Talk:Marquess of Lothian

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I have found only 3 daughters of the 13th Marquess and no son. --VM 21:53, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Article is correct re: heir presumptive. Do we need a article seperately explaining the differences (-v- apparant) or is this covered already elsewhere? -- Alci12 18:19, 25 Mar 2005

Re: differences: I think the difference between heir apparent and heir presumptive is that the heir apparent is an offspring of the current incumbent and an heir presumptive is an offspring of an ancestor of the current incumbent. Is that right? --VM 18:23, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

No, that's not it. An heir apparent is someone who need only outlive the current holder to inherit. No one can be born who would displace him from the line of succession. An heir presumptive, on the other hand, can be prevented from inheriting by the birth of someone with a greater "right". In a title to "heirs male of the body" there's not much difference between this and the way you've conceptualized it, but the marquessate of Lothian has a special remainder, failing heirs male of the body, to the other heirs of entail succeding to the 1st Marquess in his estate "for all time to come". In the current situation, the brother is "presumptive" because the current holder could, at some point, father a son. - Nunh-huh 18:50, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Lord Newbattle

Gentlemen, is not it Newbattle, rather than Newbottle? --Anglius 04:27, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Sources differ. Burkes is a bit confused: "THE 12TH MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN, Earl of Lothian, Earl of Ancram (twice), Viscount of Briene, Lord Jedburgh, Lord Ker of Newbattle, Lord Ker of Nisbet, Langnewtoun, and Dolphinstoun, Lord Ker of Newbottle, Oxnam, Jedburgh, Dolphinstoun and Nisbet and Baron Ker of Kersheugh, Co Roxburgh", but Cracroft's gives both as "Newbottle" (changing the first to "Lord Newbottle"), and Leigh Rayment's Peerage Page also gives both as "Newbottle". Proteus (Talk) 07:50, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

I thank you, Mr. Tilman. I would think that it would Newbattle, since that is the name of the village. --Anglius 20:20, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I've given the article a major rehaul, based on the Complete Peerage, and it seems that some of the peerages are indeed "Newbottle" and some "Newbattle". However, I'm now not even sure the "Newba/ottle" peerages are used — the 3rd and 4th Marquesses certainly used "Lord Jedburgh" whilst their grandfathers were Marquesses, and I can't find any information that suggests the later Marquesses didn't follow suit. Proteus (Talk) 21:59, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I appreciate your effort, sir. --Anglius 00:42, 16 December 2005 (UTC)