Talk:Market Technicians Association

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[edit] Unhelpful edits

Edits by ip address 65.9.234.169 included swapping in a wrong link to the MTA board of governors, and a link (financial astrology) which is unrelated to the MTA or CMT. See here. --Rgfolsom 14:59, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Attempt by Rgfolsom to conceal and obscure facts

The issue is not whether financial astrology is related to the MTA, or belongs on the wiki page dedicated to the MTA. What is at issue here, specifically, is that Rgfolsom has protected the wiki MTA page, due to his personal wish to prevent certain factual information from being entered with regard to the MTA library.

Following September 11, 2001, the MTA library was rebuilt chiefly through the selfless dedication of Daniel L. Chesler, CMT, who tirelessly solicited donations from publishers and members of the organization. As George Schade, veteran MTA member wrote on July 20, 2005: "Dan was pretty much responsible for reestablishing the MTA's library after its destruction on 9/11 and tirelessly worked for that end."

These facts are undisputed, as documented in the MTA's own publications (link) --

http://1pixelhost.com/Uploads/files/egqazj1mtbmwz3n5nzdo.pdf

Moreover, on the evening of May 15, 2004, at the MTA's 28th Annual Seminar at the Hilton Marco Island Beach Resort, Ralph Acampora, one of the founders of the MTA, stood before a full room at the formal Saturday night dinner, and publicly thanked Dan Chesler for rebuilding the MTA Library. Also on May 15, 2004, in front of a full audience during the dedication ceremony of the James E. Alphier Library, John Bollinger and Mike Epstein both publicly thanked Mr. Chesler for rebuilding the MTA Library.

[edit] MTA Library

The article is about the MTA, not Mr. Chesler. If you want to write a Wiki article about Mr. Chesler, and mention his contributions to the MTA library, as well as his technical analysis contributions as a whole, that makes sense. Nobody is disputing the fact that Dan Chesler worked very hard on the rebuilding of the library (he was the library committee chair at the time). I also know of authors who contacted their publishers, and requested that the publishers donate full TA libraries (not just books they wrote) to the MTA after the September 11 attacks. That is not the subject of this article.


[edit] Does Not Add Up

You say this article is about the MTA. Yet the author of this article feels compelled to include specific mention of the post-9/11 library rebuild effort, without giving proper credit to the only individual who has ever been specifically cited as being responsible for rebuilding the MTA library: Dan Chesler.

Any discussion of the history of the MTA library can not be factually complete, without giving proper and full credit to Mr. Chesler for being he chief architect of the post-9/11 rebuild effort.

Are you suggesting a new wiki article on the MTA Library should be written, in which Mr. Chesler is given proper credit?

I did not say a new wiki article on "Dan Chesler."

I said a new wiki article on the "MTA library."

Naturally, such an article would need to be linked to the current wiki article on the Market Technicians Association.


[edit] Rgfolsom responds

I humbly suggest that you need to learn more about Wikipedia. I don’t have the power to protect this or any other page. I can only ask for a page to be protected, and in turn the administrators who enforce the rules around here decide if my request is valid. They acted on my request because you've been disruptive in several ways, including the refusal to discuss your edits with me and other contributors -- until you were blocked, that is. Yet even now you're being extremely uncivil, by accusing me of concealing and obscuring information. You're not helping yourself by behaving in this way.
I do not wish to "conceal" anything, but I will say this: ALL the facts in this article about the MTA surely have a larger story behind them. One or several people worked hard to get the MTA started; to publish the first newsletter and journal; to establish the Educational Foundation; to create the CMT designation and coursework; to get the SEC to recognize the CMT designation; etc, etc, etc. Whoever those people are, they haven't come to this article and rudely demanded that their contributions receive "proper and full credit," i.e. recognized by name. If any one of them did such a thing, they would deserve to hear what Sposer said -- that it's not about them.
Please read a few important principles about Wikipedia -- here, here, and here are a good start.

--Rgfolsom 01:02, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I suggested an article on Mr. Chesler, if there is merit (there are many well known technical analysts without articles written on them though, such as John Bollinger, Alan Shaw, Ralph Acampora, or the late John Brooks -- several of these gentlemen were among the founders of the MTA; I do not know what is appropriate for a Wiki article). I did not suggest an article on Chesler's work on the MTA library. The MTA article only mentions, by name, a few ex-Presidents, and the current President. It does not discuss the founders of the MTA, or well-known current or past members. It is about the MTA period, what it is and what it does.

--Sposer

[edit] Facts still wrong

Rgfolsom you're not helping yourself either, by spreading misinformation.

For starters, the SEC only recognizes the CMT level 1 and level 2 exams, and not the CMT designation. The SEC does not even care whether you remain a member of the MTA after passing level 1 and 2 of the CMT exam.

Unlike the other items you mention such as the Journal, the newsletter, the Foundation, etc, all of which were accomplished via joint effort of numerous individuals and committees, the rebuilding of the MTA Library was the handiwork of Dan Chesler. There were no other individuals charged with this responsibility. Therefore, it is not factually correct to say "the library was rebuilt through the dedication of its members" unless those other "members" made a significant contribution.

To resolve this discrepancy, one of the following remedies should be implemented:

1. Include the relevant facts surrounding the rebuilding of the library, giving proper credit to Mr. Chesler.
2. Amend the article to make it clear that the library was rebuilt chiefly via the work of one individual member, and not some anonymous group of MTA "members."
3. A new and seperate wiki article on the subject of the MTA Library, in which proper credit be given to Mr. Chesler, and linked to the current MTA article.
4. Remove the specific reference to the library rebuild effort from the current MTA article. Reference to the MTA library itself will remain.


[edit] Request for resolution

Please resolve this issue so that it does not escalate into an edit war. I do not consider this issue resolved until one of the four remedies listed above has been accepted. Thank you.


[edit] Observations

I have been following this discussion and would like to make the following observations regarding the debate surrounding the MTA Library.

This article is about the MTA, its mission and purpose. Or, to put it in Sposer's own words, "..it is about the MTA period, what it is and what it does."

Therefore any statement regarding the who/what/how/why regarding the rebuilding of the MTA library post-9/11 is not terribly germane or central to the article. A seperate article on the subject of the MTA Library is certainly a more appropriate place for such information. The MTA library has its own history, and is unique in many respects. All of this of information, including information on the post 9/11 rebuild effort led by Mr. Chesler, would make for a very suitable article on its own. As one editor has already pointed out, it would be appropriate to link such an article (on the subject of the MTA library) to the current article on the subject of the MTA itself.

As the MTA article is written right now, it states that:

"Following September 11, 2001, the library was rebuilt through the dedication of its members, and the many publishers who donated their technical analysis libraries to the organization"

This is misleading, as it overlooks the fact that, from top to bottom, every publisher who "donated their technical analysis libraries" to the MTA, did so due to the tireless solicitations of Mr. Chesler, who was soley in charge of this effort. In many cases, during this period of time, Mr. Chesler would report his progress in working with book publishers to the MTA email list, updating the MTA's members with information about new books he had secured commitments for. In many cases, Mr. Chesler was successful in not only replacing books that had been lost due to 9/11, but also in many new securing titles, some rare and expensive, which had never been a part of the previous MTA library.

As for "other members" being involved, this is also misleading. No MTA member has ever been recognized or acknowledged for contributing to the MTA library rebuild effort in any significant way, other than Mr. Chesler. It is wrong and innacurate to attempt to characterize the library rebuild effort as the work of "members" since this is simply not true. Had it not been for Mr. Chesler contacting, soliciting and in some cases begging dozens of book publishers, merchants and individuals to donate books, most of the titles now residing on the MTA library shelves would not be there.