Talk:Mark Hudson

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[edit] Allegations in article

As we appear to be heading for an edit war here, I'd like to start a debate on the information added to the article from Los Angeles Times. I believe that this information shouldn't be included here as there is no exact citing of sources; Journalist Chuck Philips wrote in a Mar 17, 1995 article published in the Los Angeles Times is not good enough as I see it when the information basically accuses the subject of sexual harassment. Also, the information submitted is basically one large excerpt/quote from LA Times, and should therefore be rewritten to conform with Wikipedia policies on neutrality and verifiability. The article mentions a book published by Begnery Publishing, written by Peter Schweizer called "Disney: The Mouse Betrayed", ISBN: 0895263874. Is this a trivial fact, or is it properly sourced in the book? As it stands today, I believe the information should be removed. Bjelleklang - talk Bug Me 12:42, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

The article is properly sourced in the reference pages of the book. The LA times article can be sourced from the back issues of the newspaper. All sources are true.

[edit] Text removed from article

This is the text I've removed: Bjelleklang - talk Bug Me 12:50, 7 June 2007 (UTC)


Journalist Chuck Philips wrote in a Mar 17, 1995 article published in the Los Angeles Times:

"Walt Disney Co. executives said Thursday that the company has fired the top staff producer of its rock music division, Hollywood Records, following complaints from female employees that he sexually harassed them.

The alleged incidents-the first such allegations of sexual harassment at a record company since a scandal rocked the music industry in 1991. They involve Mark Hudson, a Los Angeles songwriter and producer who over the last 20 years has worked on records for such pop stars as Alice Cooper and Aerosmith."

Philips continues:

"At Burbank-based Hollywood Records, women began complaining to senior managers last summer about Hudson's behavior, alleging that he verbally harassed them with lewd remarks and pressured them repeatedly to date him. Hollywood Records executives interviewed Hudson regarding the complaints and subsequently required him to visit a Disney-recommended specialist for counseling, sources said. Although Hollywood Records transferred two women employees to other departments, several other women continued to lodge complaints against Hudson as recently as last October.

It wasn't until last Thursday however, that Hollywood Records executives decided to take action-two days after Seconds magazine, a trade publication focusing on rock 'n' roll culture, published an interview with a former actress who appeared in the Broadway play "Annie" and who is now a recording artist with Sony's Epic Records. In an interview in the magazine, the recording artist related an incident of alleged harassment involving Hudson."

The artist he is referring to in that article is Danielle Brisebois.

There is also mention of this in a book published by Begnery Publishing and written by Peter Schweizer called "Disney: The Mouse Betrayed", ISBN: 0895263874 The reference is on page 20.

The excerpt follows:

"....But from the start, his association with the company caused problems. Female employees repeatedly complained of sexual harassment; they alleged that he made lewd comments and pressured them into dates.

As complaints piled up, Disney executives did nothing, except to ask that he visit a counselor. Two of the women who complained about his behavior were transferred to other jobs.

Disney's attempts to conceal the problem failed when singer Danielle Brisebois went public with exactly what Hudson had done to her when she was only 17 years old and still a minor. "I played him a song of mine," she told Seconds magazine. "While I'm playing him my tape, I look up and he's masturbating." Brisebois says she told him to stop, but Hudson responded with an anatomical reference. She fled the studio in disgust.

Stung by the public embarrassment, Disney let Hudson go in March of 1995..."

[edit] Re-removal of above text

I have re-removed that text from the article for the following reasons:

I read the entire section, and the thing that bothers me is that it was published in the LA Times (supposedly). However, I did a fairly lengthy search for that article, and searched for any articles with his name connected to Danielle's name, searched for articles relating to Disney and him, and came up empty. What bugs me is that someone added that section without citing any sources, so yes I see your point and I believe it is valid. However, IF someone does manage to find the article, prove it, or cite it from a reputable source, then there is no argument that it will be put on the page if someone decided to.

Second, I received a request to remove it from someone who said they are family, and while we cannot prove that, Wikipedia's policy is to give "good faith", and I believe it is genuine after discussing the issue with the poster.

Until that section can be verified, and cited with references, it should (in my opinion) not be part of the article, as it is defamatory. Please feel free to discuss the issue here, but please do not add that section back without having verifiable sources. Thank you! :) Ariel♥Gold 10:09, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Again, please do not re-include UNsourced, defamatory information

Unless you can validate and cite the source of the information, it should remain out of the article, according to WP:NPOV. That section is defamatory, and unsourced, and hours of research were unable to come up with a single reference or item to validate it. User talk:Yenandzen has put the information back into the article, to which I left a note regarding why it was removed on their talk page.

If this continues, it will be taken to the Arbitration committee. Thank you. Ariel♥Gold 06:37, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This article is heading for mediation...

Please refer to the WP:BLP for reasons why undocumented, unproven, unreferenced material that is defamatory should not be included in Wikipedia articles. Please do NOT add the section above to the article unless you can cite sources that prove it is true. Ariel♥Gold 18:09, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


Get a copy of the book and contact the back issues dept of the LA Times. All the original sources are there. This cannot be hidden as defamatory - one's sacking from a job is hardly of that nature. But a story printed in a book and in a newspaper that goes unchallenged by the plaintiff - who could have brought legal action - and didn't, shows that this story has substance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Canderel (talk • contribs)
Since I do not have a stake in this, and my neutral view has been ignored by both sides, so I've requested a third party to review this issue to help. I would ask that you respect any changes they make, and realize this is not a forum for a crusade, but a fact based encyclopedia. Thank you sincerely, Ariel♥Gold 19:02, 26 July 2007 (UTC) :)
Hmm. I was asked to come in and take a look at this as a third opinion. And my opinion is this: The Los Angeles Times is definitely a reliable source, but this seems to have been a minorly notable event in the grand scheme of things. Allegations of harassment were made in Seconds, a minor trade journal. Disney fired Hudson based on the allegations. A book a few years later about "Disney dirt" repeated the allegations. But there doesn't seem to have been much more than that. No lawsuit, no proof, just allegations. As such, it's important that we follow WP:BLP, Wikipedia's policy on being careful with the biographies of living persons. I think it's worth mentioning that he was fired, but since it doesn't seem to have really been covered anywhere else of note besides the L.A. Times article, I don't think it should be a major part of the Wikipedia article. A simple one-paragraph "controversy" section seems plenty. Though if anyone can produce other sources which prove or disprove the allegations, we can definitely expand that section. --Elonka 19:12, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] July 29, 2007

You can go on Amazon.com and look at excerpts from the book and see it in black and white for yourself. Also, you can pay to back order issues of the Los Angeles Times and download the article from the Los Angeles Times for yourself. If the information in those articles are untrue, why didn't Mr. Hudson do anything about it when it came out TWELVE YEARS AGO!! Therefore, the information seems to be valid. Just because his daughter would like to rewrite history so it is convenient for her, doesn't mean she can or should. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yenandzen (talk • contribs)

The information was added to the article, with proper URL references, in a small paragraph (see Elonka's note above) and yet it is still being removed. Users should not remove information that is presented in a neutral voice simply because they wish it were not there. If there are proper, valid sources, and if it is properly cited, the information is public, as is this encyclopedia. I have asked for assistance with this ongoing issue on the WP:BLP board, and it is my hope that someone will step in and deal with this issue, as I don't feel I've gotten anywhere by trying to explain the reasoning to both sides. Initially, the information was uncited (just because someone says "go look it up" doesn't mean that's a citation ;) It needed to be put in proper form with footnotes.) But once the references were added, and the section re-written (again see Elonka's note above), there seems to be no reason to continue removing the information. Please avoid getting into edit wars, as it is not constructive, and hopefully someone who knows the BLP policy better than I will step in and take care of the issue. My apologies to both sides that I was unable to assist in your dispute. Ariel♥Gold 10:09, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aug 12, 2007

Thank you Elonka, and Ariel♥Gold for stepping in and getting this biography written in an informative manner. I have been asked by Mark Hudson to monitor this page for vandalism and will endevour to show neutrality in the way the biography develops. I will be updating from time to time, and since I don't know every aspect of writing in wiki format would be happy if you could help me with formatting links and references etc. Killerheels 18:37, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Myself and several others regularly monitor this page, so any references you need added, or comments, etc., you'd like feedback on prior to their inclusion in the article, feel free to drop them here, and one of us will most definitely get back to you quickly. And thank you for your understanding. Ariel♥Gold 21:22, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 07:17, 10 November 2007 (UTC)