Talk:Mashriq

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Contents 1 Change for the worse in definition 2 Sudan 3 Removed comment from article (claiming that the sun sets in the east!) to here 4 Arabia proper 5 Merge with Middle East 6 mashriq and Maghrib

[edit] Change for the worse in definition

Dear IP 68.43.242.130 , Jordan is usually considered to be part of the Mashriq, and so is Palestine as an Arab region (before Israel came along). In fact, in medieval times, the eastern half of Libya (Cyrenaica) was sometimes considered to be part of the Mashreq, so that the Maghreb was considered to begin in Western Libya (Tripolitania). Please don't remove valid info from the article. AnonMoos 14:43, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sudan

Where does the Sudan fit in to the Maghreb/Mashreq level of Arab geography? Is it thought of as a region of its own? Or part of some Nile Valley region, with Egypt? QuartierLatin1968 01:00, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I would guess that it's more "south" than it is either east or west -- just like Arabia... AnonMoos 21:16, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Sudan is a region on its own. It is distinct from Mashriq, Maghreb, Egypt, and Arabia. The last time I heard of Sudan and Egypt being classified together was in old Egyptian movies from the 40's when Sudan was still Anglo-Egyptian Sudan.

[edit] Removed comment from article (claiming that the sun sets in the east!) to here

Note : Maghreb is also the name of an Islamic prayer, for the sunset, which refers to the fact that the sun sets to the east and rises to the east (the morning prayer just before the sun rises is Fajr, not Mashreq, however.) -- Arabic Pilot

[edit] Arabia proper

Is the Mashreq commonly meant to include Arabia proper? So far, my understanding had been that this term used the astronomical descriptor to conveniently divide the Arab world into two halves, one Asiatic and one African, separated by the Red Sea and the Suez/Sinai region. Is this assumption accurate? // Big Adamsky • BA's talk page 21:27, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

No it doesn't usually include Arabia, and (as written above) sometimes historically (but not usually currently) Egypt was included in the Mashreq (since the deserts west of the Nile are a significant ecological barrier). I would guess that it refers basically to the post-conquest territories. AnonMoos 22:12, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks AM, I guess I will have to re-edit a few articles accordingly then. :] // Big Adamsky • BA's talk page 22:19, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

---

P.S. Here's one regional map (though it splits up Arabia proper in a quasi-unconventional way): Image:Regions - Arab League.PNG -- AnonMoos (talk) 20:13, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merge with Middle East

• Against for reasons given on that pageJohnbod 04:04, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose -- Middle east is extremely vague and imprecise, while Mashriq is somewhat more specific, and also narrower. In modern use, "Mashriq" usually excludes Egypt, while everyone would say that Egypt is part of the Middle East! It may not seem tidy, but there are reasons why Wikipedia has separate articles covering a whole series of partially overlapping geographical terms (Mashriq, Levant, Bilad al-Sham, Greater Syria, Fertile Crescent, Middle East, etc.) -- each term has its own particular distinct historical context and range of variations in use. AnonMoos 08:52, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Considering both this and the Mashriq pages have discussions against a merge, I am going to take the liberty of removing the merge tags. Joshdboz 19:59, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] mashriq and Maghrib

Historically the Mashriq is considered Bilad asham and Egypt...

in the Modern World, the Mashriq is Considered the Eastern part of the Arab World, this includes Egypt, Sudan, Arabia and the Levant...

While Maghrib includes Morocco, Mauritania, Libya, W. Sahara, Algeria and Tunisia...

Other Arab States are in East africa, such as Somalia, Djibouti, and comoros, dont really have a name, i guess the Arab Horn of Africa has been used a couple of times... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arab League (talk • contribs) 13:30, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

As a note to my reversion, let me note that I agree with our Egyptian friend, User Arab League, that in modern Arabic usage, Machriq is often used to include everything Arab to the East of Libya, and Maghreb to the West of Libya or Egypt. His use of Arab States of East Africa, well, that's bollocks, but can be ignored. The categorical statements in article and in discussion here taking minimalist views of Mashriq and Maghreb reflect excessively literalist and not usage focused definitions. (collounsbury (talk) 11:37, 8 February 2008 (UTC)) 14:22, 3 February 2008 (UTC)) [sorry bollixed up signing.]

In the middle ages, Mashriq sometimes included Cyrenaica and regions eastward, while Maghrib would correspondingly include Tripolitania and regions westward, but I don't think that that's the most usual modern definition... AnonMoos (talk) 15:00, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Define "usual modern definition." In the Maghreb, when people say "Mashriq" they mean everything East of Libya. Egypt seems to me to have mixed usage, but Egypt is at a transition point. Strikes me that asserting ipso facto that the narrow definition of Mashriq is the "usual one" is without basis. Usual perhaps in certain locales, but for a whole sweep of North African Arabic, it is quite usual. (collounsbury (talk) 11:35, 8 February 2008 (UTC))