User talk:Mark Choo
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Welcome! (We can't say that loudly enough!)
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--Terence Ong (C | R) 09:32, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Responding to your opinions on your edits in City Harvest Church article.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Let me share what I feel about editing in Wiki.
Wiki is above all, a neutral source of information regarding the subject matter, may it be negative or positive. I just thought it is not neutral to focus on the one person (Sun Ho in this case) when writing about an organisation, especially the person is not as notable in the church as the senior pastor. Your statement: "The general understanding of the morals that a church is supposed to stand for VS the superficial material image of pop star is highlighted here. Whilst you make a good point that the Way of Life group is by no means a well known organisation, it is important the wikipedia provides its readers with as many relevant points of views as possible. For a church to support the pop star status of it's (ex?)pastor contradicts the values that a church is supposed to inculcate" is at best a personal opinion. What dictate a "general understanding of the morals" of a church? Why is a church "supporting" a pop star staus of it's ex-pastor "contradicts" the values that a church is "supposed" to inculate. From here, you already decided or dictate how a church should act or believe. This is not writing a "neutral" piece of information - this is more like an opinion. I am not trying to defend the church, but I would like to see the article being neutral and reporting facts, rather than writing of one's opinion.
From what I know, Sun Ho also received some "Best International young person" award from Sweden, which is rather prestigous. But would that add to the church? Why don't we include this piece of information also, along with many other good Sun Ho did (started two orphanages in China, got herself into China's first day cover stamps, etc).
I am still of the opinion that whatever happen to Sun Ho, should remain with her, especially now that she is no longer the pastor of the church. If it was Kong Hee that got all those controversy, than yes, by all means, include them into the article because at the moment, Kong Hee represents the church (just like Lee Kuan Yew represented the state PAP). But I believe it is good journalism to leave Sun Ho out of City Harvest Church article, in order to remain neutral.Atticuslai 03:12, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] pop star?
Firstly, tt seems that you have a certain opinion about "pop star", a label which is usually given by the media. I don't know about you, but I don't find (and I am a Christian) "pop star" all that offending. Whether Sun Ho is a pop star or not is besides the point - but your opinion about pop star is probably not a common, or even a popular one among many people. There are certainly many "pop stars" with clean images and less to do with the Amercian type such as Britney Spear or Madonna. Would you say Taufik Batista, our last year Singaporean Idol a pop star? Or how about Josh Groban? How about Mr. Clean - Jacky Cheung?
Getting into the Bible, where in the scripture did God talked about pop star? Let's not talk about idol-worshipping because you can worship anything as idol, including money, bachelor degree, your children, etc. If anyone worship a pop star, then God deals with the person, not the pop star. If the pop star are sinful, such as abusing drugs, licentious, then God will deal with the singer. But where in the Bible did God talked about not "associating" with pop star? Which principle in the Ten Commandments that forbid a Christian to support a pop star in his/her singing. Would it be the same man-made laws that forbid Christian from listening to rock music or watching television?
And then, I am talking about Christians supporting Sun Ho as a singer. But where did you get the facts about the church supporting Sun Ho? What kind of support? Here are the facts:
- Not one cent from the church was used to promote Sun Ho's material or her "stardom".
- No one was forced to support (buy her CD) or listen to Sun Ho's music.
- The members of City Harvest Church supported Sun Ho as a singer, in their own capacity. Just as they would support their favourite movie stars, singers, etc.
With that in mind, I think your edit is lacking in neutrality.
[edit] Your final response
Thanks for sharing your final response and I appreciate your opinions. I have a lot more to share about this particular issue, and has some insight which you might find enlightening. However, I don't think the wiki user talk page is not a good platform to do that, and so if you are interested to know more, feel free to drop me an email at atticus_lai@yahoo.com to continue the discussion. Cheers! Atticuslai 02:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Jing13 06:07, 20 December 2006 (UTC) Removal Of Certain Sections
I have removed the section "Prominent Members" for City Harvest Church for [1]
Please provide valid citations for the section under "Controversy" for He Yao Sun
[edit] Removal of SUN "Distancing herself from the church"
The section about SUN's interview with PR.com written by Mark Choo had been removed due to the following reasons :
In Mark Choo's own words she further distanced herself from the church, this is clearly his own personal opinion and not a NPOV.
The whole extract about the interview can be found at [2]. At no point in the interview had she denied anything about the Church.
As such, the statement about Sun Ho that she further distanced herself from the church is controversial and sensationalized. There is no source, no citation or any evidence to point to this fact. To quote from Wikipedia again, "Controversial material of any kind that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous."
Jing13 02:10, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] [edit] SUN as co-founder of City Harvest Community Services Association
The section on SUN as the co-founder of City Harvest Community Services Association had been removed as the reference given is from a web site run by an individual. [1] This source might not be reliable.
There is no mention that SUN is the co-founder of City Havest Community Services Association in the Community Services Association's web site [3] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jing13 (talk • contribs) 02:45, 14 January 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Ho Yeow Sun
The "battle" isn't over yet, the page is just protected now -- I'd appreciate it if you keep the page on your watchlist and help out when they start reverting again. Sigh. Jpatokal 13:19, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Hiya,
This is a difficult and all-too-common situation. You might find Wikipedia:Disruptive editing to be interesting reading. The most important thing is to try to engage the other party in sincere dialogue. This is necessary even, or rather especially, when the other party does not seem to be sincere.
There are two reasons why seeking consensus is important: 1. it frequently works! 2. if it fails, you can show that you tried and that the two sides of the dispute are not on equal footing. Based on a review of the pages you linked to -- a fairly cursory review, I'll admit -- it doesn't seem like very much has been done to seek consensus there. Until that changes, you will probably find it difficult to get support from the broader community.
If you do find that the editor(s) in question are acting in unquestionably bad faith, please post a detailed report on WP:AN/I, where you can reach a broad spectrum of admins. It may well be that other admins will see things differently than I do. Cheers, -- Visviva 16:09, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
