Talk:Mangalore/Archive1

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[edit] Population figures

Can somebody check the population figure and update it? thanks!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.241.1.4 (talk) 07:14, 23:28, 4 February 2005 (UTC).

[edit] City Infobox

I have applied the infobox:india_city to the statistics about the city, Most of the figures were obtained from the city data for Managalore from the census india website. Please feel free to update, modify the figures when more accurate figures are available. --IMpbt 15:08, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Changes to Infobox

I am removing nearest airport, literacy and official website. I am adding vehicular plate number - If any one has any comments on these, please let me know at my user page or on the Mysore talk page. --IMpbt 00:30, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Fixed Problem with Infobox, district name and Long/lattitude, added link to N.M.A.M.I.T added native spelling for Mangalore--M31July 28,2005

[edit] excellent work

Please add some good pictures to this page and make it look even better.

Dinesh Kannambadi—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.42.208.182 (talk) 20:24, 12 June 2006 (UTC).

[edit] appalling

It's been about 6 months now since I completely overhauled this article once over due to blatent infringements of WP:NPOV, and it's been a few months since I last checked the quality of the article. I cannot believe how much rubbish has found its way in without being reverted - pretty much every sentence after the opening section has some sort of POV being pushed about how great Mangalore is, or how much so and so will make Mangalore a great city or something along these lines. What is worse is near the end of the article - several sections that are just lists of places - their inclusion violates WP:NPOV, WP:CITE, WP:NOR and WP:MoS. I've scrapped as much as I can be bothered to do now, but there is tonnes still left to be done. It's in a very poor state, and I have a discerning feeling it might be in need of yet another complete overhaul. DJR (T) 17:11, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

  • I agree with DJR, from time to time someone comes and randomly dumps some info in the article. It will be filled typos, no spaces between words sometimes. It is like someone coming and shi**ing all over the place. Please take care while making your edits. DJR I have made some significant overhauling in the industry section. Let me know if it is okay. Will do somemore when I get the time--PremKudvaTalk 06:22, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Userbox

For those interested, here is a userbox to set up for placement on your userpage.

This user is a Manglorean.


--PremKudvaTalk 05:07, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


Wonderful -) -Deepak D'Souza 07:22, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Konkani Wikipedia

Dear Konknni friends,

Konkani Wikipedia has been started and been in test stage since August 2006.

Kindly contribute towards the Konkani wikipedia. We intend to make it a multiscript

Wikipeida. At least tri-script with Roman ,Devanangiri and Kannada scripts since these are the most popular ones.

We would like to get more articles/templates in place. We also need volunteers to do the thankless and boring job of transliterating it to different scripts .

As of now only two members are making active contributions. The more the merrier. Your contribution is vital to its success.

The url is given below:

http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Konkani_Wikipedia

Dev boro dees deum! -Deepak D'Souza 07:24, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures

Why such beautiful pictures are all dumped at one place giving a dry look to the article? I'm aligning images in different sections of the article. Gnanapiti 23:12, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

  • It does look very good now. Good job.--PremKudvaTalk 03:58, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Repeated Mention of British for leaving tracks uncompleted

Had British ruled longer they would have completed the railway link to Bombay. But why it is required to mention three times in the article that it was an unfinished job of British. The Konkan Railway is an engineering marvel, proundly completed by Indians. So, advising owners/contributer to change that mention.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Piyushj23 (talk) 03:01, 10 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Konkani name for Mangalore

I don't see why there should be a problem putting Kodial as written in Konkani in the Devanagiri script. it may not be used much in Karnataka but it is the oficial script.

Gnanapiti's statement that Kannada is the official script for Konkani in Karnataka is incorrect. That was the request made by Karnataka Konkani Sahitya Akademi, but it has yet to be made law. Althoug Kannada script is populary used in Karnataka from a long time,it is not yet official.

Yessrao was right in putting both versions, Kannada script and Devanagari script for Konkani. So please revert the changes.

--Deepak D'Souza 06:37, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

If Kannada script is not official, neither is Devanagari. Kannada script however, is the script used for writing Konkani. So there really is no question of adding devanagari here. Sarvagnya 07:55, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
I really don't understand why Kannada Wikipedians take umbrage at every single thing and insist on having their way with everything. User:KNM did the same when I changed the name of Konkani to reflect its popular usage among Konkanis in Karnataka. We Konkanis don't have a problem with multiple scripts, so why should you? What do you mean by the statement If Kannada script is not official, neither is Devanagari.? That decision will be taken bu the politicians and leave them at that. At Wikipedia the spirit is to be accomodative. And Konkani has only survived a perillious history because it has been written in various scripts. I agree with Yessrao that in case of the Konkani name for Mangalore it is best to put both scripts.
--Deepak D'Souza 12:17, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
I regret that you see it that way. In my previous post, I was only reacting to your argument that - "...it may not be used much in Karnataka but it is the oficial script...". I just wanted to point out to you that your argument was flawed. Because, unlike in Goa, Devanagari is neither an official script nor is it a script that is used by the people. Therefore, I do not see any reason that the Devanagari script is warranted in this article.
As for Konkani spelling case, once again your claim that you ... changed the name of Konkani to reflect its popular usage among Konkanis is not true. Because, as we established on that talk page, the popular usage among Konkanis(atleast in Ktaka) was koMkaNi and not koMkNi. Sarvagnya 20:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
When a script is chosen as an official script for a language , it is official for it anywhere in India, not just in Goa . This is not to deny the validity if writing Konkani in Kannada script (which is what people in my community) do. Since this article will also be read by other Konkanis too (not just Canarite Konkanis), it would be good to include the Konkani name in Devanagri too. After all Mangalore has so many names in so many languages, why quible over writing one name in two scripts? right :-)? --Deepak D'Souza 06:42, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
I am afraid that you're wrong again. The Konkani language in Devanagari script is the official language of Goa and Goa alone. Similarly, the Kannada language in Kannada script is the official language of Karnataka and Karntaka alone. However, for Konkani, people in Karnataka use the Kannada script. In other words, Konkani in Devanagari script neither has official sanction in Karnataka or anywhere else except Goa nor do the people of Karnataka use it. Hope this helps. Sarvagnya 10:02, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
hi...the konkani in devnagari was added only to facilitate reading by a few mangalorians who have been living outside karnataka and do not have a knowledge of the kannada script. Lets not start a script war here, just think of others too before just fighting for scripts.Let both be, to facilitate readability by both konkanis in mangalore and those who live outside.
Yessrao a.k.a Sushanth 15:53, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
What wierd logic. What do u mean to facilitate 'readability'??! As if its a given that Mangalorians who cant read Kannada can read Devanagari! And again, why are Mangalorians even the focus? This article is for the whole world not just mangalorians. What do u want to add next? Swahili script? Because there may be Mangalorians in some corner of Africa who can read only Swahili? May I request you not to start script wars? Sarvagnya 23:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Sarvagnya, please stop twisting facts . When a script is chosen as official for a language ,it is official for it anywhere in the country.It doesn't change from state to state. What you are saying amounts to this: Kannada can be written in the Kannada script in Karnataka, but it is illegal for a Kannadiga in Mumbai to write it in Kannada script, he/she should only write in the Devanagiri script. Can't you see how silly your argument is? Who says that Devanagari script for Konkani has no offical status in Karnataka. Does that mean that when Hindi is taught in schools in Karnataka it is not taught in Devanagari? No such rule exists, nor can State governments cannot make rules that go against central government rules. If the Konkanis in Karnataka use the Kannada script it is merely out of convenience because most Konkanis have studied Kannada in school, not out of any special status for Kannada script. I know quite a few Kanara Konkanis who use Devanagari or Roman script. I don't think you should be accusing Yessrao of script wars. He has put both versions and that is OK , how does it amount to a script war? And as far as script war is concerned Konkanis are not interested in it. Only a few Kannadiga and Marathi Wikipeidans were fighting over it on the Konkani language page, not Konkanis.
--Deepak D'Souza 04:43, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Ok, now this is going round in circles. Hindi is taught using dvngri script in Karnataka because, that is the only script that Hindi uses. As for Konkani, it uses many scripts and in Karnataka it uses Kannada script. Konkani is also taught using Kannada script in Karnataka not dvngri. Sarvagnya 05:32, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes it is going round in circles, why, because Kannadigas don't want to see the name in Devanagiri script? Why is it such a problem Sarvagnya? Instead of wasting so many words we might as well as let both names be. But no! Kannadiga pride will be hurt if Mangalore's name is written in Devanagiri script, isn't it? Fine have it your way. You are not looking at facts, you are only interested in carrying out your Kannadiga jingoism here. Just like you have done on the Konkani language article.
ANd just for your information, Konkani is not yet taught in Kannada script, only a proposal has been made. And the Karnataka government has yet to act on it.
--Deepak D'Souza 07:08, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Surprise! Sarvagnya, you have argued for the inclusion of Kannada name (along with Tulu) in the article on Shilpa Shetty but are agisnt inclusion of multiple scripts for Konkani! Why this hypocrysy Sarvagnya? And going thorugh your contribs I feel that you have shown quite an Anti-Devanagari bias(Removing the Devanagri transiteration of Sare Jahan se accha is one such "contribution" you have made). --Deepak D'Souza 07:47, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

No. Wrong again. This is what I had said there. I had NOT argued for including Kannada there. Infact, I had added Tulu and nothing else. You can see that here. The only case I made for Kannada on that article was that if Hindi/Devanagari can be used in that article, then so should Kannada. Not otherwise. And please dont accuse me of hypocrisy or an anti-Devanagari bias. I am only against pro-Hindi fanatics pushing for Hindi in all India-related articles. And as always, Devanagari serves as their red herring for Hindi to get a backdoor entry into articles. If you want to discuss this beyond this, lets take it to our talk pages. Thanks. Sarvagnya 08:57, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

A small bit of information - the RBI uses the Devanagari script for Konkani on Indian bank notes. They use only Devanagari, and not the Kannada or Roman scripts. That may mean that Devanagari has some sort of recognition as the script for Konkani from the central government. It's probably worth checking up on, at any rate. -- 82.21.130.8 02:22, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kochi is far more developed

The article cites that Mangalore is the fastest growing Indian city followed by Kochi.This is absolute nonsense.For the information of author,there is no comparison between Mangalore and Kochi,infact Mangalore is no where near Kochi.For your information Kochi is the fastest growing metropolis in India.


So pls change that meaningless note. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 122.167.140.197 (talk) 07:14, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Malayalam and Beary Names

It is incorrect to say that We can't keep on adding names in all scripts in the world. The Malyalam and Byari names are not the same name in different scripts . They are different names for the same place.

The Malayalam name for Mangalore is Mangalapuram. It is not Mangaluru written in Malayalam.If that was the case then it would be redundant and unnecessary. It is used by Malyalis not just in speech but for all official purposes e.g. train names. Mangalore has a small native Malayali population too .

Byari may not be an official language anywhere but it is a language of roughly 5 lakh people native to this region.The Byari name is also different(not a modified version of the same name) and it comes from a different source.

Also, If you look at the following articles in Wikipedia itself you will see that it is a general trend to include all official and local names for a country , city region etc.

These are just some examples. --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 05:22, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Delhi is called ದೆಹಲಿ, China is called ಚೀನಾ in Kannada. Russia is called Roos in Hindi. Most of the countries have different names in German and it's the case with many languages. Please see this article. Now does it make sense to go ahead and add Kannada, Hindi, German or whatever scripts to all these articles? Also please note that all added scripts in those articles that you have mentioned are official languages of respective countries whereas Malayalam is neither official nor majority language in Mangalore. Adding unnecessary scripts in articles will open door for edit wars later and nothing else.Gnanapiti 06:07, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Is Kannada spoken in China? No. Is German spoken in India? No.
Why not include the Konkani names for Mumbai in the Mumbai article? Because even though Konkanis have made a significant contribution to Mumbai, and have a presence there for nearly 300 years, they do not count as natives of Mumbai.
What you have mentioned as the Kannada name of Delhi is Dehali, which is the Urdu name for Delhi, not the Kannada name. B.t.w. if you look at Delhi you will see that the Punjabi and Urdu names are also included.
I didn't say that we should include Mangalore in all scripts, but in all languages that are spoken in Mangalore. Malyalam and Byari qualify. Let me repeat again , they are different names not different scritps for the same name. If German language is the mother tongue of native population in Mangalore , it should also be included.
As far as the sources I have mentioned as being official languages, you are absolutely right. But Italian and Romansh are counted among the official languages in Switzerland even though they make up less than 6.5% and 1% of the population respectively. In Belgium, Germans are found only in the easternmost parts and make less than 0.7% of the population! In Mangalore, Byaris and Malayalis make up better odds than this!
For them it is easy to make 3-4 languages as official languages. I doubt we can make all 22 national langauges(and God knows how many more?) as official langauages in every state, that would be ridiculous. But we can always include the native names of a place regardless of whether the langauges are offical there are not. Tulu isn't included in the list of National Languages(Hope it happens soon). Byari is not recognised as a language(I'm not sure if the census beaureau records it or not). Konkani is not official in Karnataka. If only the offical languages are to be used, only the Kannada, English and Hindi names should be mentioned for all cities in Karnataka, the Tulu and Konkani names should be removed ignoring the majority of the local population!
As far as Adding unnecessary scripts in articles will open door for edit wars later and nothing else., I think you should take a look at Kasaragod! --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 09:53, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
If you want Konkani to be added in Mumbai article, go ahead and discuss there. If you want German to be removed from official language status in Switzerland, go ahead and start a revolution there. And for your reference, Hindi, Punjabi and Urdu are official languages of state of Delhi. I guess that explain all your "points". Gnanapiti 15:56, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Punjabi and Urdu are secondary official languages, not official languages in Delhi. Which means that Government is under no compulsion to support them. And stop being mean and dismissisive of others! You have not really answered my "points", just dismmised them. --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 04:48, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
You are wrong. Mangalore is the modern version of mangala and ooru(village or town). The malaylam word for ooru is "puram". That is why it is called mangalapuram in malayalam.

A literal english translation would be mangala city, just like some foriegn places are still called city (like manchester city). If bangalore was on the border of kerela they would have definately called it bangalpuram and they would have chikmagalur and chikmagalapuram. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 122.167.154.47 (talk) 15:31, 22 April 2007 (UTC).

Thank you for your comments. We are not interested in what could be but what is. While you are right about the etymology of the Malaylam name it still counts as a unique name for Mangalore. --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 04:52, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

And we are not interested in your nonsense. Every city in India has multiple names in different languages. There are more Kannadigas in Bombay than Malayalees in Mangalore and in Kannada it is called Bombaay... doesnt mean we add it to the article. Madras/Chennai is called madaraasu... doesnt mean we add it to the article. Sarvagnya 08:10, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Just because mangalapuram or whatever is mentioned matter of factly on some website doesnt mean malayalam becomes a native language of Mangalore. Mangalore was never Malayalam land and is NOT malayalam land regardless of whether there has been a migration of malayalees in the last couple of decades. Mangalore, historically has only been part of Tulu Nadu or in recent history part of British India. Kasargod on the other hand has always been part of Tulunad and has had a native Tulu and Kannada population. Border cities all over India have populations from across the bordering state. I will be removing the Malayalam script. It makes absolutely no sense. It is neither an official language nor a native language of Mangalore. Not now. Not in history. Sarvagnya 08:04, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
It isnt some website. It is the Mangalore city Corporation offcial site. If Mangalore City corporation doesn't have a problem mentioning the Malayalam name in its own website. Why should we? --Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 12:58, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Just because you throw in the word 'official' into the website's name doesnt change anything. It is the MCC website, alright. That still doesnt mean that Malayalam is either native to mangalore or an official language of Mangalore. That Mangalore is called Mangalapuram is just one of the several facts mentioned on the site. Doesnt mean we cram every one of those 'facts' and their transliterations into the article(the lead at that).
On the flip side, it is not like we should not include 'facts' from outside an 'official' site in an article. Which would mean that, for example, even if the Bombay corporation site doesnt mention that it is called bombaay in Kannada, we can still add it. But we dont. Why? Because we exercise something called commonsense. Commonsense and common knowledge tells us that every place in India has multiple names. Doesnt mean we cram all those names with their transliterations into the respective articles.
In this light, your harping on the 'official' nature of your so-called citation is nonsense. Sarvagnya 16:07, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Don't say too much of Bombay.There are more malayalees in Bombay than kannadigas.If you do not allow malayalam name in Mangalore,then delete kannada name from Kasaragod.What ever history says does not matter as now Kasaragod is in Kerala and there Malayalam is the official language. ARUNKUMAR P.R 06:57, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Kannada and Tulu are native languages of Kasargod and that is why they are there. Similarly, Tulu, Byari and Konkani are native languages of Mangalore. Also, the reason you're pushing for Malayalam here is simply because Malayalees have a name for Mangalore. Good for you. If you want go ahead and create a redirect from Mangalapura to Mangalore. Nobody's stopping you.
And this brings us back to the issue of using vernacular scripts in Indian articles. A discussion had started long back, I think on Indian noticeboard or somewhere but it somehow was never taken to its logical end. You are welcome to re-start the discussion, get feedback from the wider wikipedia community(particularly Indian) and come back and add the Malayalam script if that is the consensus. Until then, hold your peace and dont revert war. Sarvagnya 07:35, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree that Tulu is the native language of Kasaragod.But Kannada is not one.You Kannadigas think and take Tulu to be a dialect of Kannada.This is not the case.Tulu has also got the same type of similarity with Malayalam.You take Tulu to be a Kannada dialect and ask for includence of Kasaragod in Karnataka? If a seperate state called Tulunadu is formed,then Kasaragod belong to that state.Also Iam a malayalee-tuluva who can speak in malayalam form of Tulu.So don't teach me on history of Kasaragod.

ARUNKUMAR P.R 11:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

So you have the right to change anything because you dont like it? So why not remove the Kannada name of Mangalore? after all they make up less than 5 % of the population of the city?

--Deepak D'Souza (talk • contribs) 12:48, 23 May 2007 (UTC)