Talk:Marek Špilár

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[edit] Move and spelling change

It may be okay to move this, if you can show that that is how he is known in English.

And moved or not, it may well be proper to show the variant spelling with diacritics in the text of the article. What we ought to have, however, is some reason for the change. What we don't have is any citation to any reliable source as to the spelling of his name. Instead, we are being asked to buy a pig in a poke, and accept the original research of some Wikipedia editor as gospel. Gene Nygaard 16:09, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

If you want a source, scroll down here. uefa.com and Slovak websites in general use Špilár, Spilar is used mostly in foreign language sites, but either way, there's no doubt what is correct. And I think you could stop arguing about this and accept that not everything is in the English way. MarkBA t/c/@ 17:57, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Gene, I think consensus is pretty clear - Marek Špilár is correct name. ≈Tulkolahten≈≈talk≈ 08:57, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Look, wise guy. You cannot possibly have any consensus on something that has never been discussed. (BTW, for someone best known under the Japanese spelling of his name, where is that?) Gene Nygaard 17:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Watch your language. There is no need for consensus on something that clear. Maybe ya wanna move other articles about Czech and Slovak people to diacritics-less versions? Your chauvinism is disgusting! - Darwinek 17:11, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
This is ridiculous, Gene. So your name is Džín Nygárd, forget Gene Nygaard. It is the same. Why do you mess Japanesse spelling here ?! ≈Tulkolahten≈≈talk≈ 17:13, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
I still don't see your point. You cited an article using the "Marek Špilár" spelling on my talk page. However, was there any reference to that article when the spelling was changed in the article? Answer: certainly not. Was there any reference to that article when the article was moved? Answer: certainly not. The burden of proof had not only not been met, but nobody had even offered the tiniest scrap of evidence in an effort to meet it. And the article itself remains unsourced.
Then, as I've already pointed out to you, that link is not in English. So could just go to this EuroSport.com link, and tell me exactly what you see there? Answer: Marek Spilar.Or go to The Internet Soccer Database and tell me exactly what you see there. Answer: Marek Spilar. Need more? There are lots of them. As User:MarkBA has already admitted above, he is best known in English under the "Marek Spilar" spelling. Gene Nygaard 17:51, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Gene, do you understand what does the word name mean ? ≈Tulkolahten≈≈talk≈ 17:56, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, because guys creating those websites use your keybord, without foreign characters, that's all, mr. know-it-all. And if you didn't noticed it before, EN Wikipedia is trully international project which allows foreign characters in article titles. Your Middle Ages-like ideas and stance are fascinating, as always. - Darwinek 17:57, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
So, what exactly is it that you do not understand about Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English)? Or Wikipedia:Naming conventions in general. The fact that this is the spelling in the Slovak language is not determinative of the proper name of the article under Wikipedia naming conventions. It is a factor; it does not decide the issue.
In particular, what exactly is it that you do not understand about this Wikipedia guideline?
"If you are talking about a person, country, town, movie or book, use the most commonly used English version of the name for the article,"
Gene Nygaard 18:06, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
No, you don't understand it, twisting the rules. Petr Čech is respected player in England, whole world know him as "Cech", same case with Tomáš Rosický "Rosicky" or Pavel Nedvěd "Nedved". Go and move these articles, please, if you feel you are right and watch like someone else (not me) will move 'em back within 24 hours. - Darwinek 18:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
There are a significant number of articles which have had diacritics removed from their article names after Wikipedia:Requested moves discussions, including Arpad Elo for just one example that comes to me off the top of my head. Thanks for pointing out some of them where a move may be in order. Gene Nygaard 18:15, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Are you serious about what you said ? You are going to move Pavel Nedvěd and Tomáš Rosický ? Go on, this vandalising will be very short. ≈Tulkolahten≈≈talk≈ 18:17, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Note further that while Marek Špilár hasn't played for the English teams and therefore we don't know what he would use in English, it isn't our place as Wikipedia editors to be telling Peter Cech that he is so stupid that he misspells his own name. Gene Nygaard 18:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Improper deletion of spelling variant

The guidelines referenced above also specifically provide:

  • "The body of each article, preferably in its first paragraph, should list all common names by which its subject is known."

Do not keep removing the variants properly included here. Gene Nygaard 18:11, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

He hasn't two names, his name doesn't have any variant. ≈Tulkolahten≈≈talk≈ 18:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Stop being silly. Gene Nygaard 18:15, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Please beware of personal attacks and assume good faith. ≈Tulkolahten≈≈talk≈ 18:18, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
That isn't a personal attack, and good faith is a rebuttable presumption. Gene Nygaard 18:31, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
OK, I see there's heated discussion about the name. I suggest a compromise: Leave Špilár as the article's title, but note that Spilar is used in foreign countries as his name. I don't see any sense warring here because of name. MarkBA t/c/@ 18:46, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
There is a redirect. It's enough I think. ≈Tulkolahten≈≈talk≈ 18:54, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Špilár is more informative

I hope I don't cause more controversy but it does seem to me that Špilár is the more correct and more informative version. Mr. Nygaard points out that because non-czech or slovak teams don't use diacritics on umiforms the world knows the players as Nedved, Rosicky and Cech instead of Nedvěd, Rosický and Čech. My first thought is that only Čech has the "critical" diacritic that has a very distinguishable pronunciation difference for English speakers. It is pronounced "Czech" not cech. Similarly Špilár differs from Spilar. Špilár, pronounced shpee-LAR, sounds like it derives from the German word for player and that information is lost when the Spilar spelling is employed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.168.222.5 (talk) 01:45, 7 March 2007 (UTC).