for me and many other professional massage therapists. I would like to point everybody attention to MASSAGE THERAPISTS which is the legal name recognized by all authorities. If we have Massage therapists it means somewhere must be Therapeutic massage. Yet, in “Wikipedia” therapeutic massage page is not available. Page about Swedish massage (basic knowledge of every professional massage therapist) is the same as just a Massage page.

I have a question? Who prepared this page? I hope it is not discrediting campaign run by government funded agency! If this is not a campaign, than what? I was not able to find any such remarks on page “Medicine”. When we talk about hospitals do we always have to mention that this is a dengerous palace, because surgeons can replace knee joint in the healthy leg?

Finally I want to propose new page as Professional Therapeutic massage with possible link to page Massage. 06.10.06 Massage instructor: ogkmv@comcast.net

[edit] Pleasure

Why is massage pleasurable? Why is it even more pleasurable shortly after one has had an orgasm? My pet theory is that there is some kind of "magic powder" that accumulates in muscles, and deeply massaging the tissue dislodges the powder, after which it flows through the blood and reaches the brain. Orgasms release huge amounts of this powder, but some of it gets trapped in muscle tissue, and thus a massage shortly afterward dislodges this remnant. Totally unscientific and silly, I know, but what is really going on here? Inquiring minds want to know. I would also like to know why scalp massage is insanely pleasurable when done right. Thank you. Btw, the magic powder could be endorphins, but I got a C in cell bio. = (


If Wikipedia keeps this and removed page I started approximately a month ago about Therapeutic massage it means that Wikipedia running program to discredit Therapeutic massage. However this so called "encyclopedia" Is discredited in my eyes. LaCrosse 06.29.06

[edit] Separate pages with links....

There definitely needs to be a dicotomy between a simple definition of massage and the practices of therapeutic massage and bodywork. Bekados 04:40, 13 June 2006 (UTC)FL massage therapist 6.12.06

I completly support. LaCrosse 06.29.06

I agree. Where is the page for Massage Therapy or Therapeutic Massage? The former rederects to Massage and the latter does not exist. The article could adress concerns mentioned above (Therapy? What therapy?). --Kirien 09:05, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Massage Balls...

What's with the picture of those massage balls? Anyone else think they are irrelevant, particularly with regard to massage therapy? I'm sure we can come up with a more suitable picture than that! Sydney naturopath 12:29, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Professional Organizations

I considered moving AMTA from the "United States" to the "International" sub-section of Professional Organizations, and changing the text to read: *The [[American Massage Therapy Association]] ([[AMTA]]) is a non-profit professional organization that represents over 55,000 massage therapists in 27 countries, and in the United States is a recognized 501 c (6) non-profit organization.

I hesitate because the first "A" in AMTA is "American". I'd like to get feedback from other body workers. Also, I was surprised ABMP was listed under International, as I'd never read anything about them being international. I've searched their site and haven't found anything about their international presence, yet. —Daelin 20:25, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

As long as it has American in its name it would be confusing to list it under international. Especially citing an article from USA law would be odd indeed in an international section. −Woodstone 20:40, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

And yet, it is international, and appears to have a much stronger (by 21 countries) presence than ABMP. I don't think it's confusing; especially if you know that the organization has changed names twice before. Maybe remove the 501 c part. Also, it's simply known as AMTA, and only rarely spelled out, so that should be reversed in the text. —Daelin 12:24, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thai masssage nuat (or nuad)

The word "nuat" ends in the Thai letter ด. This letter is pronounced as "d" at the beginning of a word, but is always pronounced as "t" at the end of a word (or syllable). Wikipedia follows the Royal Thai General System of Transcription (RTGS). In this system, a final ด is transcribed as "t". Definitely the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) always follows sound, not spelling, so should have /t/. Finally, wikipedia has a policy of only one initial capital in article titles (except proper names). Traditional massage is just an ordinary Thai phrase. So the principal article is Nuat phaen boran. A redirect is present from Nuat Phaen Boran. −Woodstone 19:28, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Esalen massage

Is Eselan massage in some parts of the world not more known as Californain massage? Should we mention it?--Rcsmit 14:48, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] please structure

Please divide up therapeutic massage and the general term massage. Us professionals already spend plenty of energy defining our professional scope. The general term can mean anything from pure entertainment to erotic massage to giving a backrub and tantra and we don't want to be linked to this. I am sure the American Massage Association has a nice definition of therapeutic massage. I suggest that massage be divided into categories, depending on what massage PROVIDES or what it aims at. Thank you! Christian Herold, Zurich Switzerland xtian [at] swissonline.ch

Thank you for your suggestion. When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the edit this page link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to).WLU 22:24, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This article is heavily biased

First, it claims that massage has certain medical benefits without sourcing them, and there are several positive statements about massage while there are no criticisms whatsoever. Hell, some of the claims have been proven false, such as that it increases circulation in a beneficial way (there have been doppler ultrasound studies on this) or that it speeds healing. Hey, if you're going to make a bunch of unsourced medical claims, why not throw the long-standing myth about massage ridding your body of lactic acid in there as well?--207.118.44.110 03:08, 2 June 2007 (UTC)


I would like to know why you say 'myth' and not 'theory' 206.116.65.154 01:13, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I am a massage therapist and I agree we should have research in this article. Bronayur 17:03, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] lomilomi edits

Hello, I edited the lomilomi section to be consistent with documented history and the lomilomi page. I especially felt compelled to take out the sentence that lomilomi was "demonstrated" in the movie, "Meet the Fockers." Barbara Streisand purported to give Robert DeNiro a lomilomi, but it was not an accurate depiction. Makana Chai 08:20, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi there thanks so much for your help, I was thinking that would add a section on massage represented in media. I think it would be better that you actually write that lomilomi was purported to have been given in "Meet The Frockers" but it was not accurate. I mean since this was such a popular movie we should set to debunking the myth because correct information is our goal. Bronayur 16:42, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for making the change. An article on massage in the media would be really fun to read. I cringed every time it was mentioned on Friends. Makana Chai 18:38, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Subjective, based on which research?

the article states:

Tui Na has fewer side effects than modern drug-based and chemical-based treatments. It has been used to treat or complement the treatment of many conditions; musculoskeletal disorders and chronic stress-related disorders of the digestive, respiratory, and reproductive systems.

I think this section should go because it's not based on scientific data and also the comparison between tui na and modern medicine doesn't really hold. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.87.98.224 (talk) 22:24, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Practices not found

Please help me add these to Wikipeda they might fall into several catergories, it is hard to catergorize some of them because of the heavy advertisment effect on new practices, I am trying to get their core philosophies/techniques into writing, strict massage, energy therapies, movement therapies etc. They are coming from Somatic disciplines.Bronayur 01:39, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Research findings needed

Why are there not more citations to hard research? A 2-minute search led me to this compendium of research articles http://www.internethealthlibrary.com/Therapies/MassageTherapy-Research.htm Makana Chai 00:33, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your search. I was thinking that we might want to start narrowing down the research since all research is not created equal. I would like to include the most valid and respectable studies. We also really need someone to research techniques from the sources most closely related with that particular technique. I often find it hard to decipher the physical techniques along with the philosophy behind the techniques so that we can blend them into larger concepts such as chi, marma, etc. Bronayur 23:28, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I have started removing claims of efficacy that are not from peer reviewed sources. If these claims were presented in the form of "Proponents of massage therapy have stated that it improves..." I would leave them but the article stated that certain forms of treatment were effective with no scientific evidence. All claims of treatment efficacy need to be supported with evidence. Also original articles should be referenced instead of biased sources (massage proponent websites). JamesStewart7 (talk) 06:11, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Beneficicial effects section: Poor quality studies

As the heading for this section is "beneficial effects" and not "claimed beneficial effects" or "perceived beneficial effects" or "Uses" it seems logical that any claimed beneficial effect that is not supported by evidence should be removed from this section.

NCBI cancer study was referenced multiple times. I amended the first reference to include a note on the studies lack of controls and removed subsequent references that claim massage is a cure for anxiety and depression. Regression to the mean and placebo effects could easily account for the effects found in this study so a claim that massage reduces anxiety and depression with no caution is unsatisfactory. Also the article reads like anxiety and depression reducing effects were supported in a sample with no comorbid conditions. It completely failed to mention that the sample was of cancer patients when the study was used to support these claims. This study has been referenced many times and it is simply insufficient to support many of the claims. As such, a fair amount of text has been removed.

The NCCAM reference used to support the claim that massage therapy increases general well being. The NCCAM source, however, deliberately avoided making claims that massage therapy actually does work eg. "How massage therapy might work" so this claim has been removed. Subsequent NCCAM references in which a claimed effect of massage has been presented as a true effect, using this source as evidence have been removed.

Touch research institute claims. I removed those studies in which it is completely unclear what evidence is being referenced. A left a few references in which the original study was described. However, I would like the reference changed to the original study so that I and others may review the evidence to check that the claims are, in fact, valid.

Sunflower therapy. If you read the original article, you'll find that the researchers don't actually believe that massage therapy should be implemented to improve self esteem or that this effect can be reliably indicated "At present, it is unclear if improvements in self-esteem by the dyslexic children were related to the treatment received, or more general attention factors associated with participation in a University research programme." so I have removed this reference.

Policy statements, especially those that are from organisations such as the University of Michigan Integrative Medicine, cannot be used to support the efficacy of any treatment. Research evidence is neeeded. Claims of efficacy based on policy statements without supporting evidence have been removed.JamesStewart7 (talk) 07:31, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV tag

I have placed this tag for numerous reasons: - The article is largely unscientific. Many claims of efficacy are unreferenced. I have removed many but there are many more. There is little to nothing on the scientific evidence suggesting that many massage treatements do not work for there purported purpose. There is no note of the difficulty of creating trials with suitable controls due to the manual nature of the treatments (see chiropractic article). Many (all?) of the trails that are used to support the efficacy of a particular treatment in this article either completely lack any controls or have not placebo/alternative treatment group. - The types of massage section makes extensive reference to the creators of the technique, often given the appearance of expertise which may give the technique undue credibilitiy eg "John Harris, who worked in the 1984 Olympics developed this modality.", "His service was appreciated; he received the high accolade of being appointed ‘Shampooing Surgeon’ to both George IV and William IV.". - There are numerous references to concepts such as the chakra and other mystical/supernatural/spiritual concepts with no note that these are supernatural concepts. - There are notes that a particular massage treatment is used/utlized for a particular disease eg "x massage is used to treat Parkison's disesase" without a note that there is no scientific evidence for the efficacy of this treatment. I have removed many of these references but I'm sure I have missed some. - The extensive coverage on usage rates may imply that massage is effective through heuristics such as the bandwagon effect. - The introduction describes how massage might work for a whole bunch of purposes. Designating a mechanism is premature as there is little evidence massage provides effective relief for these purporses in the first place. The introduction in general fails to accurately represent the scientific status of massage therapy.

I could go on but I think you get the point.JamesStewart7 (talk) 08:19, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the clean up. Agree that we need good studies reported. Rather than removing references I would prefer to see language such as "proponents claim" or "this modality is used for" and note the lack of evidence. Definitely agree about chakras. You disagree with the article "often given the appearance of expertise which may give the technique undue credibilitiy eg "John Harris, who worked in the 1984 Olympics developed this modality.", "His service was appreciated; he received the high accolade of being appointed ‘Shampooing Surgeon’ to both George IV and William IV." Although I do agree that there are some inappropriate instances, the latter one, at least, I think is worthwhile as showing the historic esteem in which it was held. Similarly, if John Harris provided massage under the auspices of the US Olympic Committee or some such other official body, it would be relevant, I think. I encourage you to find studies that are controlled and report them as well. Thank you. Makana Chai (talk) 22:53, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
I considered this approach. WP:FRINGE should probably be consulted for guidance in this area, given some of the claims; "The notability of a fringe theory should be judged by statements from verifiable and reliable sources, not the proclamations of its adherents" Many of the claims I removed from the massage methods section were not sourced at all so they were removed as per WP:Fringe. I also completely removed some claims from the beneficial effects section, where the claims were presented as fact, often by distoring what the source actually says. I chose to remove these sources completely, instead of using the "proponents claim format..." primarily because of the section title; "Beneficial effects". I feel this section should be reserved for scientifically verifiable effects. Perhaps a seperate section could be created for claimed effects, similar to what you see in the Homeopathy (Treatments section for claims, Medical and scientific analysis for evidence). All the NCCAM sources I removed could be readded to such a section. As far as demonstrating that, for example, people hold John Harris in high esteem goes (shampooing surgeon), I have no real problem with this provided such information is included in the history or prevalance/popularity section" I removed such references because they were placed right next to claims that x massage is useful for y purpose. With an approach such as this, we may be able to both cleanup the article and resolve POV disputes at the same time.JamesStewart7 (talk) 03:51, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I am removing the POV tag per documentation on {{POV}}: "Do not use this template unless there is an ongoing dispute." More than three months have passed since anyone has discussed this, which strongly indicates that the dispute is not ongoing, even if the article is not in perfect condition. The POV template should not be used as a badge of shame. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:35, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:28, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cachunga Massage

This sounds woo-woo to me. Does anyone have a citation to a reputable source for this? Makana Chai (talk) 18:22, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Horstmann technique

I tagged it as citation needed but honestly I think it should be removed if someone can't elaborate. As it is, it's totally uninformative - it could say "blibble blabble bloo" and I'd understand just as much about this supposed technique as I do now. --Dbutler1986 (talk) 02:47, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Trigger Point Therapy Section

I noticed a reference to Pressure Point, which is typically Reflexology. The only thing that these modalities have in common with Trigger Point Therapy is the word "point." I hope that someone will point that out. I previously wrote the Barefoot section, only to have it promptly removed, so I have been hesitant to spend my time on wiki. Now maybe increased popularity due to Dara Torres, 40-yr old olympic swimmer who gets barefoot, has prompted a replacement? Psnack (talk) 04:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)