Talk:Maria Orsitsch

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This article lacks historical evidence completely. There seems to exist no reliable evidence for the existence of Maria Orsitsch outside the body of conspiracy literature and nazi-ufo-believers.

(1) At the beginning of the article the author states, that Maria Orsitsch was first mentioned and pictured in 1967 by Bergier and Pauwels in their book "Aufbruch ins dritte Jahrtausend: von der Zukunft der phantastischen Vernunft. Besides the circumstance that Pauwels and Bergier are no reliable sources, this claim is also wrong in another respect. I have a german copy of this book and besides of the fact that there are no pictures in it at all, I could also not find any mention of a "Maria Orsitsch".

(2) The second reference mentioned in the article (Goodrick-Clarke, Black Sun) is quoted wrongly: In Black Sun (p. 165), Goodrick-Clarke reports, that two german conspiracy theorists (Norbert Juergen-Ratthofer & Ralf Ettl) claim - among other things - the existence of a person named "Maria Orsitsch" and their involvement in the foundation of the fictitious "Vril-Gesellschaft" (i.e. Vril-Society). However, in the context of the report, it becomes clear that Goodrick-Clarke does not consider Ratthofer & Ettl as being reliable sources.

Actually, I see no possibility to improve the quality of this article. Nevertheless, I think it is better to start a discussion on this topic instead of making an instant proposal for deletion.

Crypto-ffm (talk) 13:01, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I checked Goodrick-Clarke on this; Maria Orsitsch is mentioned very marginally on p.165-66 of Black Sun; it is not mentioned that her existence is alleged anywhere else than in Nazi-Ufo-Conspiracy theories. I don't know if there are any notability criteria for fictional people, and even then she might fail those; on the other hand I have no intention to clean this up. So unless someone brigns up a good source about a real Maria Orsitsch, I will put up an afd for this article (and for the German one, too). Zara1709 (talk) 16:53, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

ack; the german article has been deleted already (that brought me on the track) Crypto-ffm (talk) 17:28, 9 May 2008 (UTC)