Talk:Maria Hertogh riots

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I removed the image showing the riots because if you see History of Singapore and the merger section, it looks more like the Kallangworks riots, (bigger photo), than the Hertogh ones, I do think. Of course, if not, then its one or the other. Hmm. Well insert it back in if you contest it, anyway. -- Natalinasmpf 23:01, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sharp eyes. :-) -- Vsion 18:46, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Malaysia or Malaya

I think, all references to Malaysia should be renamed Malaya. It's a little bit more accurate considering that Malaysia was formed in 1963. __earth 07:58, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

References to Malaysia in this article refers to the archipelago (that is present day) Malaysia. The term "Malaya" conventionally includes Singapore. Thus to differentiate between the archipelago and the island, "Malaysia" is used. That is also the general practice in modern day writings. --Plastictv 14:45, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't know. In our case, it's Malaya as a political entity instead of a geographic body. By 1948, Federation of Malaya was a country, separated from Singapore. And Malaya wasn't Malaysia yet until 1963. And certainly, shouldn't it be called Malayan army instead of Malaysian army. Malayan army and Malaysian army refer to two different entities even though they share a continuous line. People in 1950 didn't even know what Malaysia was. I mean, did Italian senators kill Caesar in 44BC or were it Romans? __earth 16:59, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

I know where you're coming from. However, i do not see a better way to distinguish between Malaysia and Singapore in this article. You changed, for example, "Malaysian nationalists" to "Malayan nationalists". This is inaccurate because the original phrase refers to people from the archipelago Malaysia (or West Malaysia) and not Singapore.

The differences between Singapore and Malaysia are also a very sensitive and complex issue, and i'll not discuss it at length here. i do believe, though, that it is appropriate to refer to the two entities, political or geographical, as Malaysia and Singapore instead of using the ambiguous term "Malaya". --Plastictv 13:51, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

What about "Peninsular Malaya"? -- Natalinasmpf 16:18, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Personally i do not recall having seen this term before. In the two references i cited, one written by an European residing in Singapore at that time and the other by a Malaysian researcher, "Malaysia" was used to refer to what is known today as Peninsular Malaysia. Therefore my conformation to, what i believe would be, the general practice in historical writing. --Plastictv 20:16, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I haven't heard of Peninsular Malaya neither. Milton Osborne, an expert of Southeast Asian history who wrote Southeast Asia: An introductory history seems to be careful about the distinction between Malaya and Malaysia. Moreover, Singapore is considered part of Malaya before 1946 - that's before Singapore was made a crown colony. After 1946, the difference between Malaya, Malaysia and Singapore is clear in historical timeline. When a person talks of Malaya after 1946, to my understanding, it refers to Federation of Malaya only, Singapore not included. Furthermore, the term Malaya is still in use today to describe West Malaysia and that term certainly doesn't consider Singapore as part of Malaya. In the same case, it doesn't include Pattani and other Malay Thai states in the north. But anyway, I've asked Adam Carr for a piece of his mind. He seems to be a historian. So, he should have an authority in the subject. __earth 03:17, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

An expert's opinion would be helpful. :) --Plastictv 01:01, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Religion at end?

The article doesn't really state specifically what religion she followed by the end, it says she began attending Mass with her parents and married a Catholic but I can't find any point where it states unambiguously that she either ceased to be a Muslim or not. --Hydraton31 14:22, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dubious

According to 1964 Race Riots, taken together "the violence killed 36 people and injured another 556.". Even if we don't consider them together the July riots in particular "About 23 people lost their lives and 450 people were injured during the July riots. There was significant damage to property and vehicles.". I don't see then how these riots "with 18 killed, 173 injured and many properties damaged – the worst incident of its kind ever witnessed in Singapore." can be said to be the worst incident of it's kind (and it's not sourced either). Of course, these riots were more about religion then race however they're still comparable incidents IMHO. Nil Einne 19:29, 21 July 2007 (UTC)