Talk:Marth (Fire Emblem)

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Marth (Fire Emblem) was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: October 9, 2007

While adding a moveset is fine, if you're going to do it, at least make it legible and complete. As it stands, the moveset was ugly, crunched together, and incomplete. And so much expansion on the Dancing Blade (forward-B) was unnecessary. If you all really think it's necessary, I'll just help clean it up next time. Any thoughts? -Stryfe 19:56, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

I'm trying to clean up all of these PoV articles in relation to SSBM. I don't know what this is all about, but their is no 'tier' system. I have replaced this with the comments given in the strategy book by Nintendo Power, which is officially endorsed by Nintendo, a far more balanced and fair source.

The tier system is used by the online Smash community. It comes from Smashboard's Melee Back Room (where many of the top-level players meet) and is accepted by the community as the tier list. It isn't POV because it merely reflects the sentiments of the community - it does not state outright that Marth is one of the best three characters in the game. The Nintendo Power ratings, by the way, are complete rubbish - to a much greater extent than it is "official." MaskedSheik 23:53, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I went along and deleted where it said Marth has difficulties attacking behind him. You could say the same for most smash characters as well. Marth can at least do a smash Back A to hit those behind him. -Nicknyte 00:30, May 16, 2006

Contents

[edit] Images are needed!

I could post images but I for one don't make my own graphics nor do I have any contact with others who design their own graphics. If you are able to obtain or make your own graphics of Marth (no fanart), than I'd like to ask if someone could replace the "No Image Yet" spaces with the images as told in the captions. Remember they must BE of Marth only! Samusfan80 21:37, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

On a related note, does anyone know where official art of FE3 (especially Marth) can be found? I've searched the web over and have not found anything Xubelox 21:35, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
I have found a page of FE3 from the official Intelligent Systems website of the first 5 games which the web page is no longer updated and I think now Intelligent Systems uses a new and improved FE Series altho the older site still exists, if you can gain permission or whatever, please do so!!
The link can be found here also note this web page is in Japanese only:
Samusfan80 01:34, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
I've found large and high quality official art of Marth from both FE1 and FE3, that doesn't seem to be on the Intelligent Systems website. I think it might have been scanned from someone's guidebook or something. Either way, I don't know how to put the image or copyright inferences up. I've preserved the original filenames, but I don't remember exactly where I got the FE3 image from; I think it was a Nintendo Forum. Mukino 11:46, 26 November 2006


Is this pic ok? http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/121/p0521061441ty1.jpg I took it a pic of my TV while playing Super Smash Bros. Melee. And I know it isnt of good quality. I have others as well.staceeSHAW 05:35, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

silver777 05:23, 30 december 2006 (UTC)
This is the official picture of Marth[[2]]I found this from someone at deviantart.com who says that he bought the game and found this image in it[[3]]

[edit] Difficulty of use

As a Marth player for over 3 years, I feel the statement that Marth is difficult to use in competitive play a bit biased. He's more difficult to use in beginner play where dealing damage is stressed more heavily, but as you move on to a more advanced level, he only requires precision and the ability to not take hits, whereas other characters, such as Fox or Falco, require combos to be set up and repeated with accuracy AND precision. 71.99.120.11 15:24, 4 June 2006 (UTC) Gah, forgot to log in...the above comment was written by me. Jgamekeeper 15:25, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Soku da" vs "Soko da"

I'm relatively sure what Marth says when countering an attack in Super Smash Bros. Melee is "soko da", and not "soku da." Is there a legitimate source for the info? "Soko da" is an incredibly commonly used statement in Japanese, yet I've never even heard the word "soku".

Though it's a relatively minor discrepancy, I just want to be sure. Darkslime 17:39, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's soko da. In Romaji, many words with a "u" at the end have a silent "u" sound. The one, The only: FrogTape 01:05, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Marth's Gender

Reading this page, I can't help to notice that Marth is sometimes 'he' and sometimes 'she'. On this page, in the box on the right, it says Princess, but on the pages of the two games it says he's a prince. Can someone who knows which one is right fix it? 131.155.116.184 13:02, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

It's pretty obvious it was the work of a vandal. >_< -Cartoonmaster 00:19, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Marth is definitely Male, as seen from in-game text of Super Smash Bros. Melee, the Smash bros. website, and his male sounding voice, as well as his physical appearance. I fixed numerous of these errors, though I don't think I found them all. -Alreajk (talk) 03:06, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Afterwards, Marth gets gay married to Sheeda for the insurance and spends her time rebuilding Akaneia. Yup, proof of Vandalism right there. I think I got most or not all of the anomalies. -Alreajk (talk) 03:14, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Last name, counter quotes, changes, and manga

I watched a fansubbed version of the Fire Emblem OVA and he introduced himself as "Marth Lowell" ("Boku wa Marusu... Marusu Roweru, Aritia no ouji," I think is what he said. [Translation: I am Marth... Marth Lowell, Prince of Aritia.] And in that order, not reversed like Japanese traditionally do with their names. Is that because FE games are based on mostly European mythology?) Other people on the Internet also say that his last name is Lowell. Can anyone else verify this romanization? Can I put it in the article?

Also, when Marth performs a counter in SSBM, he doesn't only say "Soko da" - he can say two other things. Can anyone translate the other two?   -Cartoonmaster 00:19, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and are we going to include changes in his/Falchion's appearance throughout the series? (ex: his pants/lack thereof ~♥)

...And what about the Fire Emblem manga by Maki Hadoka? Is that noteworthy?   -Cartoonmaster 00:45, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Though I can't be sure without playing it right now I'm pretty sure when he counters he either says "soko da" or "saseru ka?" 86.129.241.207 18:11, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Hm, it sounds something more like "Saseru mono ka", which, if "saseru" means "to make/let someone do" and "mono ka" is a strong negation comparable to "never," I'm gonna guess it means something like "I'll never let you!" or something?
Mm, here's confirmation: [[4]]
And "mikita" is how you spell the other one. (My instincts were right..hehe.. But it never hurts to check) Mikita means "I see through it [the attack]" because "mikiru" means "to see everything"
In the end, I guess it doesn't really matter for Wikipedia beyond knowing trivia now that the quotes are no longer here... But it's fun figuring it all out anyways, as a Marth cosplayer and fangirl ^_^   --Cartoonmaster 06:47, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA push

I'll try to get this to GA. I don't see any reason why it can't reach that staus. Thank you. Ashnard Talk Contribs 09:15, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

For a start, I assume it was decided to use the names used in Super Smash Bros. Melee? I can't help but think it would be better to use the official (Japanese) names, which were used in the actual Fire Emblem games. For example, Akaneia instead of Altea. That said, is it preferred to use the English names were possible? Aveyn Knight 20:26, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

The general rule is that if something is officially mentioned in its English form, then we should use English as opposed to Japanese. As far as I know, Nintendo have mentioned both Marth and Akanea officially. Ashnard Talk Contribs 06:14, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

One thing, I haven't played this game, but is it Akanea or Akaneia? Is Altea separate from Akanea or not? Are they the same thing? Anyway, most things are done now, so I'm nominating it for GA. There's a long list, so it will take a while. Ashnard Talk Contribs 06:31, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I haven't played the game, so please tell me if there are any incosistencies, Aveyn. Ashnard Talk Contribs 06:40, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

As much as I don't like it, I guess that is the answer that I need. It just seems a tiny bit strange, being a Fire Emblem fan, myself, and having to use names that more-or-less alien to me (I haven't played Super Smash Bros. Melee), and likely others. That said, I think more people know Marth from Super Smash Bros. Melee than Fire Emblem, in the West at least.
Anyway, the official term in-game used is Akaneia. I'm pretty sure it appears on a map in-game. If not (I haven't played it in a while), it also appears heavily in other sources, like the guidebooks, Fire Emblem World site (the official one, not the fan one) and others. Akaneia is the name of the continent of the game, as well as the name of the most prominent country- which Princess Niena hails from, and which becomes the Akaneia Empire in Book 2 of the game. Altea/Aritia is a country within the continent of Akaneia. Aveyn Knight 13:08, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Okay. Thanks for clearing that up. Ashnard Talk Contribs 14:38, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I can see what I did there. In my first comment, I meant to write "Akaneia instead of Akanea", and not "Akaneia instead of Altea". That's what happens when I'm not used to the names. I'll change all the occurences of Akaneia back into Akanea, since Akanea was used in Super Smash Bros. Melee. Aveyn Knight 16:29, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
No problem. I'm error-prone myself. Ashnard Talk Contribs 17:31, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't see how this article can reach GA status (or even survive AFD) without out of universe information. --Mika1h 21:01, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

It has. Super Smash Bros. Melee. Ashnard Talk Contribs 21:04, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Umm, what? I mean how the character has been created, cultural impact and so on. See for example Characters of Final Fantasy VIII. --Mika1h 21:59, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
That information just simply isn't available. You know, I don't just pick and choose for these articles; if the information was out there, then I'd include it. It isn't—there's nothing I can do about that. Ashnard Talk Contribs 16:35, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
As for AfD, that's a matter of notability, which this has. Ashnard Talk Contribs 16:45, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
WP:FICTION states that "fictional concepts are notable if they contain substantial real-world content from reliable primary and secondary sources". If this subject (as in this case Marth) doesn't have that "real-world content", it's not notable. --Mika1h 22:31, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Do you know what real-world content is? It would be totally in-universe if it mentioned the plot summary alone and was written as if it was real. However, this has information about how he is notable. As in, he popularised Fire Emblem in the West. He was the introduction to Fire Emblem. The whole SSBM section is written out-of-universe. This is as well as the anime. Have you even read the article? Ashnard Talk Contribs 14:41, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

"fictional concepts are notable if they contain substantial 'real-world content from reliable primary and secondary sources". This article has that. Ashnard Talk Contribs 14:54, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, I don't think that's enough but anyway that's up to the GA reviewer to decide. --Mika1h 23:03, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
The matter of whether or not it is notable enough is an AfD matter. As this hasn't been proposed for merger or deletion, GA is a matter of the article's quality. Thanks. Ashnard Talk Contribs 15:39, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
It ties with one of GA criteria: broad in coverage. --Mika1h 20:03, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
It couldn't possibly be broader with the information that is now on the internet. The only thing missing is his conception and creation (which isn't accessible), but that doesn't stop it from being broad, it just stops it from being comprehensive. Ashnard Talk Contribs 20:40, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA not passed

This article is not broad in its coverage (3a). Video game characters absolutely need to have information on their concept and creation. Articles such as Aerith Gainsborough and Princess Peach have been delisted for not including such coeverage. All Video game Good articles have information on their development. I cannot in good conscience pass this article when it does not meet that standard. hbdragon88 03:09, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] questzion

is marth gay cuz else y would he carry a sword? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.215.168.209 (talk) 06:58, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Please die. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.90.122.82 (talk) 16:26, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Marth in Brawl?

Um, could we get some citation for this? I certainly haven't seen anything along the likes of Marth being in Brawl yet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.74.241.216 (talk) 14:56, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I've removed it as there's no source, which I'll be looking out for in the meantime. Thanks. Ashnard Talk Contribs 17:06, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
There is to if this isn't real I'm an ASS http://www.gametrailers.com/player/30051.html BaconBoy914 (talk) 01:56, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes. If you'd look, the info is now sourced and on the article. Ashnard Talk Contribs 07:43, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I made a minor edit stating that Marth uses the same voice actor from SSBM as he does for SSBB. Evidence at 2:36: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KLx1vTusps Same voice as that of SSBM's Marth. Mitcjase (talk) 04:49, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Sakurai confirmed Marth on smashbros.comGeh heh heh (talk) 15:23, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

Shouldn't the top picture of the character be of the game the character is from instead of Brawl? You don't see Cloud Strife's picture being of Kingdom Hearts even though it's a more recent game, because it's unrelated to the original game. --AnY FOUR! (talk) 13:38, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Response: Then why don't we change Mario's main picture to his NES sprite? Why not do that to Link, Zelda, and others?

The SSBB offical portrait of Marth is much better quality than the original picture on this page; You can't deny that.

This shouldn't be a big deal in the first place, anyway. --Bossadai (talk) 14:08, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sick of Marth being called a female

Am I the only one who's getting incredibly sick and tired of all the text that says HE'S a girl?! 65.90.122.82 (talk) 16:27, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Assessment

Hey, I'm your assessor from Wikiproject Video games. I see that the article is now in the B-class range. I believe something needs to be done with the localization section (since it is so short), and the header image doesn't seem appropriate for English Wikipedia. As for pros, this article is filled with references, and the style of writing is satisfactory. Good job! With a lot more work, you guys can easily achieve GA.--haha169 (talk) 21:03, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. It would be spectacular if you could relay this to Ashnard before he starts attempting to merge the article again. - Norse Am Legend (talk) 03:17, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
I've got this watchlisted. Please, if any of you can get some valid information relating to Concept and Creation and Reception then be my guest to use it. I won't wait with bated breath though. Ashnard Talk Contribs 08:02, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Should we merge though just because we don't have Concept and, Creation and Receptions section? The fact that it is a B-Class article suggests it maybe worth keeping and just because we can't find Concept and, Creation and Reception now doesn't mean we can't at a later date. I'm not an assessor or a fan of Fire Emblem but perhaps if we could expand the localization section it could reach A-class? --Sin Harvest (talk) 01:14, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
I did one google news search and came up with this. It's not a lot, but it's something. What's available with a news search changes every 30 days or so. I don't think the problem is that Marth isn't notable, it's just that we arent' checking often enough. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) 06:02, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, Peregrine. Mind you, that one may be a bit misleading as, in the source, the main characters are mentioned generically, so they're not actually talking about Marth specifically here. It is a reference to the Fire Emblem lords and not Marth. I must also say that the rest of "Reception" isn't actually "reception" and shouldn't exist unless it's labeled under a different topic. To Sin Harvest, we shouldn't preserve an article on the hope that material may one day become avilable for it. Ashnard Talk Contribs 08:16, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm not solely suggesting that we hang onto this article until the Concept and Creation and Receptions information becomes available I just pointed out that it could be found at a later date. My main point is that as a B-rated article it does contain a fair amount of properly sourced and relevant information perhaps enough to for this article to remain as it's own article though that maybe pushing it. --Sin Harvest (talk) 08:59, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Norse, surely you're not using underhand tactics to gain support? I apologise if that isn't you. Ashnard Talk Contribs 10:38, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Eh, I don't go to GameSpot. - Norse Am Legend (talk) 23:03, 5 May 2008 (UTC)