User talk:Marasmusine/Archive 2

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] !

		The Photographer's Barnstar
		Marasmusine, I award you the Photographer's Barnstar in apprechiation of your excellant spider images. Kamope · talk · contributions 23:29, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Why thankyou! I have some nice photos of snails and bugs too, but nothing that isn't already represented on Wikipedia. Marasmusine 19:38, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I figured out you might have some more pictures since on your userpage it says that those are your images used in articles. May you please provide some links to the pictures so I can see them? Kamope · talk · contributions 23:55, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I've uploaded a few more onto my user page. I might upload a picture of my pet husky-cross dog too, if I can get away with it. Marasmusine 10:23, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I've put one of the snail pictures on Helix aspersa. Kamope · talk · contributions 13:27, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I think you'll find i have added a considerable amount of detail to the page Broken metal. I also asked for your advice on my talk page Kangphil This is what was on my talk page regarding the page Broken Metal: "Page Creator: I am still trying to gather information to put on this page, do you have any suggestions of how i could improve it? If i stated more facts about the functions of the pages would this help make it appropriate for wikipedia? Broken Metal is similar to the game Stars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stars%21 in that they are both turn based, have similar themes (space) a makor difference benig how they are played, Broken Metal is an online game, and Stars can be played by email. Kangphil 10:24, 9 March 2007 (GMT)"

Hi Kangphil. The article can be improved by showing that Broken Metal is a notable game, as encyclopedia entries are of notable things. The guideline for software (and therefore browser games) is here: WP:SOFTWARE. Here is the important bit: Software is notable if it has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the software's author(s).

So if the game has had any magazines reviews, for example, that needs to be put in. More detail probably isn't a great idea. Marasmusine 15:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean by published works? The site is on other game sites, where the game if ranked in accordance popularity? Free Games and MPOGD are examples of this.Kangphil 15:09, 9 March 2007 (GMT)

From WP:SOFTWARE:

This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, user guides, television documentaries, and full-length magazine reviews except for the following:

Media reprints of press releases, other publications where the author or manufacturer talks about the software, and advertising for the software. Newspaper stories that do not credit a reporter or a news service and simply present company news in an uncritical or positive way may be treated as press releases unless there is evidence to the contrary.

Trivial coverage, such as newspaper articles that simply report version releases without comment, price listings in product catalogues, or listings on software download sites.

So a mention on a game ranking site isn't an indicator of notability. Like I mentioned above, a review in a magazine (or a notable internet site) should be fine. Marasmusine 15:22, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I cannot find a website, i dont know about articles published in the U.S. .Kangphil 15:33, 9 March 2007 (GMT)

I've had a quick look myself but couldn't find any notable websites that mention it. It could simply be the case that this game isn't notable enough yet. Sorry if I sounded a bit curt in my comments above and I hope this won't put you off editing other articles. Marasmusine 16:07, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Its ok, i won't be wasting anymore of my time on this anyway, especially if it will only get deleted.Kangphil 16:32, 9 March 2007 (GMT)

[edit] Deletion of The Skull Defekts

I do not understand the reasons for your "speedy deletion" tagging and the and subsequent deletion of the The Skull Defekts article. It/the band fulfils quite a few of the criteria listed in the notability article for bands. For instance 5, Members were previlusly active in Union Carbide Productions, Kid commando and Anti-Cimex and 6, the band is the most prominent act of both the Gothenburg and Swedish electronic scenes. Qmwpeto 17:08, 6 May 2007 (CET)

Hello Qmwpeto. I don't remember tagging that article, and I certainly didn't delete it. Marasmusine 15:13, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion Of Google My Way

Googel my way is a very good personalised version of google. Many people use it everyday. As it is a veriation of Google, should it be put under Google? Djmckee1 15:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Djmckee1 (talk • contribs) 15:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

Hi Djmckee1! If Google My Way has it's own claim of notability it could possibly keep it's own article. Have a read through WP:WEB, and if you think you can cite some references which show it's notability, you could try the article again. In either case I wouldn't mention it on the main Google; but it could go in the Category:Google category. Marasmusine 16:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed Deletion of DROD Monsters

Please help me understand how it falls under WP:NOT when it's actually just an extension of the original article. It might seem that what you really meant is that it shouldn't have been categorized under Video Games, which causes it to appear on various lists. The design decision for separating the list from the main article stems from following the pattern of Doom article. Consult List_of_enemies_in_Doom. I'm not a policy man, so please explain it to me in small words. Maurog 04:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi Maurog, thanks for replying. I feel the two articles are borderline 'game guide', are unreferenced, and have no notability on their own. List_of_enemies_in_Doom isn't a brilliant article but such a page can be justified because the enemies themselves are referenced in popular culture (due to the high notability of the game.)

If you still disagree, feel free to remove the prod tag. I'll see how the pages develop then in a few weeks possibly take them to articles for discussion if I feel the same way. Thanks, Marasmusine 07:15, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree that they have no notability on their own, because they are inseparable part of the original article. You cannot apply 'game guide' policy - if you check the articles in question, you will see that they "present facts, not teach a subject matter" and don't "include instructions or advice, suggestions, or contain 'how-to's". As for references, please add the appropriate tags where references are needed and they will be provided. I will remove the prod tags for now, but add a copy of this dialogue to discussion pages of both articles. Maurog 07:33, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

No problem, took them down and added to talk pages (because I misread your last sentence and thought you asked me to do it :>) Marasmusine 07:39, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

You ninja! I got an edit conflict... Maurog 07:42, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry! I'll also add some cvgproj tags and list them on the project page. Marasmusine 07:44, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No worries

The page was a mess. Although I'm an admin, I voted myself so I can't close the debate, but I thought I'd make it a bit easier for whoever does so. Orderinchaos78 11:21, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] FWIW

Hello ... FWIW, the "original editor" of Superdeterminism is User:Superdeterminism who is the person behind the man described in the article Archimedes Plutonium. This article has been up for AfD for several days with quite a discussion. Regards, Keesiewonder ^talk 11:07, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed that; might be best to scrap the article and start it again once things have settled down. Marasmusine 12:33, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion of Drumgod Clan page

Hello, I'm afraid I dont quite understand how this is a violation, this is about a well established group of gamers who have had a substantial impact on the Call of Duty gaming community, it doesnt promote any one person, as far as Notability, this group helps promote fair and responsible gaming for all ages. So, if you could tell me what I would need to do to put this within your guidelines, I would appreciate it! Thank You! Dgcvengeance

Hi, I can't remember now exactly what was on that article, but gaming clans normally aren't notable. WP:NOTE is the Wikipedia guideline on notability, the main bit being this: "A notable topic has been the subject of at least one substantial or multiple non-trivial published works that are reliable and independent of the subject."

So if there are any magazine articles or suchlike which are about the clan, that should be enough to make a good article.

The other important aspect is verifiablity, which is policy rather than guideline. The information is here: WP:V. Basically articles here should only report what has already been reported by sources independent of the gaming clan itself (which is the 'primary source').

I hope that provides enough information for you organize a good article, thanks. Marasmusine 14:40, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cursed (Japanese film)

Hi, I'm just commenting on you re-adding the link at Cursed (Japanese film). I reverted that edit, along with every other made by the author, since that account has no edits other than adding links to the same site, ie. he's not interested in adding a link to a good review here, he's interested in getting traffic to his own site. (See WP:SPAM#External_link_spamming for more if you care.) However, if you feel the link is more useful than eg. the reviews linked from imdb, by all means leave it there. Generally, a slew of links to reviews isn't useful for a film article though. Thanks. - Bobet 20:34, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I understand your motivation now. I'd like to keep the link for now though as I've been looking for references for it, and the review seems well written. Thanks, Marasmusine 21:29, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Articles

You're right , that might make the section more useful, but up we've recently had people tag hundreds of articles a day. That seems to be slowing down, so maybe we can add that in sometime soon. Anyways, thanks for adding newly created articles! --PresN 00:24, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] SH stuff

Nope. The website I got that tidbit from does not exist anymore. Feel free to look for it yourself. It is true though, that's why I re-added it. If you're deleting aspects that don't have sources, why did you leave the "PAL version doesn't have mumblers" point? That one, I know, is true, but there's no source (last time I checked anyway). --Thaddius 15:27, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi, what article are you talking about? Marasmusine 15:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What is your problem?

I know why you keep putting on this "deletion thing" on the mod Destructive Forces; you support another mod. See, i knew it. And a question, this is a mod article like ShockWave (game mod). IF so, it should be deleted too. Or, tell me, why do you want to delete this? It is very different from the previous article.

I did not create this mod nor do I know Emil Odepark.

Destructive Forces was deleted by concensus through AfD (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Destructive Forces), due to notability issues. I haven't yet turned my attention to ShockWave. If you're interested, the notability guideline for software is here: WP:SOFTWARE. Marasmusine 07:51, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Assessments

Hey, no problem, I try to keep the unassessed category empty, especially since we only recently managed to finally clear it out after years of it having thousands of articles in it. I don't mind whether you assess it or not, as along as it's tagged I'll find it. --PresN 18:56, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User:Bjrobinson

Thanks for speaking up for me. Bjrobinson really has it in for me since I followed his suggestion of looking at the non-notable articles in the MMO Broswer game section, which lead to the deletion of some 40 articles. Look on his talk page to see that he apparantly flipped out when I thanked him for bringing all the articles to my attention. DarkSaber2k 10:39, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Woah, your enforcement of Wikipedia policy is a "wiki-crime"? Reminds me of when I got called a "wikiterrorist" :> Marasmusine 11:44, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not so bothered by the name calling, I've been called worse by nicer people. But I am concerned about the fact that he seems hell bent on taking this to ArbCom, even though he A) Doesn't know anything about ArbCom and B) Hasn't followed the dispute process through to ArbCom (which it quite clearly states you have to have done before they will consider the case.) I think he's pretty fed up with me pulling up policies and guidelines to reference my answers to his accusations, he always spends the time arguing that things like WP:RS, WP:N and WP:V shouldn't apply to what he calls 'minority interests' (Which, from my experience so far, means 'Broswer-based MMOs that don't have a single reliable source to their name'). DarkSaber2k 11:51, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

'Hell bent' is a little harsh, it’s an idea floated only this morning. And as we have discussed, all this wiki nonsense is all so horribly complicated and time consuming... dunno.

As i have said I don't even play any of these games I would feel as strongly about many other subjects, but haven’t 'ended up' getting involved.

Hmm. Well you see, I have been quietly contributing for over two years, and I have never had a problem like this, with anyone else. At all.

I feel we should leave it for the time being and move on. We have dragged our petty arguments over 3 - 4 other users talk pages now and spammed both mine and yours to death with it... Bjrobinson 14:59, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

There is nothing petty about this. You have publicly attempted to defame me in an AfD, you have made numerous personal attacks, you have implied I am mentally ill, you have threatened to take me to the highest level of disciplinary available, you consistently assume policies don't apply to what you call 'minority interests', you have essentially said you are a better person than me because you edit/improve existing articles whereas I patrol and remove tag inappropriate pages, you have refused to assume good faith on the flimsiest of pretexts (my contributions list, hardly the evidence of intentional malice that is required.) And all this is because of consequences to something YOU suggested. And unlike your assertions of malice, I can provide evidence for each and every one of the above points. Not to mention that you seem to think this is in some way funny. Does this quote sound familiar? Anyway I'm off to actually contribute to articles now. After all I have a funny feeling that's the point? There's an article on urban renewal that needs a good going over. Although i will admit this is more fun. (Bold word was already like that in original post, italics added by me to emphasise the point I'm making.) DarkSaber2k 15:35, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

(resetting indent) Maramusine, sorry this happened on your talk page, but I been taking a lot of crap from this guy for the last week or 2. DarkSaber2k 15:45, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

No problem, just try and keep your cool. Marasmusine 15:48, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Believe me I am. That's nothing compared to how I wanted to word it. DarkSaber2k 15:49, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I think Bjrobinson is the person who would benefit more from reading WP:COOL. Especially point 2. Despite all this, I'm quite willing to let the matter end here, just as long as Bjrobinson can see how his actions and statements are out of line, especially considering that my 'malicious' actions were a direct result of a suggestion he made. DarkSaber2k 15:54, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

(reset tab) Oh my, I had forgotten about this. Erm well I don’t know what to say except at some point this must stop, because I very much doubt your name is ' Dark Saber 2K' , and in 40 years time when this crap is still sitting on a server somewhere it will be exceedingly embarrassing.
You have modified your behaviour a little, I see more notability tags rather than speedy deletes. The problem with speedy deletes and even AfDs is that many don’t check into WP to be able to add "hangon" or whatever, and there are enough trigger happy admins only happy to oblige without considering it properly.
I will apologise for any offence caused for ‘personal attacks’ (poor show from me). I don’t think the matter is dropped just yet, its just a matter of working out how properly tackle the situation in a proper manner. I also note that you still insist on censoring your talk page including removing a civility warning. Bjrobinson 13:50, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

You can't help doing it can you. I picked up the sly dig in the topic below, and making fun of my choice of username, why should I care, at 40, what username I had 27 years ago? Of course I've stopped adding speedy tags. All the articles that obviously met speedy criteria have now been deleted. Next are the articles where the editors have asserted notability, but failed to provide sources. As for 'censoring' my talk page, as usual your presenting one fact of the circumstances as a damning defamation of me. Both me and the other editor involved in the 'incivility' agree that there was no incivility involved, and that the Admin was wrong to assume there was. We had already reached a state of Ad Infinitum in our discussion and left it at that. And as I said the LAST time you tried to use quarter-facts and half-truths to make me look bad, anyone can check the history of a page, anyone with more than 10 minutes wiki experience knows how to check a history and I know full well removing comments on my talk page isn't going to do anything to stop people like you who are desperate to stir trouble and defame people, even going so far as to do so when they are apologising for the last time they defamed me. I don't accept your apology. Comments in the above post and conversation below show you to be insincere. DarkSaber2k 14:17, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I think my policy and guideline hating friend would benefit from reading Wikipedia:No personal attacks. DarkSaber2k 14:37, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I wasn't having a dig at your username, I was saying this will embarrassing for me. Yeah your right about the incivility thing, bad example. The comment below... well that was one of my points to you weeks ago... this is a WIKI. If you see something wrong try and fix it before going for the meat cleaver, if you can't then fine. Bjrobinson 14:40, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

And as I said to you at the same time, the burden of proof is on the person wishing for an article or information to be included, not the person who thinks it should be removed. If I don't believe the article passes inclusion criteria, then I will mark the article as such. It is then up to the person wishing for the article to be kept to find the proof of notability. Now that the articles of non-notability are gone, proper attention can be paid to those articles that assert notability, but don't provide sources to back it up. Since I'm not the person who insists it belongs on wikipedia, it doesn't fall to me to provide the sources to prove it belongs here. I place notability and sources tags, leave a notice in the talk page, and give them some time to produce the sources. Hard as this may seem to believe, your way isn't any better than my way. Your way would have Wikipedia crammed full of 'minority interest' articles that are unable to prove their notability in even the slightest way. My way calls them on their non-notability. Your way is burying your head in the sand, my way confronts the problem head-on. DarkSaber2k 14:48, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

That is a really backwards way of looking at it matey. This is a collaborative project, something people are menat to work together on. When i find a crappy page, I try and improve it before tagging it. Time and time and time again I see you take the most confrontational route possible. You enjoy this, you enjoy deleting, you enjoy tagging, you love to warn people, you actively seek confrontation, yet you never actually contribute anything. Again I will use the Gaia online example, a site with a billion forum posts, 300,000 daily visitors, 9 million dollar annual profit... deleting such a page would make WP a laughing stock, 10 minutes with google and decent sources are there to find. My point is thus; you are acting like a bull in a china shop, aggravating and being confrontational at every opportunity he can find. And I still have yet to find a substantial encyclopaedic edit. I have nothing more to say to you. :-) Bjrobinson 15:06, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, lets take the Gaia article as an example. I place a maintenace tag saying it needs sources, and what happens? Sources for it turn up within the day. Would they have appeared if a reminder hadn't been placed? Probably not. You complain about my contributions, but I've actually done as much to save browser game articles as you. Your argument is always that we should let the articles stay because no sources exist. I have been advising people who have actually been able to provide sources on which ones are better than others, and helping them put those into the article, just like you did when you finally got what I've been talking about with regards to sources. I'm also going to stop this conversation after this, but I ask that you stop the smug little edit summaries and the annoying little comments directed at me. You edit your way, I'll edit mine. If we end up at odds over an article we talk like grown-ups, not make personal comments and attempt to discredit the other. If I genuinely do something wrong, I fully expect an admin to call me on it. This is my final word. DarkSaber2k 18:29, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I invite everyone to participate with my suggestion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Massively multiplayer online games#Sources resources. Marasmusine 19:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Starships!

I invite you to take a look at the Starships talk page and look at some of the reasons not to include sources. While some are legitamately good reasons, others are way out there. The worse of wich is claiming MMORPG-review as a personal website. There reviews by such known reviewers as "Steph-the-geek", whom I believe he called a "blog" lol. It goes on and on like that. Please go to the talk page and look at what has happened. I respect you and trust your judgement. If you really think the article should be deleted, you tell me so, and I'll call for it to be deleted myself. Thats a promise. Matt Brennen 22:16, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi Matt, I'll re-examine the links. When a review site is ran by one person, it's difficult to know if they are a reliable source or not if I've not come across them before. I've been pretty harsh on the MMORPG articles recently but not blindly so; I was about to tag Empiriana for deletion, for example, but then found and added an IGN review. If Starships! is very widely played, I'm sure it won't be long before a big site like that comes across it. But like I say, I'll have another look at the links. Marasmusine 07:24, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Nice one Maras! This [1] is what should be done, and what i try and do myself too. So you see if there MAY be a notability issue, and see if you can sort it out, that is the way to do things! others shoudl take not... Or I suppose you could just tag them all for "speedy" or "notability" and leave it someone else to do... Bjrobinson 13:55, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of free MMORPGs

Thanks for putting this live - I was going to get around to it tonight, but you beat me to it. I did agree with what you said about dividing it by cost rather than environment, although now that you've added a "payment" column and a lot of them are just "free, but with payment for bonus features", maybe it wouldn't add that much after all. --McGeddon 19:56, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

It was when I saw that a)All the browser games were straight 'free to play' and b)Most of the others were 'free but with item shops'. Anyways thank for your help with that, I'm not very good at starting tables! Marasmusine 07:58, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Nightmare of Druaga

I rewrote the Gameplay section of The Nightmare of Druaga: Fushigino Dungeon. Would you mind dropping by and leaving your thoughts on the Talk page? I tried to cover everything this time, instead of cannibalizing the original text from The Tower of Druaga. Cheers, Lanky ○ Yell ○ 17:11, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Oki doki. Marasmusine 18:51, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] That anon spammer

Hi, you gave a last warning for an anon IP spamming, and he went and spammed since then. If you are an admin you should block the IP range, but it looks like maybe the URL should be added to the blocklist as the person doesn't appear willing to stop. And if you are not an admin you should probably report this to someone who can do something about it as you seem to have followed it more than I have. Thanks. DreamGuy 23:57, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I reported one of his IP addresses on WP:AIV yesterday; I don't know what action was taken. Marasmusine 07:11, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hyperiums

April? Are you sure about that...I was into hyperiums ages ago, about this time last year I'd say and I remember a page then.--Josquius 12:03, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Refs for PernMUSH

I tagged another website that mentions is and a pair of books which talk about PernMUSH. Is that notable enough? I think there are w few more out there, but IIRC they all repeat the same quote from the initial MIT book. *sigh* One of the problems of a good memory, all this junk stays in my head even though it's been a long time since I've played it. -- Ipstenu (talk|contribs) 13:15, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

That's good enough for me, thankyou muchly. Marasmusine 14:20, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Realms of Despair

It seems you have in it for MUD/MUSH/M* related pages. Notability allows for pages which are notable within their own community group. As MMORPGs are in themselves significantly notable (i.e. numerous mentions in mainstream media, an entire South Park episode based around Worlds of Warcraft), and MUDs are the historical predecessors to MMORPGs, and MUDs in general are significant enough for a Wikipedia article, notable MUDs (i.e. MUDs which have a significant place in the historical lineage of MUDs in general), are most definitely notable, and should not be deleted. Realms of Despair is such a MUD based on the following criteria:

Longevity - this MUD has been operating for over 13 years without going offline
Popularity - this MUD has maintained a player base of well over 15,000 active player files for more than ten years of its operation, and had regularly surpassed 500 simultaneous player connections during its peak popularity (40,000 active player files during this time)
Community contribution - Realms of Despair is the development ground for the SMAUG MUD code base. This code is used by literally hundreds of active MUDs.

As for references in other media (besides being listed on a large number of websites), Realms of Despair was featured in a newspaper article in the Toronto Star (Canada's highest circulation newspaper), as well as a MUD specific magazine (The MUD Companion). It should also be noted that Google returns over 17,000 hits for "Realms of Despair". --Thoric 15:24, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Then remove the prod tag. However I don't consider your three points to be assertion of notability (WP:N#Notability is not popularity, for example) The Toronto Star article would certainly be a fine reference. Why not put it in? Marasmusine 15:32, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Done. Popularity isn't notable in itself, but it contributes to the notability of a MUD within the MUD community. I would still point out that being the "home MUD" to the SMAUG code is significantly notable, as the release of the SMAUG code was listed on Raph Koster's Online World Timeline as a significant event. --Thoric 16:12, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Oki doki, I'm happy with that. Marasmusine 19:42, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your NPWatcher Application

Dear Marasmusine,

Thank you for applying for NPWatcher! You've been approved to use it. Before you run the program, please check the changelog on the application page to see if there is a newer release (or just add the main page (here) to your watchlist). Report any bugs or feature suggestion here. If you need help, feel free to contact me or join NPWatcher.

Martinp23 21:42, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Thankyou muchly. Marasmusine 07:29, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Think again

I did not do vandalism, i did it because their were only 10 reivews which is not reliable yet

That's 10 independent reviews, all from different reliable sources. You also left no edit history or comment on the talk page. Marasmusine 13:08, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User:Mr_roces

Marasmusine, I'm responding sort of to a comment you left om my user page.

The issue between Mr_roces and myself comes from a edit over the page List of characters in Bully. A long time ago, back before the characters list page was seperated from the main article, there was a discussion over whether to use "African-American" or "black" to describe people of dark skin tone. The decision was to use black. [2]

Mr roces changed all the occurences of the word "black" to "african-american" [sic]. When I reverted those edits, he has proceeded to attack my discussion page 3 times in 2 days, accusing me of being a racist. [3] [4] [5] At first I chose to delete his posts. I also tried leaving a request for him to stop on his page [6] which he ignored.

I don't know if you're a moderator on wikipedia or not, and if not I apologize for wasting your time. If you are, I'd like your advice on how to proceed. Mr_roces has not responded to my attempts to communicate, and he shows no signs of losing interest in gumming up my discussion page with his accusations of "chicken" and "racist", and I'm not sure what to do about it.

Thanks. McJeff 23:20, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi McJeff, Wikipedia:Resolving disputes will be invaluable for you. Normally the first thing to do is leave it alone for a while. I've just been checking the style guide to see what the preferred term is but haven't found it yet. I wonder what roces would want to change 'black' to if the game wasn't set in the United States? I'm looking at the list of characters now and it might read better with neither term ("A black bully" followed by "A blonde bully" is a bit ambiguous); try removing the racial terms completely and see how it reads. In any event, the most important rule is to be civil at all times. Marasmusine 06:55, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

McJeff, your so funny. You didn't tell me that there was a debate. You just removed my post without concern. Thank you Maramusine. User: Mr roces

Mr Roces, I've checked McJeff's edit history and I can't see any such post removal. I suggest you avoid contact with each other for a while. Marasmusine 06:59, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Can you please look again. User: Mr roces

Okay. The only things he has removed are one of your personal attacks on his user talk page:[7] and one of your personal attacks on another user talk page:[8] I don't blame him really. Marasmusine 17:34, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I believe he means the reverts I did on his edits to the List of characters in Bully page. If he does mean that, though, he's lying. [9]

The first time he made the change, I gave the following reason for my revert as the edit summary. "first, a revert. It was decided long ago to use the term "black" rather than "african american", as there's no evidence that anyone came from africa.)"

He responded by re-reverting, with the explanation "African American is a race not from the place where you come from. African american is frienlier than black."

I was a bit snippy with my next explanation of the revert, which was "Sorry, no. You don't override an earlier decision because "african-american" is "friendlier"."

It was after that, that he decided to start accusing me of being a racist. McJeff 18:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Mcjeff, would you shut up? And, I mean the reverts on the discussoin page of Mcjeff. User: Mr roces

Every one of his reverts was to remove your personal attacks. I really suggest you back off, and re-read WP:CIVIL. Marasmusine 09:41, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not scared of you Maramusine. Remember that. This session is finish. Now, everyone go back doing work in wikipedia. Do not reply to this. User: Mr roces

"Do not reply to this"? Er, okay? Marasmusine 13:33, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Do you understand " dont "?

No, but I understand "don't". Marasmusine 14:06, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] deletion of EUO

dear sir,

Don't forget to delete the many references to EUO from your internet encyclopaedia (did I mention that there were many):

Special:Whatlinkshere/EUO

as now you have a whole load of broken links to the page you deleted, as crappy as it was. Just helping you with your noble cause.

best regards, Lord Eggleton McEye, the guy that wrote EUO

I wouldn't call 4 article-space links 'many'; plus they were all in 'list' entries - cleaned up in about as many seconds. Marasmusine 07:34, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia in Tibia

Hello, I saw you removed the "trivia" section in Tibia per WP:TRIVIA. However, I placed it back (albeit under a different section heading), as this section wasn't really trivial but rather a list of references to popular culture in the game itself. ""Guidelines are not set in stone and should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception."" Especially WP:TRIVIA is a disputed guideline, and should certainly be followed with caution. Please discuss it on the talk page first instead of removing a very comprehensive section next time. Thank you. Sala Skan 17:10, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

It is pretty trivial. I mean; "There's a place called "Hard Rock Tavern", a reference to Hard Rock Cafe."? Is it? If it is, so what? Well, I'll leave it be anyway. Marasmusine 17:14, 31 May 2007 (UTC)