Talk:Marion Davies

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Contents 1 Family connections 2 Image 3 NPOV 4 Greek? 5 Free photos

[edit] Family connections

Marion is the aunt of actor Arthur Lake, who played Dagwood in the Blondie movies. Anybody know which of her sisters was his mother? I seem to have eliminated Reine. -- Zoe

Actually, it seems Arthur Lake was called her nephew, but was in fact her son-in-law. He was married to her (illegitimate) daughter by William Randolph Hearst, who was called Patricia van Cleef or Patricia van Cleeve. The identity of her parents was revealed only after her death - or so it says on the Internet. I'd just like to see it confirmed in print before adding it. -- Someone else 04:45 May 1, 2003 (UTC)

Interesting! -- Zoe

I did find one additional claim, that Patricia was Marion (& Hearst's)'s daughter but was raised by one of Marion's sisters. Unfortunately, it didn't name the sister. Most curious. (Good to see you in full-edit mode!) -- Someone else 05:02 May 1, 2003 (UTC)

Thanks.  :). So, is there anything on Arthur's sister Florence which might shed some light? I keep finding that their parents were acrobats, but no names. -- Zoe

I now see two sites that say Patricia was raised by Marion's sister Rose. If she married a "Van Cleef/Cleve" I think we'll have it nailed down. Florence and Arthur were born with the surname "Silverlake", but I can't find their parent's names. -- Someone else 05:17 May 1, 2003 (UTC)

Debrett Goes to Hollywood (pub. 1986) contains the info that was presumed to be true before Patricia's death: that she was daughter of Rose Davies née Rose Douras (1895-1963) and her first husband George Van Cleeve, and married Arthur Lake in 1937. So I feel confident in adding that in with a note about an announcement to the contrary being made by the family of Patricia after her death. (An amusing connection is also pointed out: Reine Davies's son Charles D. Lederer married Virginia Nicolson in 1940, (her stage name was Anne Stafford), and who had previously been married to Orson Welles! So they were married when Citizen Kane was being made and released (they divorced in 1946). I'll wager they had a few interesting discussions about it<G>). -- Someone else 18:27 May 1, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Image

The image formerly illustrating the article was replaced. The current one is certainly better, but currently has no info on source or copyright status. I've moved the now orphaned old image here to talk. -- Infrogmation 20:58, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The new image is more attractive, but in my opinion it's not a typical likeness- if it wasn't identified I'd never guess it was Davies. The old image is the Marion I'm used to on the screen.--Saxophobia 01:31, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

It's not clear which images you are referring to. The Hamilton King drawing on the page now, while very nice, doesn't much look like her photographs. Surely we can find a freely-available photo somewhere. -Will Beback 20:30, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

Blonde, glamorous, witty and kind, Marion Davies was one of the funniest actresses ever existed. She is likely best remembered for her relationship... edited into Blonde, glamorous, witty and kind, Marion Davies is likely best remembered for her relationship... Didn't have a chance to go through the rest of the article, but that just struck me as incredibly POV. --68.248.200.103 03:57, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes. It is appropriate to mention a subject's disposition, but only if we have a source and even an attribution for it. (e.g. "Mary Pickford called Davies 'kind and witty'.") Calling her "blonde" is not a problem, except that in the picture at right she doesn't look blonde. Due to her Greek heritage it is doubful that she was a natural blonde. "Glamorous" seems redundant for a blonde (?) movie star dating a tycoon. -Willmcw 06:42, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

The article is still fairly POV and makes little mention of criticism of her work. I'm not sure of the best way to rectify this. --Strangerer (Talk) 07:11, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Greek?

Beside the obvious, is there an actual good source that says he's Greek? (and I don't mean IMDB) See part of the talk on List of Greek Americans. JackO'Lantern 06:51, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

The partially-Greek heritage of Miss Davies is fairly well-known. I don't think there's any dispute. -Will Beback 07:14, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, I see you removed text that said "She spoke fluent Greek". Do you think this was false? A publicity claim? -Will Beback 07:18, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

How exactly is it well known if I couldn't confirm it in any good online source, or an in-depth bio of Hearst, or Davies' own book? JackO'Lantern 07:41, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Unless these books have been read from beginning to end we can't know for sure that it doesn't say in there that she was of Irish and Greek descent. Just because it is not found on line it does not mean that the information is false. I also came across this in the WP:V article: "Finding a good source may require some effort: Until more authors publish online, and more material is uploaded, some of the most reliable and informative sources are still available only in printed form. If you can't find a good source on the web, try a local library or bookstore. This can at times be a surprisingly fruitful endeavour."[1] ~Mallaccaos, 13 April 2006

I think this part Greek heritage is well known becase Wikipedia made it well known, frankly. JackO'Lantern 07:41, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Probably not...more likely because there are many Greeks that bear the last name Douras;[2][3][4]. Its Greek spellings are such: Ντούρας[5]; Δούρας[6]. Plus the fact that her sister's birth name, Irene Douras aka Reine Davies, is of Greek origins. Not to mention the Greek refrences Orson Welles keeps making: i.e. "the Jackie and Ari of their day" an Orson Welles quote; The Greek Captain in Citizen Kane; "....as though Kane were talking Greek" Citizen Kane again; the small-scale Greek temple which stands as the Douras Family burial ground in Los Angeles. Whatever, as Will Beback said her origins did not determine her destiny. ~Mallaccaos, 13 April 2006

For the record, Amazon search options do turn up everything in the book that you search for, i.e. every reference to "Greek" or "Irish". Mad Jack O'Lantern 18:52, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

As for speaking Greek - that's something else I couldn't confirm in any of the books or a good source. On the IMDB, Someone submitted "is of Greek heritage and speaks fluent Greek" to basically every person with any possible Greek ancestry, including of course such famous Greeks as Nicolette Sheridan. I'm not saying that her father wasn't of Greek heritage, I'm just saying if he was, I couldn't find anything reliable that says so, although there are plenty of sites that copy the IMDB and Wikipedia that say so. JackO'Lantern 07:39, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

These are the books I looked at, btw. They're searchable online at Amazon. Davis' autobio [7] . Hearst bio [8]. JackO'Lantern 07:41, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Good research. I have to admit that it was interesting to imagine Davies speaking Greek. Thanks for tracking down all of this. -Will Beback 07:49, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I thought you'd be harder to convince. :) Also, according to both books, her father's name was Bernard (I'll change it), not Herbert. Notice the NNDB no doubt copied us and said "Herbert".[9] We are unfortunately responsible for a bit of wide-spread misinformation, out there, minor as it is. JackO'Lantern 07:58, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't care what her ancestry is, so I'm easy to persuade. I don't think the nationality of her grandparents determined her destiny. -Will Beback 08:06, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Free photos

More free photos are available at the LOC image search, if anyone feels inclined to add more. Calliopejen1 07:01, 12 September 2007 (UTC)