Talk:Maquinna
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Placed this in Native American leaders category because I didn't know where else to put it, i.e. the term "Native American" is US-specific but there are no other equivalent categories. I'll put a comment in the TALK page on Native American about this; to see if there's another name that could be usedSkookum1 21:36, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
I think that there are conflicting accounts surrounding the death of Callicum. According to sources I've seen, Callicum was shot by a spanish guard, which then created a lot of tension between the Mowachaht and the Spanish. Many online sources also say the same. Caaqayuush 10:42, 19 July 2006
- I thought it had something to do with Wickaninnish and Maquinna's raid on him was the revenge; or I guess that was something else; is your name Nuu-chah-nulth? If so any chance you might pen up Callicum and Wickaninnish?Skookum1 (talk) 06:23, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
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- I just read a little about this -- apparently it was Esteban José Martínez who grabbed a musket and fired at Callicum -- but it misfired, so a Spanish sailor grabbed another musket, fired, and killed Callicum. That Martínez really knew how to screw things up. Pfly (talk) 04:50, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
- There's a very precise Mexican epithet for that kind of behaviour, but this being a potentially multilingual family environment I won't go there...not that Mexikids don't hear it all day long, like so many potential English expressions...OK, so it's been a while since I read any Nuu-chah-nulth history, most I got from the better-quality BC historical journalistic writers plus scans over Jewitt and other such material. And so I've gotten fuzzy on the details, but there's some kind of family feud - I thought it was the killing of a brother - that prompted the punitive war against Wickaninnish by Maquinna, which I guess it was in Jewitt; when Wickaninnish got offed. Thought it was Callicum. But re the Spanish/Mexicans, there were on the whole a pretty professional bunch, as with most Royal Navy in those parts (if not the private/pirate-sector captains). I've pondered a Callicum article as a "must have" for a while but never equipped to write it; I stubbed Wickaninnish but it/he could use more detail also if you've got any. All these lives of that time, it's such a small group, all their stories are intertwined, like with the HBC on Vancouver's Isle before the Gold Colony was spawned ... but as we've seen in steamboat land it's all connected in those less-populated times, no?; In the days of Nootka Sound and the warring kingdoms of The People (the meaning of their old name, Aht), they're all notable, anyone named, partly because traces of written history in these parts are so few and so limited in area; I suppose the John R. Jewitt article is probably doin' well, y'ad think, huh? Or you'd hope so. Nookomis etc; but the Spanish cast in the play of the times is interesting, their motives so different from the Brits, and from the traders; it would make great script if someone wanted to boil it down....actually someone tried to boil Jewitt down to an aboriginal-made indie but the intertribal politics got a little, uh, complicated and this isn't hte place to talk about that; but a properly-made big-budget spectacle flick is certainly in the flavour of the material, tall ships, wild outfits, international intrigue, wildlife, blood and cannon, treachery, all the good stuff; Maquinna here we should target for FA some day - but as with certain other materials the aboriginal input's really important; maybe OMR has a Nuu-chah-nulth person out there; a lot of your Spanish bios are already looking in that direction; I wish I had as much writing discpline and, well, structure......and again, I'm looking forward to, 5-10 years down the line, new publications and analyses of the imperial navy materails recently unsealed in Madrid; likewise the Russian archives, same situation, recently opened up and only now beginning to be studied; early Northwest History could get, if not seriously revised, seriously augmented with new materials....btw you know about the Bancroft Collection, right? I mean in the sense that it contains a lot of material on BC by way of being collected from Americans who were or had been in BC; there's a preface either to Marshall's UBC thesis (which you should read; see refs on the Fraser Canyon Gold Rush page but you'll have to get it by interlibrary loan probably, unless U.W. has a copy) or DJ Hauka's book also listed there, which alludes to the situation that details on early BC in those materials, which are primarily studied for their content on the American West/Northwest/wherever, are passed over, misunderstood or unindexed etc, while Canadian historians focus their attention on "the Canadian experience" and do the black hat thing on the American presence here (unfairly); as more than one In an extended comment on whatever was in the book/thesis, someone who knew teh author/research summed it up that there's a "blank spot" from teh central Canadian perspective, which sees history as growing from east to west; here it came up out of the south, and off the sea, and down out of the north. West is teh last place it came from (different for BC than the former Oregon Territory - we had no Oregon Trail). So what's in Bancroft may have reams of stuff yet on various small BC localities; I just don't have time to study the catalogue and the index; and I always find stuff in used bookstores that's just way too intriguing, but I donl't have the $250, or the time.....Skookum1 (talk) 05:40, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
- I don't think I've heard of the Bancroft Collection. I agree that it will be interesting to see what happens as more Spanish (and Russian) archives get dug through, researched, translated, etc. I've been reading, and writing, a lot about the Spanish in the Pacific Northwest not so much because I have some old interest in Spain or Spanish exploration, but more because I have a weakness for the overdog, the overlooked and forgotten, etc. This is probably also why I have an interest in Indian history as well, although there are a few supposed Cherokee ancestors in the family. I have a fairly decent grasp of southeast US Indian history as a result -- my Pacific Northwest native history grasp is pretty weak, but slowly improving. Oh and yea, the Spanish in the PNW were mostly quite ... professional? Martínez was an exception. Salvador Fidalgo wasn't the greatest either, in terms of relations with the natives. Pfly (talk) 06:18, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
- There's a very precise Mexican epithet for that kind of behaviour, but this being a potentially multilingual family environment I won't go there...not that Mexikids don't hear it all day long, like so many potential English expressions...OK, so it's been a while since I read any Nuu-chah-nulth history, most I got from the better-quality BC historical journalistic writers plus scans over Jewitt and other such material. And so I've gotten fuzzy on the details, but there's some kind of family feud - I thought it was the killing of a brother - that prompted the punitive war against Wickaninnish by Maquinna, which I guess it was in Jewitt; when Wickaninnish got offed. Thought it was Callicum. But re the Spanish/Mexicans, there were on the whole a pretty professional bunch, as with most Royal Navy in those parts (if not the private/pirate-sector captains). I've pondered a Callicum article as a "must have" for a while but never equipped to write it; I stubbed Wickaninnish but it/he could use more detail also if you've got any. All these lives of that time, it's such a small group, all their stories are intertwined, like with the HBC on Vancouver's Isle before the Gold Colony was spawned ... but as we've seen in steamboat land it's all connected in those less-populated times, no?; In the days of Nootka Sound and the warring kingdoms of The People (the meaning of their old name, Aht), they're all notable, anyone named, partly because traces of written history in these parts are so few and so limited in area; I suppose the John R. Jewitt article is probably doin' well, y'ad think, huh? Or you'd hope so. Nookomis etc; but the Spanish cast in the play of the times is interesting, their motives so different from the Brits, and from the traders; it would make great script if someone wanted to boil it down....actually someone tried to boil Jewitt down to an aboriginal-made indie but the intertribal politics got a little, uh, complicated and this isn't hte place to talk about that; but a properly-made big-budget spectacle flick is certainly in the flavour of the material, tall ships, wild outfits, international intrigue, wildlife, blood and cannon, treachery, all the good stuff; Maquinna here we should target for FA some day - but as with certain other materials the aboriginal input's really important; maybe OMR has a Nuu-chah-nulth person out there; a lot of your Spanish bios are already looking in that direction; I wish I had as much writing discpline and, well, structure......and again, I'm looking forward to, 5-10 years down the line, new publications and analyses of the imperial navy materails recently unsealed in Madrid; likewise the Russian archives, same situation, recently opened up and only now beginning to be studied; early Northwest History could get, if not seriously revised, seriously augmented with new materials....btw you know about the Bancroft Collection, right? I mean in the sense that it contains a lot of material on BC by way of being collected from Americans who were or had been in BC; there's a preface either to Marshall's UBC thesis (which you should read; see refs on the Fraser Canyon Gold Rush page but you'll have to get it by interlibrary loan probably, unless U.W. has a copy) or DJ Hauka's book also listed there, which alludes to the situation that details on early BC in those materials, which are primarily studied for their content on the American West/Northwest/wherever, are passed over, misunderstood or unindexed etc, while Canadian historians focus their attention on "the Canadian experience" and do the black hat thing on the American presence here (unfairly); as more than one In an extended comment on whatever was in the book/thesis, someone who knew teh author/research summed it up that there's a "blank spot" from teh central Canadian perspective, which sees history as growing from east to west; here it came up out of the south, and off the sea, and down out of the north. West is teh last place it came from (different for BC than the former Oregon Territory - we had no Oregon Trail). So what's in Bancroft may have reams of stuff yet on various small BC localities; I just don't have time to study the catalogue and the index; and I always find stuff in used bookstores that's just way too intriguing, but I donl't have the $250, or the time.....Skookum1 (talk) 05:40, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
- I just read a little about this -- apparently it was Esteban José Martínez who grabbed a musket and fired at Callicum -- but it misfired, so a Spanish sailor grabbed another musket, fired, and killed Callicum. That Martínez really knew how to screw things up. Pfly (talk) 04:50, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
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