Talk:Mangalorean Catholics

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mangalorean Catholics article.
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Good article Mangalorean Catholics was a nominee for Philosophy and religion good article, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

A request has been made for this article to be copyedited by the League of Copyeditors. The progress of its reviewers is recorded below. The League is always in need of editors with a good grasp of English to review articles. Visit the Project page if you are interested in helping.
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[edit] Konkani Wikipedia

Dear Konknni friends,

Konkani Wikipedia has been started and been in test stage since August 2006.

Kindly contribute towards the Konkani wikipedia. We intend to make it a multiscript

Wikipeida. At least tri-script with Roman ,Devanangiri and Kannada scripts since these are the most popular ones.

We would like to get more articles/templates in place. We also need volunteers to do the thankless and boring job of transliterating it to different scripts .

As of now only two members are making active contributions. The more the merrier. Your contribution is vital to its success.

The url is given below:

http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Konkani_Wikipedia

Dev boro dees deum! -Deepak D'Souza 05:41, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please contribute

All Mangalorean Catholics, please contribute towards this page. I really don't know whether my text meets encyclopedic standards or no. Neither do I know whether the references meet the standards. Whwtever I am doing is just to expand the page. Please improve the page. Since there is no discussion, I don't know what is right and what is wrong.
Kensplanet (talk) 14:05, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Good Work Ken. This page reall needed some work and you have done a good job. A suggestion: why not remove the surnames part. I feel it is really unnecessary as it includes a broad range of Lusitanic surnames and does not add anything of value . Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 10:14, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
OK, I have removed it.----Kensplanet (talk) 11:43, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Please Refer

I suggest editors to refer to the below mentioned articles since they all are featured articles. We should try to emulate these articles on People.

Our Article should be somewhere near these articles...............Kensplanet (talk) 11:48, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Well , we disagree on a lot of points, so let me list out each item and my points so you can ad your comments there:

[1] The articles you have pointed to are good but the situaltions arent the same. For instance :

  1. Do we have exact figures for the population of Mangalorean Catholics in each country? The actual numbers are miniscule. The total number of Indians in USA is less than 1 %. forget counting Magaloreans.
So what do U recommend. Can U show me the template here on the talk page.====Kensplanet (talk) 08:24, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
  1. Mangaloreans have migrated to practically every country that has a better GDP than India(and I am sure there are plenty of them!). Cna we list them all? There are a few in Karachi too!
  2. Unlike Tamil people who have been present in Singapore, Malaysia etc for centuries and have become part and parcel of the local life and culture, in most places Manglaoreans are at most 2nd generation migrants. Their numbers and concentrations do not have a significant impact on the regions outside the west coast of India.
  3. Lastly as far as POV is concerned mentioning India would give the cursory reader the impression that they are spread all over India. And how many non_mangaloreans or non-Konkanis would read this article anyway. If someone is intersted they will take the trouble to find out what Canara is. Most foreigners dont know where Mumbai is!! Forget that most Americans cannot point out where Iraq is on a blank map! Like we say in the IT industry: You can make a program bug-free but you can't make it idiot proof :-) --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 05:09, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[2] The article Roman Catholicism in Managlore has to be seperated from this article. They aren't meant to be the same. --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 05:12, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Completely Agree....
Roman Catholicism in Mangalore and Mangalorean Catholics are totally different.====Kensplanet (talk) 07:46, 19 February 2008 (UTC)


[3] & [4] While the surnames section was removed for good, I feel the localized names is good. The notable peoples sectionshould stay. It is present in most articles about communities. However it needs to be reviewed from time to time to weed out non-notable entires. Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 05:16, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

OK I am adding both. But however please do not allow it to have subsections,------Kensplanet (talk) 08:13, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[5] & [6] Three notable sies mention Kasargod as a part of Mangalore diocese. No differnetiation is made between Kasargod taluka and district. the article clearly states Konkani speaking catholics and not others(including Tulu Protestants in M'lore). If someone makes assumptions, it is not our problem. --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 05:20, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I completely agree the entire Kasargod district comes under the Mangalore Diocese. But the problem is whether can we call the Catholics of Kasargod as Mangalorean Catholics. There is no mention anywhere that Catholics under the Mangalore Diocese are Mangalorean Catholics. If we include all the Catholics of Kasargod, then we are including even the Malyalee Catholics of Kasargod. Kerala has a huge (arounfd 20%) Xtians. Protestants are not our concern................Kensplanet (talk) 08:02, 19 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Suggested new intro paragraph

Friends, since this page seems to be the work of a small group of dedicated people, I hesitate to come in and make significant edits. But the opening paragraph, I feel, needs work. The editorial tone is not neutral enough, and I'm not certain that the facts are flowing in a logical order.

Here's a draft of a new introductory paragraph -- still needs work, but I believe that this kind of tone is what's appropriate.


Mangalorean Catholics (Konkani: Kodialche Katholik) are Catholics from the Mangalore Region of India which consists of the present South Canara and Udupi districts. They are Konkani people belonging to the Konkani ethnicity; their mother tongue is Konkani. They are the descendants of Goan Catholics who fled Goa during the Portuguese-Maratha Wars and the Goa Inquisition. The history and existence of Mangalorean Catholics in Mangalore dates back to the 15th century. Today, a large Mangalorean Catholic diaspora is scattered across the globe, with emigrant communities in Arab Gulf nations and Anglosphere still closely tied to Mangalore culturally and traditionally.


Hope this helps. God bless.

--Athansor (talk) 23:50, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Agree Words like "bastions" etc dont sound encyclopeadic.--Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 06:07, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Done. The Lead In has been modified. Thank you for your suggestions.Kensplanet (talk) 08:39, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

I can see that a lot of work has been put into this article, but I'm afraid that I'm not going to be able to list it as a GA. Having assessed the article against the good article criteria there are three problems I think:

  • There are many unreferenced sections. The Origins subsection, for instance, is completely unreferenced. As a rule of thumb I would expect to see at least one citation per paragraph.
  • Weasel and peacock words:
  • "This migration is suppposed to be one of the major contributions for the Mangalorean Catholic community." Who says so? "A recent cultural event held by them had entered the Guinness Book of World Records by creating an astounded continuous singing record for 40 hours." Who's astounded?
  • "During the 15th century, the Portuguese were not successful in establishig their presence in Mangalore due to the ardous resistance from the valiant Vijayanagara ruler Krishnadevraya and the dauntless Bednore Queen of Mangalore Abbakka Rani of Ullal." I'm not sure what arduous resistance is anyway.
  • "Some experts had estimated that approximately 30% have moved to other parts of India." Who are these experts?
  • "Some experts have estimated that the remaining 20% of the population have left India for greener pastures abroad." Again, who are these experts?
  • "It is estimated that there are over 300 Mangalorean Catholic families in Sydney with quite a number of second-generation families." Estimated by who?
  • The text needs a thorough copyedit:
  • "Culturally, due to the forced imposition of the Western culture. Politically, due to the military attacks by the Sultans of Bijapur and the Maratha warriors." Sentences have to include a verb.
  • "Gradually these Christians learnt the local languages of Mangalore, but retained Konkani as their mother tongue, they built churches, organized parishes, started industries and warehouses in Mangalore to promote socio-economic and cultural development in their own way." Run-on sentences.
  • "The consternation of the Maratha Empire was a major cause of the migration of the Goan Catholics towards Mangalore." How does consternation cause migration?
  • "Combining Mangalore which is in India, approximately 80% of the Mangalorean Catholics live in India." I don't understand what this is trying to say.
  • "The St. Lawrence Shrine which is located here, has a rich history of miracules with its origin tracing back to 1759 A.D". Is that meant to be miracles?
  • "The Fried Fish of the Mangalorean Catholics is a gourmets all time favourite." Reads like a travel brochure.
  • "Tipu committed several excess on the Christians ...". Several has to be followed by a plural, for example excesses.

This list is not exhaustive, I have just tried to give an idea of the sorts of issues that need to be addressed before a successful GA nomination. I would suggest listing this article for a peer review, and/or asking a member of the League of Copyeditors to go through it before nominating it again. If you disagree with my decision not to list this article, then please feel free to request further opinions at WP:GAR. Good luck, and I hope to see this article back at GAN very soon. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 15:52, 24 March 2008 (UTC)