Talk:Marcario Garcia

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[edit] Spelling of name and date of birth

Some variation:

  1. The U.S. Army version of the citation says "Marcario Garcia" Born: 20 January 1920, Villa de Castano, Mexico
  2. The HomeofHeroes.com citation says "Macario Garcia" Born: 20 January 1920, Villa de Castano, Mexico.
  3. The Houston National Cemetery notable persons list http://www.cem.va.gov/CEM/cems/nchp/houston.asp#np includes "Staff Sergeant Marcario Garcia, (World War II), U.S. Army, Company B, 22nd Infantry, 4th Infantry Division. Grosshau, Germany, Nov. 27, 1944 (Section H-A 1)."
  4. The interment.net listing for Houston National Cemetery[1] has "Garcia, Macario, b. 01/02/1920, d. 12/24/1972, US Army, S SGT, Res: Houston, TX, Plot: H-A 0 1, bur. 12/27/1972" [note not only spelling but dob)
  5. The Social Security Death Index has:[2] "MACARIO GARCIA 02 Jan 1920 Dec 1972 (not specified) (none specified) 454-18-5207 Texas"
  6. The Texas Death Index has:[3] "Garcia Macario 12-24-1972 FORT BEND M SINGLE"

I think the 2 January 1920 birth date is probably correct (the Social Security index and the Texas index are independent databases), unless there was a typo on death certificate. Both spellings should be listed in article. It might be in the form "X Garcia", sometimes written as "Y Garcia". Gene Nygaard 14:16, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Gene Rootsweb is notorious for typos and mispellings. I wouldn't go by that. The VA is the one to include. I'd revert on that source. [Marky48]

This isn't RootsWeb-created. It won't be any different in any other version of the SSDI, such as the New England Historic Genealogical Society version at http://www.newenglandancestors.org/research/database/ss/default.asp?srch=srch, which has the same Macario and the same 2 January 1920 date:
  • Macario GARCIA 454-18-5207 2 Jan 1920 Dec 1972 TX
The basic SSDI database is distributed by the government in electronic form. There may be diffrences in the expansion of zip codes to place names and in decoding the place/time of issuance of SSAN, but not in the names or dates.
And it also isn't just the death information in the US and Texas indexes. It is also the interment.net cemetery records, and the HomeofHeroes.com version of the citation.
Also, Find A Grave has at least two listings for this person.[4] and each includes a different picture of the tombstone with the "Macario" spelling and the "Jan 2 1920" date. One also includes additional text about Medal of Honor, but doesn't cite any source for that information.
However, lots of tombstones have the wrong dates, too, and the inclusion of one spelling on a tombstone does not show that the other wasn't used as well. Gene Nygaard 19:04, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
And actually, it is three different photographs of tombstone, since one listing has two of them, plus a picture of Ike presenting medal. Gene Nygaard 19:10, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm not going to get into a big pickle here over one letter, but NEGS isn't availble from that link. I do genealogy work and errors are common. The military is meticulous about such things. I'd go with them. Marky48 01:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
It's at that link if you click "New Search". Try this one http://www.newenglandancestors.org/research/database/ss/default.asp
Furthermore, the tombstone shows quite clearly that somebody close to him had both a different spelling and a different date from what the military citation has. Put that on top of two independent death indexes, and it is quite clear that both the "Macario" spelling and the "2 Jan" date are correct; the "Marcario" spelling, of course, may also be correct, but the "20 January" date is most likely incorrect. Someone can spell his name two different ways, but he can't be born on two different dates. Gene Nygaard 04:37, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I'd include both spellings and change the birthdate, although one would need the original document to know for sure if it was 2, 20.Marky48 16:40, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

  • I've been following the comments on this page very closely. I suggest the following. To avoid a possible revert war from other parties, I believe that we should place the official information as it appears on the MoH citation and then make a notation in the "notes section" in regard to the two variations of the name spelling and date of birth. How does that sound? Cheers Tony the Marine 17:33, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
The two versions of the citation we have themselves differ in the spelling of the name. Either of them could have miscopied it; the citation itself wasn't created in electronic form (most likely not even an electric typewriter), and it could be misspelled there, it could be miscopied from a carbon copy (are you familiar with that technology?) or other copy by one of the online sites, or the subject could have used two different spellings of his name. Gene Nygaard 17:43, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I just made a suggestion, as creator of the article. I am familiar with what is referred to as a carbon copy, I don't think that with my educational background I would be such a moron as to not know about the use of carbon copies. Just do what is right, that's all. Tony the Marine 18:12, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I didn't intend to impugn your education; it is a time factor. Many Wikipedia editors may not be familiar with carbon copies, nor with a typewriter (especially a manual one), because of their age. And I was just pointing out a problem with your suggestion that you may have overlooked, that the two versions of the citation differed in name. Now that we know that you are aware of that, what is your suggestion? Gene Nygaard 19:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Gene, you did the right thing when you changed the name from Maccrio to Marcario in the article. I believe that the proper name was Marcario and I came to this conclusion because of the following factors:

As you stated the Army version has him as Marcario: [Army version http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/mohiia2.htm] and the Houston National Cemetery also has him registered as Marcario:[5]

On October 6, 2004, Senator John Ensign referred to him as Marcario Garcia in a speech.[6]

When User:166.195.116.182, edited the article and changed the name to Macario, he was based on his observations 15 years ago as stated in his website: [7]. However, when I researhed the name of the street in Houston everything pointed out to a S/Sgt Marcario Garcia St. as you can observe here: [8].

Therefore, I've come to the conclusion that the Army, National Cemetery, Senator and the city of Houston cannot all be wrong. I will move the page back to Marcario Garcia and create a Macario redirect. Tony the Marine 00:51, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Now, hold on a minute. That national cemetery which lists him as "Marcario" on their web page is the very same one which has the tombstone, of which we have three separate and distinct pictures on Find A Grave, on which his name is spelled "Macario". All of those pictures are quite easily readable. I'd say the tombstone picture is a whole lot more relevant than a street sign. Do we even know for certain that the street was named for the person in this article? How do we know that? And the Texas and U.S. Social Security death indexes are more reliable than one certificate, and some Senator's speech long after the guy was dead which could well be based on the information on the Army website.
Furthermore, your Google search about an avenue doesn't show anything. A Google search for the exact phrase "Marcario Garcia Avenue" returns exactly zero hits, just as a search for the exact phrase "Macario Garcia Avenue" returns exactly zero hits. And while your non-exact phrase, but rather just all the words, search for those three words receives 220 hits with the Marcario spelling, changing it to "Macario" plus the two other words results in 38,200 hits, about a 175 to 1 ratio in favor of Macario (but not a reliable measure of anything, really). Gene Nygaard 12:55, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
And, unlike the tombstones, it doesn't appear that we have a picture of any street sign, or any map on which the street is named. Gene Nygaard 13:02, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Furthermore, while a Google search for the exact phrase "Marcario Garcia Street" gets no hits, a search for "Macario Garcia Street" gets one hit, the agenda (in a .doc file) for a Harris County Commission meeting in which a building being renamed has the street address of "1001 Staff Sgt. Macario Garcia Street". http://www.co.harris.tx.us/agenda/2003/0309ag.doc Gene Nygaard 13:15, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
"Marcario Garcia St" 1 hit, a real estate listing. Gene Nygaard 13:17, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

"as creator of the article" Ahem, I created the original article since I have done so with other 4th ID related articles. My dad was a medic and served maybe even treated Garcia. He has a Silver Star from the Huertgen battles as well. As I recall the name was changed to Macario from Marcario. I had always seen the latter, yet Gene here has found a genealogical conundrum. I still favor the military citation. And yes I know what a carbon is as I'm also over 50 like Tony. Never assume something that can be checked. Google searches all reveal "Marcario" is linked with this person. This is the proper reference in this context. Marky48 15:16, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Marky, you did not create the article. What you did was paste an article written by Dr. Lopez of the University of Austin, which was deleted because it was in violation of copyright laws [9]. However, that isn't the issue here. We agree that the most common reference to the subject is Marcario. Anyway, I've added my two cents worth and will no longer debate on this issue. Cheers! Tony the Marine 17:55, 9 December 2006 (UTC)


No. We don't agree on that. Gene Nygaard 19:47, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Well Tony see it as you will, but if that's true mirrors are allowed here. It was a stub, and I reworked it for this purpose with intent of going back to add more however you beat me to it. I agree on this particular name point though.Marky48 14:01, 11 December 2006 (UTC)