Template talk:Mario characters

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Template:Mario characters page.

Not that the template isn't great, but I feel like it's too big and somewhat unorganized. For example, having a minor -- though admittedly reoccurring -- characrer like Bob-Omb come first seems silly. Also, I think the template should distinguish between characters from the games and those from the ancilliary comics and TV shows. What does anybody else think? Kidicarus222 00:11, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I had an idea what might the template look better, so I switched it up. It's now left-justified and -- in my opinion -- ordered a bit more sensibly. Open to suggestions/criticisms. I got rid of a few items, also, like Unagi, since I didn't think he was a major enough character to include in the template. Kidicarus222 02:21, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Great job, but I've reorganized it as well to reduce overall size. Also, I believe Unagi and the others should be readded, as (in my opinion) if its notable enough to merit an article, it should be notable enough to be included in this template.--☆TBC☆ 03:09, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
I like it.Kidicarus222 19:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Wha

What happened to this article? Why is it so small now, this is crap, I mean really, Mario series has lots of characters, why shouldn't it be long, I'm reverting it, if you think it should stay like this now, give a good reason.

I agree that there are a lot of characters, but I think the template was too big and awkward. I support the change, though I feel folks like Birdo and Waluigi and others that have been playable in lots of games deserve a place. As for the Wario and Donkey Kong characters, they're a little ancillary to be on the template. And if you include one group, you end up having to include the other, plus minor characters, plus the characters that only appear in TV show versions and comics and such. Way too much. Simplifying is better. Kidicarus222 22:43, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I didn't find it awkward at all, but if you find Donkey Kong, Wario and Yoshi characters overkill, perhaps we could just remove them from the template, but otherwise keep it the same, I mean, Mario is a flagship with lots of characters, I still say it should be big, the reason it's called the Mario series character is because it should cover all the characters in the Mario series.Buso 00:28, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Seconded!!! why do people ALWAYS want to make templates too organised that there not at all helpful what so ever!

Rob.John.Mackay (talk) 22:09, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] My Twopence

I feel that characters should be separated between: Main, Major, Minor, and Generic.

Main characters should include the ones on the list right now. I feel that Major characters include Birdo, Bowser Jr., Diddy Kong (even though he barely qualifies), Toadette, Toadsworth, Waluigi, Daisy, Petey Piranha, King Boo, Dr. Mario, Baby Luigi, Baby Mario, and E. Gadd.

Minor should include the one-or-two-time only characters like Cackletta, Bowletta, Fawful, Popple, Tatanga, Captain Syrup, Mouser, Wart, Smithy, Kamek, Kammy Koopa, Baby Bowser, Giga Bowser (debateable), and other characters like that.

Generic could include Goomba, Koopa Troopa, Shy Guy, Boo Diddley, Hammer Bros, Bob-omb, and Lakitu.

Not to make it as big and confusing as it was before, but we need more than just eight characters on there. And, I feel that Yoshi, Wario, and DK characters belong in Yoshi, Wario and DK templates.

I agree, I think it should go Main Characters, Supporting Characters, Minor Characters, and Generic Characters. Maybe even a Villains for all the boss monsters (Mouser, Tryclyde, Kammy Koopa, et al). But having only the eight main characters in the template is ridiculous. Nyssie 23:22, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I've added back a few of the articles. If anyone objects, feel free to comment.--TBCTaLk?!? 21:00, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Can we please stop adding minor characters, like the characters who only appear in sports games to fill out the cast and other minor, supporting characters? It makes this template massive, ugly, and much less useful. Do we REALLY need a link to Oogtar and FLUDD in each of three dozen articles? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:04, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Under Wikipedia guidelines, minor characters shouldn't ever have their own articles (see Wikipedia:Notability (fiction)). Also, the revised template that you reverted was actually much shorter compared to other navigation templates, such as Template:The Simpsons, Template:Family Guy, or Template:Final Fantasy series.--TBCTaLk?!? 01:51, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Those also are huge and ugly. I'd rather use this as a precedent to change those than the other way around. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:05, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
If you do find it "ugly", a show/hide bar can always be added. --TBCTaLk?!? 00:28, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Alright, I've added a show/hide bar that allows to you to reveal or remove any of the minor characters from the template. Any opinions?--TBCTaLk?!? 00:46, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
It doesn't work in some layouts/browsers/resolutions, and I still don't why we're linking to FLUDD and Oogtar in every single Mario character article. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:15, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
If it doesn't deserve to be linked, than does it merit an article at all? Note that, according to guidelines, articles should only be of major character, not of minor characters. Also, though some people may consider it "ugly", the larger template does make navigating through the masses of Mario character related articles easier, thus the benefits outweigh the negative aspects.--TBCTaLk?!? 04:51, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
And why did you revert my recent revision? Though it may not work in all computers, it will help people to navigate in computers that is does works in.--TBCTaLk?!? 04:52, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
If someone wants to sift through all the stubs, we do have Category:Mario characters. I reverted it because it screws up Whatlinkshere, looks awful, and links to a bunch of articles that don't need to be linked to. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:56, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
First of all, first-time readers of Wikipedia might not know what a Wikipedian category is or what it does. Also, as I've said before, if the the articles "don't need to be linked to" then do they merit an article at all? Please remember that according to the WP:FICT guideline only main characters should have articles, not minor ones.--TBCTaLk?!? 20:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
First-time readers of Wikipedia are just as likely to be put off by a mangled template
That aside, yeah, probably a bunch of these minor characters need to be cleaned up and merged. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 20:48, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
If you dislike large navigational templates, I suggest you discuss it at Wikipedia:Navigational templates instead of here (see WP:POINT).--TBCTaLk?!? 01:27, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

There was a great idea of having it seperated into sections, please just do that, i dont give a crap abour "wikipedia regulations" it makes it alot easier to browse if there are all together, who gives a crap about ugly, its wikipedia, its supose to be the source of almost all knolledge, just have them in the template. seperated so it doesnt look disorganised!!!!!! your sinserly Rob.John.Mackay (talk) 22:09, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Okay, So We Don't Need Every Single Character, but We Can't Leave it at Just 8

Okay, so what I think is, we have:

Mario, Luigi, DK, Diddy, Dixie, Peach, Daisy, Toad, Toadette, Toadsworth, Yoshi, Birdo, Baby Mario, Baby Luigi, Wario, Waluigi, Petey Piranha, King Boo, Bowser, E. Gadd, Bowser Jr., and Dr. Mario. Everyone else hardly matters, but we need at least these in. There's a whole slew of Mario people in the Marioverse now. We need more than 8 here. Waluigi Freak 99 22:40, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Half of those characters have appeared in only one game, don't have their own articles, or never appeared in a Mario game ever. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:44, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
I've checked. Everyone of these has been in more than one game. Diddy was in Mario Kart: DD and Mario Golf: TT. Dixie was in Mario Baseball and will be in Mario Hoops 3 on 3. Petey Piranha and King Boo were in several sports titles. E. Gadd was in Luigi's Mansion, the Mario & Luigi games, Mario Party 6, and more. Even Dr. Mario was in several.
We don't need to put every single character who has made a cameo appearance in a large-cast crossover game in this template. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:55, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Note that it's technically not a cameo appearance since all of these characters are from the same series.--TBCTaLk?!? 01:14, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
True. Okay. But E. Gadd, Toadsworth, Waluigi, Daisy, Birdo, Toadette, Bowser Jr., Petey, King Boo certainly belong, right?
No. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 23:20, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Why not? These characters have made appearances in multiple Mario games. Also, if they aren't notable enough for the template, than how can they be notable enough to have their own article?--TBCTaLk?!? 01:18, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Because none of them are so major as to need to be linked from every single Mario character article. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:26, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

This template does not and should not link to every single character that has appeared as a filler character in a party, sports, or racing game. The previous version of this template was horrendous, linking to everything in Category:Mario characters and others beyond. These proposals are nothing but an effort to make this template into a monstrous, useless lump of links to minor characters like E.Gadd (a supporting character in one game, then relegated to background roles), Diddy and Dixie (who have never appeared in anything but a minor unlockable character role in games with unusually large casts), Waluigi (created specifically to be a filler for such games), and goofy additions like Petey Piranha (wasn't he created specifically for Mario Sunshine?).

No, we're not doing that. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:33, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Just because you don't like a character doesn't mean (s)he doesn't belong in the template. Waluigi Freak 99 20:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

No to Dr. Mario and the Baby Mario/Luigi characters. The baby characters are already intergrated in the Mario and Luigi articles, respectively, and Dr. Mario isa bout the video game. He should not be given his own article, either - he ought to be mentioned in the main Mario article. Hbdragon88 07:28, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template Changed

Okay, people are saying that we shouldn't add characters that were only in Mario sports and party games. Those games make up, like, 80% of the Mario games! We don't need that huge ol' list from before, but we need more than 8 characters. I made the list now holding the main 16 characters in Mario sports games, and they're well on their way to becoming major characters in major Mario platformers.

Characters I added: Daisy, Bowser Jr., Toadette, Waluigi, Birdo, Diddy Kong, King Boo, and Petey Piranha.

Waluigi Freak 99 13:36, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

And, once again, I'm removing every character who hasn't been the protangonist or antagonist of at least two games, for the reasons listed above. Just because you like an obscure character does not mean it needs to be linked from each of a dozen articles. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:59, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
As I've said before, according to WP:FICT, "obscure" characters shouldn't even have their own articles! Also, does taking up 2-3 more lines of space really make the template that ugly? Either way, you seem to be against large templates in general, which is an issue that should be discussed at Wikipedia:Navigational templates instead of here, or else you'll be violating WP:POINT.--TBCTaLk?!? 02:34, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
I've just noticed that, of the 5 users that have commented on this discussion, 4 (including me) agree that characters such as Waluigi and Birdo should be added back to the template. This means we already have a consensus on adding back a few characters. However, to be fair, I've started a straw poll:--TBCTaLk?!? 02:45, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Polls are evil, and I don't participate in random straw polls as a matter of course. We need not to be expanding every single template with every single character in a category. By limiting it to characters who have been the protagonist or antagonist of two games, we don't get everyone's favorite minor villain (people have suggested Mouser and Wart and E. Gadd and all sorts of silly stuff) keeps this template from ballooning as every passing user adds just one more character.

Also, per WP:FICT, most of these character articles need to be merged. No sense encouraging their continued existence. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 02:53, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Though it is true that Wikipedia is not an experiment in democracy, straw polls are a great way of finding consensus in difficult cases, such as this one which has gone on for around a month. Also, the template that I've been trying to advocate doesn't include Mouser, Wart, or any other antagonist as they are already covered in Template:Mario enemies. As I've noted above, does 2 to 3 more lines really make that much of a difference?--TBCTaLk?!? 06:51, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
It won't be two or three lines. If the only standard is "some passing user thinks the character is important," then we end up with more and more and more and more. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 17:13, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Stop assuming that people only want characters in the template because they like them. I like Geno but I'm not going to argue he should be in the template (but I would argue that characters like Bowser Jr, Waluigi, & Daisy should be). SNS 17:28, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Can you make a reasonable standard that includes Bowser Jr. that doesn't include silliness like Para-goombas and shyguys and Dirk Drainhead? Or are you just making a gut call on what you think is important (which is essentially indistinguishable from "I'm adding foo because I like him!")?- A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 18:26, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

The way I see it is if a character appears in many Mario games & isn't just a species of enemy, then they should be included in this template. SNS 22:17, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

How many is "many"? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:08, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Straw Poll

[edit] Keep the same

[edit] Revert back to this version

  • Support as per my previous arguments.--TBCTaLk?!? 02:45, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I back reversing, all the way Rob.John.Mackay (talk) 22:13, 26 December 2007 (UTC) When i was a new wikipedia user, i loved the "full" templates, as long as they were organised, they could keep me browsing and procastinating for hours! and thats the point of wikipedia,

[edit] Comment

From the top of the page . . .

This article is part of WikiProject Computer and video games, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to video games on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

Last I checked, 8 people isn't comprehensive and detailed.

My point is, you're saying characters like Daisy and Waluigi don't belong because they only appear in spin-offs. Spin-offs make up, like, at least HALF of the Marioverse. They belong. ;)

Waluigi Freak 99 23:01, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and by the way, I vote neither on the straw poll. Mallow, Kid, and FLUDD hardly belong.

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Daisy, DK, Diddy, Dixie, Toad, Toadette, Toadsworth, Yoshi, Birdo, Wario, Waluigi, Petey Piranha, King Boo, E. Gadd, Bowser, Bowser Jr., Goomba, Bob-omb, Lakitu, Koopa, Boo, Dry Bones, Shy Guy, Pianta, Hammer Bros., Magikoopa, Noki, Wiggler, and Monty Mole belong. Waluigi Freak 99 23:20, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Monty Mole (a minor enemy that appears in three games)? Pianta (which appears in one game and the background of a couple others)? A dozen characters with no dialogue whatsoever? This is just going back to the huge, unwieldy, useless template we had before, the one WP:CVG unanimously agreed was way too big. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:08, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I added Monty Mole because he was playable in Mario Superstar Baseball. If you want him gone, then fine. But Waluigi, Daisy, Birdo, etc. have had dialogue. You're just using the inclusion of Monty Mole as an excuse to get rid of the other ones. Waluigi Freak 99 14:35, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

No, I'm using the fact that none of them are appropriate for this template as they're minor supporting characters. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:09, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Here's what I think. To become a playable character in the Mario universe, the character must have some connection to Mario. So for a start, Diddy Kong and Dixie Kong should be taken off since they are part of the DK Worlds and not the Mario. No-one seems to like them and Diddy should be replaced by DK Jr. Basically the more the better. The list of characters (so far) that should be made playable are as follows: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Daisy, Yoshi, Birdo, Baby Mario, Baby Luigi, Toadsworth, Toad, Toadette, DK, DK Jr., Bowser, Bowser Jr., Wario, Waluigi, Koopa Troopa, Paratroopa, Goomba, Paragoomba, Shy Guy, Fly Guy, Magikoopa, Dry Bones, Monty Mole, Hammer Bro., Fire Bro., Boomerang Bro., Boo, King Boo and the one and only Petey Piranha. For future games, Big Bob-omb and Goomboss should be made as playables. I have also not included the piantas and nokis, simply because there are too many varitions and different colours of them. So these too should be taken off. Nintendo slowly but effectively continue to add more and more playable characters into the Mario games which keeps on getting better and better. (Petey Piranha freak).

[edit] Split into four templates

In order to keep each template small, Mario characters are now divided among three templates, Template:Cartoon and comic Mario characters, Template:Mario enemies, Template:Donkey Kong characters and this template. Any comments?--TBCTaLk?!? 02:22, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't like it. I really don't. Why are the other templates mentioned in this one? I think that that should not be. Waluigi Freak 99 14:35, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Why not? Please give an explanation before reverting next time.--TBCTaLk?!? 18:50, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Why not link to lists? Linking to templates from articles is bad style, but linking to a hypothetical List of Mario characters or whatnot would be fine. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 20:10, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

No list on cartoon/comic or donkey kong characters currently exist, though I'm willing to create them.--TBCTaLk?!? 20:46, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Go right ahead. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 20:52, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Donkey Kong

Why are we linking to a list of Donkey Kong characters? For the most part, they are completely separate from the Mario universe. Only DK himself is directly related to Mario (and in only one game), and if we used that reasoning then we'd have to link to Yoshi and WArio characters as well. The link isn't very strong, and thus I think it ought to be removed. Hbdragon88 05:11, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Characters used in the template

I know this has been discussed before, but there really should be more characters. Have you ever seen the template for The Simpsons characters? That one has approximately links to approximately 70 characters articles, including a character named Birch Barlow (only appearing in the episode Sideshow Bob Roberts), and no one has really brought that up. If you won't add more charcters like Daisy, Toadette, Waluigi, etc, then at least add these two:

  • Bowser Jr.-He had a major antagonist role in both Super Mario Sunshine and New Super Mario Bros.
  • Birdo-She was a boss almost in every stage in Super Mario Bros. 2 and she's battled against as a boss in Super Mario RPG and Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. 16:49, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Waluigi, Daisy, etc

It makes no sense that characters like Waluigi and Daisy aren't on this, sure there fillers, but there like the main ones, ever since Waluigi's Debut/Daisy's reappearance, they've been playable in every Mario spin-off/party game to date (heck, they were part of the 8 character cast in Mario Strikers) and considering they have the Mario series character template on there wikipedias (well, Waluigi does, Daisy doesn't have any template) it just doesn't make sense to me.

To be fair, the template was originally used for the "Main 8" (Mario, Luigi, Peach, Toad, Bowser, Yoshi, Wario, DK). While I'd like Waluigi and Daisy to be on the template, I can forsee a big clash involving the whole "But they're FILLERS" argument. I see you've already put Daisy and Waluigi on the template; I'll leave this for now. We'll see how it goes. Also, please in the future sign your comments with ~~~~. Thanks. Hardcore gamer 48 04:59, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Hm... nobody seems to have removed either Princess Daisy or Waluigi, which is a good sign. Perhaps, if people are willing, more articles could be added (only the main 8's partners; e.g. Birdo for Yoshi, Toadette for Toad (Nintendo), etc.). I won't add them to the template yet, but I will leave it up in the air. If I don't hear a response in about five days, I'll add them for a "trial run". ^_^ Hardcore gamer 48 13:28, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] We have Daisy but not Waluigi.

Now I'm not saying I like either of those characters (because I really don't), though I don't see the knowledge in adding Daisy but not Waluigi. If I had an opinion it would be to only add the big eight. --Bentendo24 18:44, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Order of the characters.

The order of the characters seems out of place. I think we should order them from when they first appeared, so it would be like this -

Mario-Donkey Kong-Luigi-Peach-Bowser-Toad-Yoshi-Wario

Anyone else agree? --Bentendo24 18:47, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be more like:
Donkey Kong - Mario - Luigi - Bowser - Princess Peach - Yoshi - Wario
Donkey Kong appeared in the arcade game before Mario, in the cutscene; Bowser is also encountered before Princess Toadstool. Toad is now redirect. -- Lord Crayak

[edit] Toad?

Why is Toad not in the article? He's been a prominent Mario character since the beginning... Nyssie 22:55, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

It's not the fact that he is not prominent. It's the fact that he doesn't warrent his own article for various reasons at this time. Mr. C.C. 08:32, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Solving The Problem

There have been many debates and well, I even put Waluigi and Daisy back on the template. But they have been since removed. After thinking about and seeing their respective sections in list of Mario series characters, I thought that it wasn't good to have them on there. I came to the conclusion that if they don't have their own article, than they shouldn't be added to the template. Mr. C.C. 08:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I also think this is the best option. If they have a nice article, they deserve a link. Alexanderpas (talk) 13:10, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Waluigi's addition

Not another beg-and-plead. I've got backup. As one person said, they have to be the main protagonist or antagonist of at least two games. Waluigi was the main antagonist of both Mario Party 3 and Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix. Therefore, there is no reason Waluigi should not be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.154.92 (talk) 23:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

I think any character that deserves their own (non-stub) article deserves to be in the list!
This means Waluigi isn't added, but Birdo is Alexanderpas (talk) 13:13, 2 April 2008 (UTC)