Talk:Mashiro Kazahana

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Contents 1 Cleanup 2 Mashiro vs Manshiro 3 Relation to Reito 4 Fair use rationale for Image:Otome Mashiro.jpg 5 Fair use rationale for Image:My-HiME s01e26.png 6 Fair use rationale for Image:Mashiro as Fumi's Child.jpg

[edit] Cleanup

How can this page be cleaned up? Anyone gonna move this page to Mashiro Kazahana so we can include her info as well? --Warp L. Obscura 13:53, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mashiro vs Manshiro

What's the point? The real Mashiro makes about 3 appearances, and the other characters still call the male Mashiro even after his gender is revealed. I don't see the point in differentiating between the two, since there is only 1 effective Mashiro for most of the manga series. Phony Saint 16:02, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

The term is a verifiable piece of fanon (see references, conduct that search for yourself on AnimeSuki if you must), being significant to the fan-based discussion of the manga. Given that few, if any, published works have been written on the subject by fans, we are forced to recourse to online sources, as undesirable as WP:RS would have it. Furthermore, it creates unnecessary bulk to have to differentiate Manshiro and Mashiro by addition of a "fake"/"false" as opposed to "true"/"real". --Warp L. Obscura 06:01, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

It's not that I doubt that fans have nicknames for characters, it's that I don't see why it's necessary to bring in fansites in the first place. The main Mashiro in the manga series is the male one, so we may as well refer to him as simply "Mashiro". When we need to refer to the original female Mashiro, we can call her the "real Mashiro" or some such distinction. Having a few extra words doesn't make for bad policy, but using dubious sources does. Phony Saint 21:40, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Answer a simple question, then: Are "dubious" sources worse than having no sources at all? How does the site support your stand? The fact is that with this sort of thing, there are no "reliable" print sources to refer to other than the original. Besides, if you will note the History, you will notice that active and knowledgeable editors, like Katsuhagi for example, have seen no wrong in its usage. You are the first. If there was a problem, it would have been corrected long ago. The term first turned up in a revision made on 21 July 2006, more than half a year ago. If nothing else, the fact that the term still persists despite the page having undergone so many revisions is a strong argument for its truth value. --Warp L. Obscura 15:42, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

For your first question, yes. The WP guidelines state that sources are necessary, but they don't state that if you don't have a reliable source other than the original work, you should use an unreliable source instead. Under WP:ATT's Key Principles: "Original research refers to material that is not attributable to a reliable, published source. This includes ... neologisms," which Manshiro is. Fan forums and blogs are not reliable. The actual manga, which is reliable, refers to him as Mashiro.

"If nothing else, the fact that the term still persists despite the page having undergone so many revisions is a strong argument for its truth value." No, it isn't. You can't use a Wikipedia article as a source for another article, much less for itself. Or to put it another way: Does Natsuki Kuga really want revenge on the Searrs Foundation, just because that has been on her page for the past 6 months? (Episode 9 states that it's the First District.)

Also, why does Musicalmelodygirl state in the latest revision that it's consensus to keep the page as Mashiro Blan de Windbloom? I see a lack of decision rather than consensus. Phony Saint 19:53, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

If you disagree with my reliabilist argument, then might I advise you to achieve a consensus and invite those who have contributed to the article since the stated revision to discuss? Me excepted, of course. I will accept whatever the agreement leads to, even if it goes a way I disagree with.

I am also not responsible for the actions of Musicalmelodygirl. If you see a problem with the action (wait, whatami saying... obviously you do, otherwise you wouldn't have brought it up), feel free to User_talk about it on her page. Thank you. :) --Warp L. Obscura 09:25, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I would be for sticking with Manshiro, for some of the reasons stated here, but I can see the arguments for Mashiro too. My only concern is that it would be confusing, as the Manshiro nickname prevents this. The fact that there are two of them in the manga (for other characters they are differentiated by their surnames) might warrant the Manshiro, or possibly Prince Mashiro or Princess Mashiro respectively. Katsuhagi 16:37, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of whether or not the term "Manshiro" is helpful, it doesn't meet the criteria listed out in WP:ATT, WP:RS, and WP:NEO. Animesuki and Narutofan are not reliable sources, unless WarpObscura can prove so. We also have an alternative: just referring to them as "Mashiro" and "the real Mashiro", or "the fake Mashiro" and "the real Mashiro". There's nothing wrong with adding a few extra words, while there is a problem with using Manshiro. Phony Saint 17:46, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Barring any protests that actually have Wikipedia policy to back them up (Good luck with that), I will be removing any usage of "Manshiro" from all articles shortly, precisely for the same reasons that Phony Saint mentions above. And in any case, completely fan-made (By the occidental fanbase only, I may add) nicknames are NEVER acceptable as major denominators.

Though I'd like to make a distinction and use "Female Mashiro" instead of "Real Mashiro" in most cases. It's a minor detail, but it takes care of a little problem: The male Mashiro turned out to also be a "Real Mashiro" as well in the end, and we don't know if he had a different name or not. Ephyon 20:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Relation to Reito

"Mashiro reveals that 300 years ago she was the younger sister to the Obsidian Lord, similar to Mikoto Minagi now."

Where is it mentioned that Mashiro was Reito's younger sister in a previous HiME carnival? In episode 21 she only mentions that she had loved him before. Agent Low 12:45, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

• Reito didn't even exist during the previous HiME carnival. He's merely a human host for the Obsidian Lord. This looks like fanon. - Sikon 12:52, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I replaced the abovementioned purely with what Mashiro mentioned in the episode, feel free to correct it. Agent Low 06:45, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Otome Mashiro.jpg

Image:Otome Mashiro.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:59, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:My-HiME s01e26.png

Image:My-HiME s01e26.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 21:04, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Mashiro as Fumi's Child.jpg

Image:Mashiro as Fumi's Child.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 15:15, 8 March 2008 (UTC)