Talk:Manjusri
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[edit] Genders
I'm rather surprised that Manjusri was listed as female in the older version of this article, as I've never come across such a thing before. Where exactly did that information come from? As far as tradition goes, Saraswati/Benzaiten is often seen as his shakti, but I doubt anyone gets them any more confused than Krishna and Radha, or another such pairing. I've removed the information for now as it's misleading in my opinion, but if there is precedent for including it beyond mere speculation (or obscure sect beliefs), I'd like to see it. Hidoshi 10:58, September 6, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Saraswati
I thought she was Brahma's shakti/consort. Does that mean that Manjusri is in some sense considered to be an aspect of Brahma? Luis Dantas 16:16, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
- I don't think that's the implication here. It may be a change of traditions as Buddhism moved into Japan, but also just a reconsideration. Often the Dhyani Buddhas such as Amitabha transform into Shaktis as well and are seen as the companions of other deities.
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- What's the source for saying that Manjusri has a consort at all? It sounds a bit odd to me to say that a bodhisattva has a consort ... unless we're talking about Tantric Buddhism, in which case that should be specified.
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- I've seen quite a few images in the Lamaistic Pantheon, amongst other books, which have Manjusri with a consort, Tantric or otherwise. I cannot confirm if it's Saraswati, but the editor of this article before me (or an earlier one) listed the information as such, and I did not find anything converse to the statement, so I left it in. As to the Prajnaparamita, I've never seen it listed as anything but 'The Prajnaparamita'. It may in fact be the Heart Sutra (since it's the most common sutra), or may refer to the scripture as symbolising any book within the scope of the Prajnaparamita. -- Hidoshi 04:22, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
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- Mm, well do as you see fit. I come from a Vajrayana background myself, but I have been to Chinese temples where they have Manjusri with a consort. I never did check to see if it was Saraswati. It's funny though, 'cause I meditate upon the latter, but not the former. If you think it should be edited, I've no qualms. -- Hidoshi 16:05, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
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Yes, it's Tantric Buddhism. Her name in Tibetan is Yang Chen Ma, an aspect of White Tara, she plays the vina, has white skin and is associated with the full moon. If you want to wander into the Hindu connection, Manjushri has more in common with Vishnu than Brahma. Vaishnavites hold the Wisdom aspect of Hinduism just like Manjushri is the Wisdom Bodhisattva. Krshnayamari is one of the more wrathful names of Manjushri, which obviously shows a Krishna/Vishnu connection.
"Dzong-ka-ba continued, 'In general whether you take Raktayamari, Krshnayamari, or Bhairava as your tutelary deity, Manjushri looks after you since these three are increasing degrees of ferocity of Manjushri..."
(Kalachakra Tantra by the Fourteenth Dalai Lama, Wisdom Publications 1999 pp 143-144)
In Shakyamuni's Praises to Arya Tara
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- Homage! she whose face combines a
- Hundred autumn moons at fullest!
- Blazing with light rays resplendent
- As a thousand star collection!
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- namah śata-saraccandra
- saṃpūprna patalānane
- tārā sahasra nikara
- prahasatkiraṇojjvale
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(English translation from FPMT's Praises to the 21 Taras; Sanskrit transliteration from Chögyal Namkye Norbu, traditional prayer, second verse)
On another note, in Hinduism, Saraswati is the consort of both Brahma and Vishnu.
I believe to the contemporaries of 1000 years ago, the connection between Hinduism and Buddhism was obvious, and many or most deities have their equivalents in either system. The difference is that in Buddhism, they are not worshipped but seen as aspects we can all achieve.
By the way, "Lamaism" is an outdated term. His Holiness the Dalai Lama has spoken out against this term many times. The kings and scholars of Ancient Tibet worked very hard to receive the complete Buddhist tradition from the respected teachers of Nalanda University in India. It is more correct to refer to Tibetan Buddhism as the Sanskrit tradition, or Vajrayana.
link [http://www.khandro.net/deities_female_Saraswati.htm ]
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.215.203 (talk) 05:46, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Manjushri Buddha
In Tibetan Buddhism, and especially in the image that is put up, Manjushri is considered a Buddha, so I changed the title.rudy 21:27, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
- This should be stated in the article then, with a reference for your claim. I've changed the picture caption to simply "Manjusri" for time being, and removed the misleading Wenshu Pusa bit as that's Chinese, not Tibetan. Jpatokal 07:04, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
- Manjushri is only considered a Buddha in Tibeten Buddhism, and mostly in certain sects. It is not representative of Buddhism as whole. In the only Vajrayana tradition, Shingon Buddhism, he is a Bodhisattva. Thus, we should keep the title as just the name. (thank you Jpatokal) Ph0kin (talk) 20:59, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
- In Tibetan Buddhism, he is considered to be one of the Great Bodhisattvas along with Avalokiteshvara and Vajrapani, and also a Buddha, so it is no problem at all to call him a Bodhisattva. In the open teachings, or Sutrayana, he is considered to be a Bodhisattva; in the Tantrayana, he is a Buddha. If you want to be really cool, you can call him a Bodhisattva and secretly see him as a Buddha, as Tantra is given more power if you keep your practice secret. Peace-Clodya —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.215.203 (talk) 05:53, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Article Needs Some Work
I can see why this got flagged. Someone came in and threw in a bunch of Vajrayana terminology without carefully trying to integrate it into the rest of the text, or try to preset a more general overviews. I did some revising, moved things around, cleaned up some over technical senteces, etc. I also included elements from Shingon Buddhism, the other Vajrayana sect (which also reveres Manjushri), to help balance things out. It could still use more work though. Ph0kin (talk) 21:13, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Chinese characters
The full name "Manjusri" is correctly rendered 文殊師利 (Wénshūshili) in Chinese characters. The zh article is at 文殊菩薩 Wénshū Púsà, or "Manju Boddhisattva", but boddhisattva is an honorific title and not a part of his actual name. Jpatokal (talk) 15:07, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
