Talk:Martinsville, Indiana

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[edit] Early discussions

The following sentence is, at best not NPOV, and at worst grossly inaccurate. The town also had a serious racial incident involving the football or basketball team, with fans accosting the bus from a visiting school. This incident resulted in a suspension from their league for a period of time. This talk area is not a good area to argue the merits of either incident, nor to get into an argument about how racial Martinsville is and/or was. I would suggest moving this to the bottom of the page, with further research and citations.

The town has, through popular media and hearsay, (inaccurately) received a reputation within central Indiana as a racist community. This is largely due to a violent and tragic murder in the mid-20th century involving a Klansman from Indianapolis and an African-American teenager who crossed paths in the town.

--Boomcoach 16:21, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I removed the following:

Later discovered evidence showed that the act was perpetuated by someone passing through the town, and that the racist tag was largely manufactured. Several instances since that time in the city of Martinsville, and the increasing minority population in the community proves that Martinsville has shucked the racist label and is in fact a welcoming community of all races and cultures.

It is POV and not phrased in a manner appropriate to the Encyclopedia. I would certainly welcome cited information about what really happened in the 60's. The article already mentions that the reputation was inaccurate, but the text removed comes down to blatant propoganda.

Are there any IndyStar references available from the court case a few years back, that can be cited for more information? Boomcoach 14:30, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Have revised to add link to Indy Star Article. I still believe your entry is as biased and POV laden as any other, and have revised it again. If we cannot agree upon it, perhaps we should remove the reference altogether? As a local resident, I see your statement as biased and propoganda as well, so we need to either reword this, or drop the reference altogether as this time. Your choice, as I'll push this as far as I have to in order to clarify your words, which appear biased and incomplete. <Doctrpt 05:38, 21 December 2006 (UTC)>

Your article was just what was needed. I attached the link directly to its mention in your first sentence, thus removing the need for the second sentence. The main terminology I was objecting to was Martinsville has shucked the racist label and is in fact a welcoming community of all races and cultures which was not worded in a way that seemed appropriate to this venue. I think that giving the link was excellent. I am a former resident and I know that story has been spread far and wide, so I think it is better to addressm and clarify it, than to simply ignore it.
Thanks also for the Mineral water information, as I don't think the section on racism needs to dominate the article.Boomcoach 15:49, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I still don't think this is NPOV. It takes the position that the racist reputation is undeserved, without any real evidence. A negative argument like "no documented ties to the KKK" just isn't sufficient. There's also no evidence cited that the reputation emerged primarily from the 1968 murder. Beyond the murder, in recent times, there's the basketball bus incident and the assistant police chief's letter. A balanced treatment of this would say something like: "Martinsville has a reputation for racism. [68 murder] [basketball incident] [letter]. Local residents deny this claim. [murder was by an outsider] [no documented kkk ties]." That way, the rebuttals can remain without the article seeming to endorse them. --Rmlucas 16:25, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Added discussion regarding reputation as City of Mineral Water to description of town. Can be found any number of places on net, including http://www.scican.net, and following links to local history. <Doctrpt 05:44, 21 December 2006 (UTC)>


[edit] Nail Letter addition

What is the point of this addition? I find the letter reprehensible, but an encyclopedic entry does not need to discuss the various idiotic comments by various members of the town, even if they have some sort of official position.

I have deleted the following:

==The 2001 Dennis Nail Letter==
In response to the September 11, 2001 attacks and press coverage of the military presence in Afghanistan following the attacks, assistant police chief Dennis Nail wrote to the Martinsville Reporter-Times in October of that year:
If some of the major networks can only show sympathy for the enemy, I might suggest they move their studios and equipment to the end of oblivion with the rest of the cave-dwelling rats that opened death’s door to our countrymen on Sept. 11.
Offended? I, too, am offended... It offends me when I have to give up prayer in school. Once again because it might upset Hadji Hindu or Buddy Buddha. I don’t believe the founding fathers were either of these. They were Christian and believed in the one true God of the universe… .
Talk about majority. When I look around and I see no Mosque, or fat bald guys with bowls in their laps. I see churches. I’m offended when I turn on a television show and without fail a queer is in the plot just like it’s a natural thing.
America put God in the closet and let the queers out. When the planes struck the twin towers I never heard anyone utter, ‘Oh Ellen.’ I heard a lot of ‘Oh my God.’ Now we want to pull God off the shelf, rub His head and expect a miracle.
Offended? Well, get over it, because it’s time the dog started wagging the tail. Let’s not be led around by a minority of weirdoes and feel-gooders. I, for one, am tired of it.
According to an article by the Souther Poverty Law Center [1], Nail's letter was signed as a private citizen, but his position in the local police force was common knowledge. Some national news attention was paid the letter's publishing, and 2 weeks later the City Council held a public meeting attended by 80 people. It is said 21 people voiced their support of Nail (there was 1 speaker who criticized the assistant police chief and the City Council's handling of the situation) and that when Nail addressed the council, he received a standing ovation (it isn't noted what Nail said.)
An article on the incident including a quote from Nail's apology (Source: People For the American Way)[2]

If a reasonable discussion determines that this is appropriate for this forum, it is available to be re-added. Boomcoach 18:37, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

If an article is considered erroneous or misrepresentative of the facts, than I agree it should be removed. This incident was reported by reputable sources and is part of the recent history of Martinsville. Deleting it outright is the same as attempting to cover it up. I'm sure it was your civic pride more than your editorial judgment at work when you deleted my post.

Not at all. I am no longer a resident. I am not a particularly big fan of the city, but I think that this is supposed to be an encyclopedia entry about a town, not a commentary on one of its residents. I don't doubt that Mr. Nail's comments represent an embarrassingly number of the residents, but I don't think that it belongs in an encyclopedia entry.
Looking at entries for other towns, I do not see the entries about individual citizens foibles and idiocies, and it is hard to make a claim that Mr. Nail has any real importance to the world at large (as opposed to, for instance, details about Mayor Daly in an entry about Chicago.) I have no intention to foster any sort of coverup, I lived in Martinsville for about 6 years, in the 70's, so I am not suffering under any sort of "Civic pride" in regard to it. Boomcoach 19:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

This'll shock you, Boomcoach, but you've convinced me. I won't repost. However, I do feel the Martinsville article paints the town in a particularly forgiving light. I think perhaps it is due its own article (there's whole pages devoted to college quarterbacks who threw hail mary passes) so I don't think it's inappropriate for Wikipedia. The incident bespeaks the town's recent cultural climate, but it doesn't single-handedly encompass the municipality's history.

I agree. I will certainly read the article you linked to, and I think leaving it on the Talk page is a good thing. Boomcoach 20:04, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Martinsville High School

The links to martinsville high school link to the wrong martinsville high school. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.185.71.194 (talk) 03:31, 26 February 2007 (UTC).

The article for Martinsville High School was deleted, and is now a link for the school with the same name in Virginia. I removed the linkage, but left the text. Boomcoach 13:41, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Corrections, updates, and comments

I edited the Martinsville, Indiana page. I apology for the formatting as I am just learning Wikipedia's code. I am used to HTML. Give me a week and I will have the article corrected.

Some errors I corrected or deleted:

  • There were over 12 sanitariums in Martinsville including the first black sanitarium. It may have been the first black sanitarium in the United States, but I cannot verify that at the moment and am still looking for that source.
  • The person murdered in Martinsville was not a teenager, but a 21-year-old woman.
  • There was no Klan rally and march in Martinsville 1967. The city leaders refused to allow it, but they found no legal way to stop the Klan's motorcade from driving around the square. The city leaders asked that all residents not go to the square and ignore the Klan's actions. As a result the Klan's visit to Martinsville was a nonevent, which is perhaps that is why the Klan never returned to Martinsville (last sentence simply my comment, not something I added to the article).
  • I deleted the following, "According to the Southern Poverty Law Center's Hate Groups Map for the state of Indiana from 2005[2], there is no Ku Klux Klan Chapter in Martinsville, although it does refer to a group called 'Council Of Conservative Citizens'." I could not find anything to substantiate the comment except the old (2002 I think) blurp on the Southern Poverty Law Center's Web site. I checked Reporter articles, the Council Of Conservative Citizens' Web site, which has no listing for Martinsville at all, and the only reference I could find was to a scheduled meeting (no evidence as to whether it actually took place) on Southern Poverty Law Center Web site. I cannot even currently locate that reference on their Web site. Barring any proof that the meeting actually took place and that this organization has a presence in Martinsville/Morgan County I see no reason for the inclusion of this information. The information is not verifiable.

Added new historical information:

I am the digital archivist for the Morgan County Library and I added a lot of new historical information and added to the list of names of notables.

I will be contacting members of the historical society and city leaders to see if they will add information.

NOTE: Regarding the African American/racial incidents in Martinsville, while I admit it is much more titillating to focus on the very few racial incidents that has occurred in the area, IMO it gives a much factual picture of Martinsville, the surrounding area and its residents if those incidents are balanced with the hundreds of African Americans who have safely lived and worked in the area for over a hundred years.

There may be facts that the other authors here might be unaware of. Here is an article by one of Morgan County's historians - http://scican3.scican.net/bh/index.html.

VLH2375 10:07, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reformatting

VLH2375 added a ton of excellent information. I have started to reformat the various links and cites throughout the article. My goals are:

  • Add reference section
  • Change links that should be citations to reference format
  • When possible, change external links to textual links (see Historical Photographs example in opening)
  • Wikilink internal articles.

This should allow the numbered citations to be actual citations, reduce the numbers. The article was up to citation 26, the vast majority of which were not actual citations.Boomcoach 14:35, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Broomcoach is there any way I can just send you the material I have and can get? I can write the copy and provide verification, but since I have yet to learn the code Wikipedia uses it might be helpful if we could work together. Please, do not misunderstand I fully intend to learn the code. I am just in a time crunch right now. VLH2375 10:48, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion of history

I reverted the anonymous deletion of the information about the murder. As many people who have some familiarity with Martinsville know of the incident, it seems wrong to ignore it, and the explanation clears up misconceptions. Boomcoach 01:42, 16 September 2007 (UTC)