Talk:Mary Ormond
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[edit] Contradiction
It seems that determining fact from fiction with topics relating to Blackbeard is difficult, and that includes Mary Ormond. A genealogy page[1] contradicts part of this article as it currently stands, specifically that Mary Ormond married Blackbeard before the Ormond family lived in Bath. Thus it is probable that Mary Ormond was not born an Ormond, but later married into the Ormonds after Blackbeard's death, contradicting the article's assertion that William Ormand was her father. --Dan East 15:26, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
- It would be nice, if you were an Ormand or Ormond, which i,am. These are facts, you are stating your opinions which are not facts. When you correct things check your own sources. The Ormand,s or Ormond,s were in Bath first. Check the Royal records in Kew if you do not know this. Randall O
- Let me begin by saying that originally you did not provide any references for your facts. At least I went to the trouble to attempt to find some to validate your contribution. Secondly, re-read what I wrote. Nowhere did I state any facts whatsoever. I used words like "probable", and "contradicting". I did not state that your information was incorrect, I just said that a genealogy page was contradictory to it. Finally, I'm not sure what you meant by my correcting things. You created an article with the name "Mary Ormond or Ormand". That is not an appropriate name for an bibliographical article, so I renamed it. The name of the article should be the most commonly used name. Other than that I simply attempted to clean up the article to adhere to Wikipedia guidelines, and to utilize proper grammar. The only substantive change I made was to remove the Ormand spelling, because in my searching the only references to this Mary I could find was Ormond. I will be making additional edits immediately after this to further clean up your recent additions - for example removing the recursive link (Mary Ormond links to itself), and creating a header for your reference. Your contribution is certainly appreciated, however you should not get defensive or upset when changes are made, or the accuracy of the information is questioned (especially when references are not cited). That is how Wikipedia works. --Dan East 03:33, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
- The site you refer to is under the Ormand and Ormand surname list. This in itself,has both spellings. The Governor himself presided over the marriage. Also both spellings are listed in the records. These are facts. Why would she give her maiden name as Mary Ormond or Ormand, if it was not her name? I did not say anything about the clean up. I have read more about this subject then the average person, could or would. You only give one source of information on this subject. The link in question was to the Mary Ormond or Ormand theater in Bath. It was named after her. (unsigned entry by Randall O)
- The site I referenced contains links on the left side of the page to various Ormond, Ormand and Orman individuals. However the actual body of the document, which is the wide column to the right, does not contain the word Ormand at all. The reason I removed your link to http://www.ormondamphitheatre.com is because it is not applicable to this article. I have looked at every page on that small site, and it does not contain any information about Mary Ormond whatsoever. It does not even contain the word "Mary" (nor does it contain the word Ormand, so I'm not sure why you refer to it as "the Mary Ormond or Ormand theater"). When I mistakingly referred to it earlier as your "reference" I had not yet visited that site. --Dan East 07:29, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
- The site you refer to is under the Ormand and Ormand surname list. This in itself,has both spellings. The Governor himself presided over the marriage. Also both spellings are listed in the records. These are facts. Why would she give her maiden name as Mary Ormond or Ormand, if it was not her name? I did not say anything about the clean up. I have read more about this subject then the average person, could or would. You only give one source of information on this subject. The link in question was to the Mary Ormond or Ormand theater in Bath. It was named after her. (unsigned entry by Randall O)
- Let me begin by saying that originally you did not provide any references for your facts. At least I went to the trouble to attempt to find some to validate your contribution. Secondly, re-read what I wrote. Nowhere did I state any facts whatsoever. I used words like "probable", and "contradicting". I did not state that your information was incorrect, I just said that a genealogy page was contradictory to it. Finally, I'm not sure what you meant by my correcting things. You created an article with the name "Mary Ormond or Ormand". That is not an appropriate name for an bibliographical article, so I renamed it. The name of the article should be the most commonly used name. Other than that I simply attempted to clean up the article to adhere to Wikipedia guidelines, and to utilize proper grammar. The only substantive change I made was to remove the Ormand spelling, because in my searching the only references to this Mary I could find was Ormond. I will be making additional edits immediately after this to further clean up your recent additions - for example removing the recursive link (Mary Ormond links to itself), and creating a header for your reference. Your contribution is certainly appreciated, however you should not get defensive or upset when changes are made, or the accuracy of the information is questioned (especially when references are not cited). That is how Wikipedia works. --Dan East 03:33, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
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- Quit being a vandal, you are doing this to everything i write. The Mary Ormond theater as they spell is the name. They even had a write up about it in a local paper. I quess i will have to supply you with the link to prove it. I now have several links which prove this is the Mary Ormond theater. I await your reply. http://www.unc.edu/news/archives/may05/odd052705.html Also this link proves my point, bottom of this link page. http://www.gotriad.com/article/articleview/15681/1/18 (unsigned entry by Randall O)
- Correcting poorly worded, incorrectly formatted, and grammatically flawed articles is not vandalism. Nor is removing external links that do not contain information relative to an article. The primary issue regarding the external link is that the website does not contain information that can be used as a reference to the article, or provides additional reading regarding the topic. People read the article Mary Ormond to find information about that person. When they click on an external link they expect to find additional reading about the topic. Neither of the links you just provided substantiate your claim that the theater is named "the Mary Ormond or Ormand theater", and that is a quote from your earlier message. Both of those links contain the same blurb that the theater performed a play called Blackbeard: Knight of the Black Flag which is about Mary Ormond. That still does not assert that the theater is specifically named in honor of Mary Ormond. Now that is a moot point - don't bother providing more references in an attempt to prove that. The link to the theater is inappropriate regardless because it does not contain worthwhile content. --Dan East 13:10, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
- I will give you complete proof that this is the Mary Ormond theater. With this i will rest my case. As for grammar what about the word blurb. As for Bath N.C. it only has 275 people in the whole town, who do you think the theater is named for? You even went so for as to, correct the site on Charles Eden, in the belief i wrote it. (unsigned entry by Randall O)
- Blurb is a word. Take a look in a dictionary[2][3]. I correct any page I come across that contains errors. Take a look at my contributions and you'll see what I mean - I'm certainly not singling you out, but I do look at groups of articles, either by contributor, category, etc. It seems you have a tendency to take things personally. As I said up front, questioning the accuracy of articles, especially those that contain no references, is standard practice within Wikipedia. That does not constitute an attack against you personally, and I'm certainly sorry if you took it as such. --Dan East 02:53, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
- I will give you complete proof that this is the Mary Ormond theater. With this i will rest my case. As for grammar what about the word blurb. As for Bath N.C. it only has 275 people in the whole town, who do you think the theater is named for? You even went so for as to, correct the site on Charles Eden, in the belief i wrote it. (unsigned entry by Randall O)
- Correcting poorly worded, incorrectly formatted, and grammatically flawed articles is not vandalism. Nor is removing external links that do not contain information relative to an article. The primary issue regarding the external link is that the website does not contain information that can be used as a reference to the article, or provides additional reading regarding the topic. People read the article Mary Ormond to find information about that person. When they click on an external link they expect to find additional reading about the topic. Neither of the links you just provided substantiate your claim that the theater is named "the Mary Ormond or Ormand theater", and that is a quote from your earlier message. Both of those links contain the same blurb that the theater performed a play called Blackbeard: Knight of the Black Flag which is about Mary Ormond. That still does not assert that the theater is specifically named in honor of Mary Ormond. Now that is a moot point - don't bother providing more references in an attempt to prove that. The link to the theater is inappropriate regardless because it does not contain worthwhile content. --Dan East 13:10, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
- Quit being a vandal, you are doing this to everything i write. The Mary Ormond theater as they spell is the name. They even had a write up about it in a local paper. I quess i will have to supply you with the link to prove it. I now have several links which prove this is the Mary Ormond theater. I await your reply. http://www.unc.edu/news/archives/may05/odd052705.html Also this link proves my point, bottom of this link page. http://www.gotriad.com/article/articleview/15681/1/18 (unsigned entry by Randall O)
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I do not object to corrections, but i do object when articles, i know about and have read about are changed and deleted. Any article which has a link to Mary Ormond, would be about her. Also any play about Mary Ormond is about the subject. There are several actors under the Blackbeard story. They have not been deleted. Nor would i want them deleted. I also have many contributions myself. I have been a member almost as long as you. I try to write articles which are correct and are fact checked. As for some of my articles, i clean them up at a later time. Sure you will find small mistakes on anything written. Tomorrow we will have the answer to whom the Ormond theater is named after. (unsigned entry by Randall O)
- What was deleted? I changed the name of this article, but nothing has been deleted. As far as articles being changed, you should be used to that by now, if you have been a wikipedian as long as you say. --Dan East 13:13, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Genealogy
The article on Mary Ormond is a good one, if only for the purpose of intriguing a scholar enough to do an exhaustive research on the topic. Just a couple of points:
The genealogy link in Dan East's first paragraph doesn't seem to go anywhere. Is there another way to search it?
I read somewhere that Mary Ormond was blind - anybody ever seen that?
The best source for family records from that era are family Bibles or old church documents - but they are pretty rare from those days. Do we have anything like that for Ormond?
A lot of "sources" about pirates eventually trace back to a "Captain Johnson"s book. Some scholars believe this person was actually Daniel Defoe and that a lot of his info was either heresay or made up (I don't know or have an opinion either way). But trying to find hard evidence or reliable info ("proof") on these characters is surely difficult.
Engr105th 10:19, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Her Fate
The Wiki article states she may have been "offered as a gift to" Blackbeard's crew...but I cannot find any reasonably researched reference to say so...I don't really object to that remark being there (after all, this is very minor historical character), but would like to know where the info comes from...????.... Engr105th 05:36, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
