Talk:Marsh Arabs

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[edit] Marsh Arabs are living Sumerians

Ancient Sumerian culture preserved in the marshes.

http://www.laputanlogic.com/articles/2004/01/24-0001.html

http://www.laputanlogic.com/articles/2004/01/28-0002.html

http://www.laputanlogic.com/articles/2004/04/14-0001.html

"In the veins of the Ahwar Arabs there runs Sumerian blood more than that in the veins of any other Arabian tribe. Only those Ahwar Arabs are the grandchildren of the ancient civilization." - World-renowned Norwegian explorer and archaeologist Thor Heyerdahl.^[1]

[edit] Suggested merger

User:Evanemak argues that since Madan (people) and Marsh Arabs cover the same topic, the two articles should be merged. I have reformatted it from a move request to a merger request. --Stemonitis 11:39, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Link to Sumerians

The cited article by Hamid K. Ahmed draws a very vague line between the ancient Sumerians and the Marsh Arabs. He writes: Some theorize the Ma'dan might be the descendants of the Sumerians, due to similarities they share in their primitive way of life.

However, this is an extremely speculative statement, without hard evidence. Ahmed writes: In his film Cradle of Civilisation, Michael Wood describes some recognizable designs that are seen in Sumerian carvings 5000 years ago. This is anything but scientific evidence.

Claiming Sumerian ancestry has been fashionable among many peoples. It is usually motivated by the desire to extend ones own glorious history into the depth of millennia, but, no, it cannot be taken serious and should not be presented as factual in an encyclopaedia.

The Sumerian language has been extinct for almost 4 millennia. Already around 2600 BC - more than 4600 years ago(!), they lost their dominance of Mesopotamia to the Akkadians.

Therefore the phrase "it is believed" should be replaced by much more cautious language (if not stripped altogether), the above wording "some theorise" probably being a good choice. --Johannes Rohr 21:50, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

There are many sources which show the links between Marsh Arabs and ancient indigenous inhabitants of Mesopotamia, which is an issue for anthropologists, not scientists (we are talking about humans and civilisation here, not test tubes) and you can do a Google search to find them. Also there are two sources there, and I can put many more if needed. Marsh Arabs are not "motivated by the desire to extend ones own glorious history into the depth of millennia" as you would like to claim. In fact they are the least nationalistic of peoples in Iraq (in fact they have never even been very politically organised) and have been one of the most persecuted groups there, having been permanently displaced from their natural habitat by Saddam. Khorshid 22:36, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I went through most of the links you provided (some where unavailable for various reasons). Most were non-scientific. And there was not a single study among them, that specifically supports your case. They use language like "it is thought", "it is believed" or "The culture of the Marsh Arabs as we now know it is, in a sense, the heir and descendant of the Sumerian culture." etc. This is all extremely vague and by no means the same as biological descent, as the phrase "direct descendants suggests. I firmly believe that it is virtually impossible to proof descent from a society which has been gone for almost four millennia. Please provide hard facts: Is there any specific reputable scientific source, that supports this extremely bold claim? --Johannes Rohr 22:09, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I added some data from the United Nations Environmental Programme that seems to suggest the Marshes have experiences significant improvements since 2003

http://www.grid.unep.ch/product/poster/images/iraqi_marshlandsb