Talk:Mandarin Chinese profanity

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[edit] Non-native words

Most of the examples are written by non-native speakers of Mandarin. For example, in Beijing people always say 'zar' whereas in Tianjin 'gege'. Also we only pronounce 'Malegebi' never any of those examples quoted.

Karolus 20080408 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.190.32.7 (talk) 23:53, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Very good

Bravo on a very well done article! Badagnani 11:26, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Question: is zázhǒng (雜種) a slang term -- does it belong in this article? If equivalent to the English usage, maybe it's not slang -- just rude/vulgar. Badagnani 00:21, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Niubi

The second character for niubi is given differently from another spelling: 牛逼. What is the difference? Also, the literal meaning for niubi should be given in the article. 131.123.231.143 00:23, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Title should be changed

Title should be changed to Mandarin Slang & Insults

Xihe

[edit] Trad characters?

How about adding the Traditional Chinese characters?

204.95.114.114 23:58, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

I'll start adding the traditional characters in increments as time permits. I'm gonna need others to help me verify them though. In the meantime, this is a good reason to study both character sets :-) Vindictive Warrior 05:05, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Just checking, are there some expressions that are only used in the PRC and not used in Taiwan, Singapore, etc. where traditional characters are used? If so, does it make sense to add trad. characters for all expressions? While you're at it, why not add wiktionary links for all as well? Badagnani 05:21, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

It looks like it's coming along very well. Badagnani 06:15, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Wow, I didn't expect a reply so quickly; this page must be quite popular :-p. Anyway, yes, there are definitely variations in the Mandarin used in different areas (I tend to hear my mainland friends say 操 quite often, and my Taiwanese friends say 靠 a lot, for example). In that case, I think it's best to add a note to the end of each entry in which regional differences apply. In the meantime, I don't mind adding traditional characters indiscriminately, I'm bored.

Anyway, for those unable to wait for my next phase and are capable of entering traditional Chinese, notice I revised the format of the entries for easier reading and organization. Those learning Chinese will probably want to read the Pinyin prior to looking at the characters. Pinyin is usually italicized in order for the eyes to quickly distinguish romanization from words (in MediaWiki, this can be done with double apostraphes in place of the <i></i> HTML tags). PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT ITALICIZE CHINESE CHARACTERS, it's a pain in the derrière to read it. I let the simplified characters precede the traditional ones simply because they were here first. If an Instant Messaging abbreviation exists, that should go last within the parentheses. If, in your opinion, this new format is absolutely repulsive, please speak out so we can consider something else. Otherwise, the rest of the entries will be formatted as such.

Vindictive Warrior 06:46, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with everything, except one thing. I've been working with hanzi and pinyin here for some time now, and I've come to feel that pinyin does not read well when italicized. While words in other languages look okay with italics (French, Spanish, Hindi, or whatever) pinyin does not. Perhaps bold could be used instead, or no italics. Just my thoughts. Badagnani 06:55, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I see. Well, it's open to experimentation and discussion. Bold does work as an attention-grabber, but just that I see a lot of romanization (such as in Japanese) in Wikipedia as italics. *yawn*, 在加州現在就是半夜, 我下午大概可以回來。再見！ (My Chinese may sound either too formal or too broken, since I'm still learning it) Vindictive Warrior 07:13, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm a "1" level Chinese speaker/reader as well -- what did people do before Wiktionary?? : ) Japanese romanization looks okay with italics, maybe because they only have macrons to deal with. With hanzi there are more tone marks and I guess that's the problem with legibility; they're hard to read in italics. Badagnani 07:26, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Ugh, my teachers are relentless with homework, as usual, so I haven't been online recently. I guess I shouldn't make promises to return at a given time. Anyway, it does seem that bold-face pinyin looks much better, and doesn't screw up the tone markings as much as italics. Only a matter of time until the article is covered completely. Adding Wiktionary links is an entirely different task though :-p. Vindictive Warrior 06:01, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I think by now I've put up all of the applicable trad. characters, but since I relied heavily on Wiktionary, it really doesn't replace the knowledge of an expert (since some simp. chars have more than one corresponding trad. char, and so on). (狗娘式開始。。。)Although this isn't the best place to say this, I must say that I hate Wikipedia's edit-conflict handling, discarding the user's work and replacing it with the most recent copy. How's this: show a side-by-side comparison chart, show the user's work on the bottom, THEN invite the user to merge changes from there... (狗娘式完了). I suppose full Wiktionary linking comes next? Vindictive Warrior 07:57, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

By the way, many thanks to Badagnani for formatting the article and cleaning up! Vindictive Warrior 07:59, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

It's great fun! Hope this will be of use to people in the future. Badagnani 08:09, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Attention: Slang Glossary policy discussion underway

Slang glossaries violate the following policy:

Wikipedia is not a dictionary

Wikipedia is not a dictionary or a usage or jargon guide. Wikipedia articles are not:

Dictionary definitions. Because Wikipedia is not a dictionary, please do not create an entry merely to define a term. An article should usually begin with a good definition; if you come across an article that is nothing more than a definition, see if there is information you can add that would be appropriate for an encyclopedia. An exception to this rule is for articles about the cultural meanings of individual numbers.
Lists of such definitions. There are, however, disambiguation pages consisting of pointers to other pages; these are used to clarify differing meanings of a word. Wikipedia also includes glossary pages for various specialized fields.
A usage guide or slang and idiom guide. Wikipedia is not in the business of saying how words, idioms, etc. should be used. We aren't teaching people how to talk like a Cockney chimney-sweep. However, it may be important in the context of an encyclopedia article to describe just how a word is used to distinguish among similar, easily confused ideas, as in nation or freedom. In some special cases an article about an essential piece of slang may be appropriate.

Due to the many AfDs which are initiated to enforce this policy and due to the resistance to such deletion by defenders of the glossaries, I have started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not#Slang glossaries to rewrite the policy in order to solve this problem and to readdress this question: should slang glossaries by allowed on Wikipedia? --List Expert 23:44, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

This article is useful to Wikipedia users around the world and provides information that is not available elsewhere. Furthermore, the article Mandarin slang is not a simple glossary but instead includes text and explanations of various usages. Badagnani 00:00, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Taiwan use

I think to use "tongzhi" for homosexual is taiwan use, isn't it? Also, 150 means stupid person, as well. --—Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.183.130.133 (talk • contribs)

[edit] 您

Why does this article use the honourific 您 (pronounced nín, not nǐ) instead of 你? -Y-Burn 19:08, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Fixed. Badagnani 16:34, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 流氓

If 流氓 is slang, it needs to be added. Badagnani 16:33, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 猫咪

I think we need this one too. Badagnani 17:30, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

This would obviously be a derivative of 咪咪, but I have never seen it used. --Voidvector 18:07, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Drugs

I know drugs aren't prevalent in the P.R.C., however this list seems incomplete without at least touching on the subject.--Grok1122 09:48, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

There is a market for it. I am guessing you were referring to the "street names" in Chinese. The only street name that I am aware of is 快乐丸 (happy pill), which is Ecstasy. --Voidvector 21:46, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Tu" and "hai"

The slang for "tu" (土; unfashionable) and "hai" (海; fashionable) should be added as well. Badagnani 09:53, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

土 is not a slang, it has a dictionary definition for something like this. There are number of words derived from this which are used in literary setting, e.g. 土气 (barbarous). I don't encounter 海 as much, but I thought it means "extreme". If it does mean "extreme" then it is also a dictionary definition that has been around for centuries. --Voidvector 21:00, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

No, I was told 海 can mean (in slang) "fashionable"--the opposite of "tu" (土; unfashionable). Wiktionary doesn't possess any of these definitions we're discussing. Badagnani 21:54, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I have never seen them used as antonyms, so I can't help on that. I wouldn't be surprised informal usages are not listed under Wiktionary, they are often not listed under Chinese-English dictionary either. When I said dictionary definition, I meant Xinhua Zidian. Regarding mántóu, it is fine. In my experience, tofu is a lot more popular. --Voidvector 21:19, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ta Ma De

I'm fairly certain that "TaMaDe" (his mother's) is actually quite vulgar, as I certainly wouldn't say it to anyone in Taiwan. It is often translated as "fuck" and is used in the same way ... "This Fucking Car" ... "Zhe Lian TaMaDe Che Zi"

I think perhaps it's best to not put any distinction of it being more or less vulgar after it.

You must be hanging out with awfully fussy people; it is heard on television, and even Lu Xun wrote about it decades ago. Foxhead 17:44, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism

Sure, stating the obvious is good, but beginning the article by saying that Mandarin slang contains a lot of taboo words is just overdoing it. What type of slang doesn't include taboo words? Since no human culture in the world is really all that comfortable with public proclamations of sex, slang by definition will take over the role of describing much of it. Comparisons are also good, but they should be a lot more specific than "like in English". Just consider the huge differences that exist within such a widespread language to realize why this is rather pointless.

And please don't confuse "insults" with "foul language" and then define "slang" as consisting merely of these two concepts. One can easily insult someone without having to resort even to mild slang and slang itself always involves a lot more than just naughty words. It generally refers to non-standard language of any kind, and can range from different names for food to synonyms for everyday verbs.

Peter ^Isotalo 07:26, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Then change the title. The article deals primarily with verbal aggression and obscene/blasphemous language (Maledicta). Badagnani 07:28, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

The problem of narrow coverage is not solved by changing an article's title, but by expanding the article to cover other aspects of the topic.

Peter ^Isotalo 10:28, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

It could grow a bit long. Sexual slang is one subject, verbal aggression is another (though they overlap), but "teenagery" slang words that don't fit into either of those headings, and Internet/text message-style Martian language is yet another thing. Badagnani 18:12, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Slang is a very broad topic, so I don't quite see the problem of having it covered by a rather long article. But it should be noted that the current text is really just a long list of slang terms rather than any kind of summary of traits of either slang, profanities or verbal aggression. More prose and fewer bullet lists would be a clear improvement.

Peter ^Isotalo 10:34, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Have to agree with Peter here. The point of wikipedia is not, as far as I know, to give long lists of words in foreign languages, offensive or otherwise. As far as I can see, the page should be changed to incorporate etymology/history of usage/modern usage in greater detail, otherwise the educational/encyclopaedic aims of wikipedia are pretty much ignored. At the moment the page barely even reads as a "How to insult people in Chinese" manual. I'm not the one to make changes as my knowledge of Mandarin slang/insults/whatever is minimal, but maybe someone who really wants to see this page kept should make an effort...Headbeater (talk) 00:24, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Etymology is given for most words. Badagnani (talk) 00:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] BEST ARTICLE ON WIKIPEDIA

nuff said. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.212.187.219 (talk) 22:24, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mala

From the Sichuan mala article: "The adjective málà is also used in Mandarin slang to mean 'sexy', much like the word 'hot' in English. The Mandarin title of the animated series Kim Possible is Málà Nǚhái (麻辣女孩; literally 'numbing-hot girl')."

Can this be verified, and, if accurate, added to the article? Badagnani (talk) 08:46, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 娘娘腔 (suggested merge)

娘娘腔 is not a very vulgar profanity, but it is an insult, so I suggest a merge. The article doesn't have much content beyond its definition and usage. --Voidvector (talk) 21:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

From the information I have, I would support this merge. Badagnani (talk) 21:03, 26 May 2008 (UTC)