Talk:Marks & Spencer

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Retailing To-do: | edit | history | watch | purge Here are some tasks you can do: Copyedit: Target Corporation, Wal-Mart - to be used as an examples for ideal page structure Cleanup: T.J. Maxx reads like advert; see talk page discussion Expand: Store manager, List of articles on project page, image gallery on project page, Hypermarket (history section), Category killer - This is very US/Canada centric - Ikea exists elsewhere, too. Stubs: Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market, Archer Farms, ClearRx Other: Department store - discriminate between itself and Discount store. Category killer - If a Category Killer dominates its area, why are there many stores listed per category? There should be clear criteria for when a store is included, otherwise this just becomes an advertising page.

It's apparent M&S spends relatively little on marketing their company. Perhaps someone could touch on this.

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—Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.156.68.246 (talk) 13:49, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Is it worth mentioning the recent, ongoing campaign by USDAW to get recognition from Marks and Spencer? --Chryma

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The article suggests that Marks and Spencer have never opened on a Sunday until very recently, but in Scotland they've been doing so for as long as I can remember. --DWeir

I can't remember if this is correct, or not, but am I right in thinking that the Baker St. offices are on the site of where Sherlock Holmes address of 221b Baker Street would be if it actually existed and that at one time M&S had an office in the building dedicated to answering letters addressed to Holmes? If this was so, is it still the case or have they moved these operations to the 221b Baker Street museum (which is actually located a bit further up the road). Mintguy 23:46 Dec 15, 2002 (UTC)

I think it's the Abbey National, not M&S -- Tarquin

Ahh... yes of course, much obliged. My searches on Google form Holmes and M&S were coming up blank. Mintguy

BTW, Abbey National is now Abbey. Lee M 05:18, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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Is it just me, or does the phrase "supporters of the Palestinian people in their struggle against Zionism" seem a bit too POV? - Lee M 18:42, 29 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Not sure how that is POV (what else might people think they are struggling against?) but I think it reads better now anyway. Thank you for your edit. GrahamN 01:59, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)

The term "Zionism" is potentially inflammatory.

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Contents 1 Page Name 2 Jewish? 3 Date of founding 4 What is "half bear half Jewish"? 5 POV? 6 "Your M&S" 7 Newcastle Market Stall 8 Early Days Entry 9 Credit Cards 10 Financial Services 11 Penny Bazaar in Newcastle 12 New logo - wrong letter spacing? 13 Removed comment - Israelis and Palestinians 14 Fair use rationale for Image:M&S logo.png 15 M&S Ireland 16 Clean-up Tag 17 Originaly Formed In Wigan 18 St Michael 19 M&S mission statement 20 St Margaret

[edit] Page Name

What is the point of the move to Marks & Spencer (plc)? Mintguy (T) 11:19, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC) Surely we should have the page at Marks & Spencer there is no ambiguity, and this is what we see on the front of every store. Mintguy (T) 11:19, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Could somebody fix the sentence The company's share price fell by more than two thirds, and its profits fell from more than a billion pounds in 199 and XXXX to £1.5 million in the year ended 31 March 2001.? --JBellis 12:39, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jewish?

Controversy

The founders of Marks and Spencer were Jewish, and the company long retained a Jewish identity to some degree. It has been caught up in one of two disputes related to Israel, but this has gone largely unnoticed by the British public.

Intriguing. Specifics? Pcb21| Pete 12:56, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

From is birth M&S has been linked inextricably to Zionism. In fact in a book on M&S, Lord Marcus Sieff - long time Chairman of M&S - wrote that one of the fundamental objectives of M&S is to aid the economic development of Israel (Management: The Marks & Spencer Way, Weidenfield & Nicolson, 1990).

M&S supports Israel with approximately $233 million in trade every year (Jerusalem Report, 5 June 2000) .

The JTA reported that "The Israeli ambassador to England recently honored Marks & Spencer for the company's continued support of Israel." (JTA, 13 December 2000).

In 1998 Sir Richard Greenbury Marks & Spencer, received the Jubilee Award by the Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu. This is the highest tribute ever awarded by the "State of Israel" in recognition of those individuals and organizations, that through their investments and trade relationships, have done the most to strengthen the Israeli economy. From http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-marks-and-spencer.html

[edit] Date of founding

I was confused by the conflicting dates 1884 and 1894, so I looked it up on their website. The history page here says Marks started the first business in 1884, but partnered with Spencer in 1894. So which should we use? (The two places it's stated are the infobox and the list of chairmen; I think we should be consistent, and I think it should also be detailed at the top of the History section.) --Galaxiaad 17:51, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What is "half bear half Jewish"?

Just as the subject says --- what indeed DOES this mean? Is this some sort of joke? Potentially anti-Semitic?

And incidentally, is this true about selling only Arabic-made goods? That, too, sounds a little weird.

[edit] POV?

"M&S deliver an excellent service to all its customers." Hmmm...?--Codenamecuckoo 20:22, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I removed it; it's not acceptable in that form.

Now, if it was said that a reputable authority/survey had shown that many people considered M&S's service excellent, *and* this was referenced, it would be acceptable.

(Note that a rewrite like "Some consider M&S's service to be excellent" alone would not be acceptable because it's a weasel-type phrase.) Fourohfour 12:40, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Your M&S"

Regarding the minor dispute over whether Marks & Spencer are now "called" "Your M&S", or whether this is a branding exercise. TR Wolf claims that "I work for M&S, and validate this fact.'" I've no idea what he actually does at M&S (shelf filler or head of marketing), so can't tell if he's in a position to reliably confirm/deny corporate policy or not.

I was going to ask if this constituted original research- but only in a technical sense. Then I remembered *why* original research is frowned upon; it's hard to reliably gauge the validity or reliability of author, claim and source- the exact problem above. That's why we want referenced third-party sources!

I'm not saying that TR Wolf is wrong nor untrustworthy. On the contrary, as we now know he works for M&S it's far more likely that he's right- but I'm afraid "I work for M&S, and validate this fact'" still isn't a third-party reference.

Oh I work in Menswear, I only said that I could verify that stores call themselves "Your M&S" because we do, on the phone too, and when we call other stores they answer the same way, all tannoy announcements refer to the stores as "Your M&S", I mean Im obviously not cookiemonster, who seems to be Stuart Rose himself!! ... speaking of which, why is there no M&S logo on the article now? TR_Wolf

Now that I'm on the subject, this article really needs references, full stop.

Fourohfour 13:34, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

In reply to this comment, as a different employee of M&S (I'm currently a trainee commercial manager three months into the scheme; the information comes from a presentation given to us at Head Office, Alexandra House, in September.), there is a debate about whether to officially rebrand all stores (ie front of shop signs) as 'M&S' or leave it as 'Marks and Spencers'. It's my understanding that the company is currently 'Marks and Spencers', but uses the 'Your M&S / M&S' logo partly as a slogan and partly as an unofficial brand name. 'M&S' is on some signs for redeveloped stores (e.g. Edgware Road), but the argument about whether to change all shops goes on. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.35.144.188 (talk • contribs) .

Does the Edgware Road store sign only have the new logo on it, i.e. it doesn't say "Marks and Spencer" at all? I ask because the Newcastle store (Northumberland Street) recently got a new sign which includes both the "old" and "new" logos. AdorableRuffian 20:22, 29 November 2006 (UTC)3

The Dublin Liffey Valley Shopping Centre store, which was refitted recently, has had only "M&S" on its exterior logos since the start of July - the "Your M&S" logo without the "Your" bit. Yet the Dublin Mary Street store was only refitted three months previous has "Marks and Spencer" on its exterior logos, these having replaced the 1990s small caps version (which itself only relatively recently replaced an even earlier logo). The Grafton Street store still has the 1990s logo on it. --Rdd 21:53, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I think that "Your M&S" is just a trading name, which does not have to be registered with Companies House. If you look closely at the recent TV campaign, including the insurance ad, there is a disclaimer on the bottom of the screen along the lines of "Marks & Spencer Financial Services trading as Your M&S" - grateful if anyone can confirm the wording. Dmccormac 19:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Newcastle Market Stall

Does anyone know whether Marks and Spencers still operate a stall on Grainger Market in Newcastle? I know it still operated 3 or 4 years ago, but is it still there? If so then it must be worth a mention, as it is one of the early stores from when the company started out.Drc79 22:47, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the Grainger Market shop is still there as of 26th March 2007 (and going great guns as far as I could see). The store still has its original Penny Bazaar sign, and interestingly all of the modern in-store signage follows the "Penny Bazaar" theme as well (there isn't a modern "Your M&S" logo to be seen!)

I have no idea if the Newcastle operation is unique, but it deserves a mention in the article without a doubt. Ideally I would like to take a photograph and add it to the article, but I suspect the positioning of the stall and the lighting would make this difficult. 217.34.39.123 11:57, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Early Days Entry

Whats going on here? This is terribly written, with poor grammar and repetitions of information, as well as inconsistancies in the text! Was Mr Marks Belarusian? Was He Russian? This needs a nice rewrite. Apologies to the people who have written this, it needs love... --GeologyTom 17:21, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Credit Cards

--Bill Tegner 23:51, 7 February 2007 (UTC)My memory is that M&S brought in a store card because customers objected to their cash or cheque only policy. But they held out for far longer (in the UK) against credit cards, giving the impression of "it's our policy not to accept them" (never mind the customer). Can anyone remember when they started accepting them? I think that it was around 1999. Bill Tegner 23:51, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't know but I can ask some of the people who have been at the store for agggges! Jackacon 21:24, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Financial Services

I couldn't find a reference to "Marks and Spencer Financial Services". Does this still exist?Bill Tegner 23:54, 7 February 2007 (UTC) --Bill Tegner 23:54, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I think M&SFS was bought outright by HSBC, back when Marks were nearly going under. All the cash machines instore are owned by them at any rate Jackacon 22:53, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Penny Bazaar in Newcastle

I have added a mention of this to the article. Incidentally, the Penny Bazaar is not listed on the M&S website, possibly because it now operates as a "satellite" of the full-sized Newcastle store. It's a well-kept secret. 217.34.39.123 12:33, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that. It's good to know that it didn't get closed as part of the cutbacks when M&S was going through hard times.Drc79 18:05, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New logo - wrong letter spacing?

I see the article now shows the brand new Marks & Spencer logo, which is only just starting to appear on new product packaging. However, the letter spacing on this appears to be wrong when compared to the real logo. (The letters are much closer together in reality.) 217.155.20.163 16:43, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Edit: oh, and it's the wrong font, too! The real font is similar to this but not identical (the "R" looks different). Note that it isn't the same font as is used in the "Your M&S" logo. 217.155.20.163 16:45, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I was under the impression that the only font M & S now used was Helvetica Neue. All the signage in my local store is presented in Helvetica Neue Light, and I thought the M & S was simply UltraLight, but everyone here seems to be saying it's not? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.167.10.12 (talk) 21:45, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

This is in fact not the new Marks & Spencer logo. i work for the companies marketing team, and we will continue to use the existing Marks & Spencer stacked logo. we have decided that a new updated logo is not needed, as we now use the Your M&S insignia on all external and internal advertising. The Your M&S logo will now be associated to the retail division of the group, whilst the existing Marks & Spencer logo will be used on all coporate documentation only. So i would suggest that this logo is removed and the correct stacked Marks & Spencer logo returned. (in accordance with our copyright policy of course)

So what's the new logo (on product packaging) all about, then? I'm talking about the small "Marks & Spencer" logo that appears on the recently redesigned packaging for things like pre-packed cheese. It's a stacked logo as before, but it's now in a sort of Arial-ish font.

It seems at the moment they're using three different logos - one for corporate use, store fronts, and existing product packaging; a different one for redesigned product packaging; and yet another one for advertising and promotion (the "Your M&S" one). Is this arrangement likely to continue? 217.155.20.163 13:54, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

You re correct we are indeed using a simple stacked logo on some packaging but this is only used on certain packaging and is only used as part of our plan A £100 million eco plan. it is somehow more envirionmentally friendly to produce certain packaging using this logo as opposed to any of the coporate ones. this stacked logo has no coporate bearing. look out next week for te second phase of awareness advertising for plan A including a 90 second television advert.

[edit] Removed comment - Israelis and Palestinians

The following comment by me was removed some time ago by User:Purgatory Fubar with an explanation along the lines of "RM comment unrelated to article - talk pages are not forums". This user's reasoning was entirely incorrect, as this was in fact a request for information sources which I believe may be useful in the creation or editing of the article - it was not simply "idle talk" as it were, along the lines of "M&S is crap" or whatever.

If there is a significant organised campaign against Marks and Spencer for whatever reason, which I took to be the case from my brief experience in March, then I believe that is a notable fact that should be added to the article.

I therefore repeat the comment below, and kindly ask that this user not delete such comments in future. Thank you. 217.155.20.163 14:08, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I passed by the Newcastle branch of M&S earlier today. There was a bunch of protesters outside, shouting slogans like "Boycott Marks and Spencer" and "End Israeli Apartheid", along with various things about Palestinians.

Does anyone know what this is about? Is M&S connected in some way to the Israeli government, or has it done things which Palestinians believe to be bad? I found it curious for two reasons: (a) M&S has no stores in Israel; (b) M&S has several stores in countries that are not exactly friendly towards Israel. 217.155.20.163 16:33, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:M&S logo.png

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BetacommandBot 23:12, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] M&S Ireland

I've tried to make some improvements to this section - including removal of some of the blatant speculation (how can M&S secure a deal with local authorities over motorway service areas when it is the NRA which is awarding the contracts, and no contracts have yet been awarded). M&S is indeed expanding in Ireland, but I can find nowhere in the Annual Report for a 40 store figure so until it can be cited...

I wonder whether or not an Ireland section should be part of international. On the one hand, the Republic of Ireland is not part of the UK and M&S reports the ROI results as part of its international activities (notwithstanding Marks and Spencer (Ireland) Limited being a wholly owned subsidary of Marks and Spencer plc). On the other hand, M&S ROI operations seem to be so tightly integrated with the UK operations that they run the same advertising campaigns and when Foot and Mouth hit the UK, the ROI stores ran out of stock in many areas of the food sections. Comments? --Rdd 20:55, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure there were M&S shops in Ireland before 1979. Also their goods were branded St Bernard rather than St Michael. Millbanks (talk) 09:08, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

No, you're confusing M&S with the rather similar (but far bigger in Ireland) Dunnes Stores. The stores are very similar (food+textiles) with the old M&S furnishings and old Dunnes Stores furnishings being similar, both also used to have similar small caps logos. The major difference being (1) Dunnes is far less upmarket than M&S, (2) their food strategies, Dunnes (as it is now in the process of rebranding as) carries a full selection of food including other brands in its supermarkets, wheras M&S only sells M&S/St Michael products. "St Bernard" (although the official explaination is different) is rather likely to come from Dunnes' founder, Ben Dunne, Senior. --86.42.211.70 (talk) 19:05, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Clean-up Tag

I have added a cleanup tag to this article. Please see Wikipedia:Manual of Style for further guidance.

--Cookiemonster2006 23:25, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Originaly Formed In Wigan

Marks and Spencer was founded in Wigan when Michael Marks joined up with Thomas Spencer in 1894. For three years the town was the firm's headquarters. before that, the Marks and Spencer had their own two seperate companys. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.33.136.233 (talk) 11:53, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] St Michael

Has anyone any idea when and why this label disappeared? Millbanks (talk) 09:13, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I think I read somewhere that Stuart Rose decided it was to "old fashioned", which is why they've switched to the "Your M&S", try and get down with the kids, or something to that effect! Jackacon (talk) 16:12, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] M&S mission statement

Does anyone know the mission statement of Marks and Spencer in Newcastle upon Tyne and Wear?

[edit] St Margaret

"By 1950, all goods were sold under the St Michael label." I can recall as a child in the late 1950s or early 1960s ny mother buying me M&S underwear that bore a "St Margaret" label. I have an idea that they used St Margaret for their children's range for a while, whilst usingg St Michael for their adult range. JH (talk page) 20:13, 30 March 2008 (UTC)