Talk:Manchester City F.C.

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Contents

[edit] Honours

Are you lot really that desparate that you include being runners up as an genuine honour? Runners up in the Simod Cup/ZDS Trophy! 20/9/06

I'm so glad your life is so empty that you spend you time looking at City related websites. Come joins us if you're so keen, but sorry no prawn sandwiches...

[edit] Noted former players

I have reverted the addition of Peter Schmeichel to the Noted former players section. My reasoning is that the section is primarily for players who were notable as Manchester City players. Schmeichel is certainly a notable player, but he only spent one season at City at the end of his career, hence his time at City was not particularly notable. Players such as George Weah and David Seaman are excluded for similar reasons. Oldelpaso 13:19, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I think Stuart Pearce should be in notable former players - his time at City was reasonably notable, and he is one of the top English full-backs of his generation. Thoughts? --Gavinio 13:47, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
In the time since when I wrote that message the format has changed to only include players included in the club's hall of fame (a more objective criterion than before), and Pearce is not a member of the hall of fame. Even if the format included players not in the hall of fame, Pearce played only one season, well past his prime - the most notable achievements in his playing career happened playing for Forest and England, rather than City. Though he made a valuable contribution, he was not exceptional i.e. did not set any club records, was not player of the year etc. Oldelpaso 19:29, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
Fair enough - well said. Just seems a bit sparse on notable players of late, it would be nice to have something there. I suppose his contribution really was missing that penalty in the last game at Maine Road. There really is no-one for 2000's then - maybe SWP if he goes on to be an England regular?--Gavinio 23:33, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crest?

Does anybody have a better copy of the crest? This one still has the "Maine Road" banner. --Chancemichaels 21:06, 19 May 2006 (UTC)Chancemichaels

Where can we get one from? We can't just get them off the official sites or anything can we? I'm not that familiar with Wikipedia rules... --Gavinio 13:31, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
You can copy it from the official site as per Wikipedia's fair use rule. Just be sure to put the proper tag in the description (in this case {{sports-logo|football logos}} ) so that this disclaimer shows up on the image page. Otherwise it will be deleted. - Pal 13:42, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, that's the right one, but the quality is terrible. I'll see if I can find another one that qualifies for fair use. --Chancemichaels17:38, 18 July 2006 (UTC) Chancemichaels

Can people please stop referring to football club badges as crests! They are no such thing. A crest in heraldry is the device that appears on the helmet above the shield on a "coat-of-arms". Please think about what the word actually means...crest of a wave, crest on a birds head etc.

[edit] Stadium

"though by 1995 its capacity was restricted to 32,000, prompting the move to the City of Manchester Stadium.". This was changed to 35,000. I've changed it back again because while Maine Road's capacity was 35,000 when it closed, this was due to the addition of temporary stands after the decision to move had been made. The capacity when negotiations about a new stadium started was 32,000 odd. Probably ought to expand upon that (using sources) in Maine Road... Oldelpaso 17:45, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

A brief paragraph on the new wind turbine would be good Pomtarr 14:07, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

The stadium section is a brief summary of the articles City of Manchester Stadium and Maine Road. The wind turbine gets half a paragraph in City of Manchester Stadium, but I think replicating that here would be excessive detail for the main club article. Oldelpaso 18:30, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] We're not really here

I've been asked by many friends this year about the origins of the "We're not really here" song. I had a vague idea about the relationship to its emegence in the 98/99 Division 2 year but did a bit more digging and put my findings in a brief paragraph under "Supporters". I'm no wikipedia expert but thought it was worth a mention. Also, I'm unsure if my refencing/citations were of the required standard. If anyone has any more information or feels the need to update/improve my attempt I wont be offended.Kinkladze28 13:52, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I've since removed the paragraph - my references/citations were not of the required standard! If anyone does have something official about the song, I still think its worth a mention?? Kinkladze28 09:12, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Youth players

I've removed a list of youth players from the article, as the usual convention for squadlists is to only include players issued with a squad number. Oldelpaso 08:30, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Use of the singular/plural

This article, being about a British football club, is written in British English (following the recommendation by the Manual of Style on the relevant variety of English to use in an article). As a result, it uses the discretionary plural, namely that collective nouns such as club and team can be used in either the singular or the plural. Generally, in British English media, sporting teams are referred to in the plural. Consequently, this article refers to the club in the plural throughout, for consistency's sake.

This is notably different from American English, where sporting teams are always referred to in the singular. However, in British English it is perfectly grammatically correct to use the plural and this should be borne in mind before jumping to conclusions about inappropriate subject/verb agreement. Oldelpaso 18:32, 9 August 2006 (UTC) (via User:Qwghlm on Talk:Arsenal F.C.)

discretionary plural is used badly in first line, so i've changed it.--Mongreilf 09:22, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
changed it back. couldn't be arsed to change them all. as it is it's a mess though--Mongreilf 09:27, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
OK, I reverted my copyedit. But using singular and plural in the same sentence seems a bit much: "...the club has fallen on harder times, and have not won a major honour...". --Shyland 11:36, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


Following up, may I quote something from the "different from American English" article: 'Use of the singular verb is not wrong in such instances in BrE. At least one authority (E. Gowers, The Complete Plain Words, 1986) indicates that either is acceptable (provided that usage is not mixed or inconsistent within the same document), and that (as implied above) the choice of verb form may be chosen according to whether the emphasis is on the body as a whole or on the individual members (e.g. "A committee was appointed ...; but "the committee were unable to agree ...").' So I'd say it needs fixing up, but being American I am ill-qualified to do it. --Shyland 11:46, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
The confused use of singulars & plurals might be acceptable by some, but only really to those who do not know that there is a differnce. Also, note that somthing being acceptable to some people does mean it is correct. Most people accept that there are religions other than their own, but they do not generally accept them as correct.

[edit]

As referred to above, the sentence "A committee was appointed ...; but "the committee were unable to agree ..." is correct as the first instance of committee is referring to the object and the second instance refers to its members. By convention, football clubs are refered to in the third person plural as "Manchester City" is not an object without its members, it means nothing without having directors, a team, etc...a "committee" exists as a recognised entity without any members (as it is still understood was 'committee' means) Djdannyp 12:08, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Hey guys, I just added a bit about Oasis. Feel free to keep changing back and forth between is and are, but don't revert, pleease. Scolaire 17:39, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
The consensus from various discussions on WikiProject Football is that mention of famous supporters should not be included in club articles, and that support for a team should be mentioned in the individual's article, not that of the club. (That gig is already mentioned in Maine Road btw) Oldelpaso 17:53, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Far be it from me to go against WikiProject Football, but do you not sometimes think that following procedures gets in the way of something that's actually interesting? btw I'm interested in Man City but not especially in Maine Road. Scolaire 19:25, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

You're missing the nub of the problem which is in the first sentence. The verb to be is used (either as "is" or "are" and not as an auxilary verb) to identify Manchester City (singular or plural) as being a football club (singular). It's like saying Ireland are a Country, which is silly, whereas Ireland are fighting for independance from Britain might be acceptable.--Mongreilf 14:39, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

It's disappointing to see that this confusion over singular/plural still exists in the article, even in the lead: ... the club has not won a major honour since 1976. The club's decline led to relegation twice in three years in the 1990s, meaning they spent ..." Yes, I understand that in British English the discretionary plural can be used for sports teams, but if it's used then it's got to be used consistently. "Club" is either singular or plural, someone has to decide, and decide consistently. FAs are supposed to be written to a "professional" standard, setting the benchmark for the rest. --Malleus Fatuarum 18:57, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Midfielder / attacking midfielder

While the MCFC website makes the distinction between midfielder and attacking midfielder, the squad template is standard across all football articles, and does not make this distinction. Oldelpaso 10:10, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Beanie

I think that Beanie could be mentioned under trivia - I think a sentance would do it, total removal was a bit harsh. Some sort of mention of the little guy might be reasonable. --Gavinio 11:58, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

In the context of the club's 126 year history, something the tabloids write a couple of lighthearted paragraphs about is completely insignificant. It'll be forgotten in a week, never mind a year or ten years. Oldelpaso 17:32, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Not if it leads to a streak of 10 games without a loss! :o) Wikipedia is an evolving thing - when beanie is forgotton (ok, in about 2 weeks time) then remove the reference to him then - that's how it works, isn't it? I don't mean including news - but just what is important right now. Rather than aspiring an article to be 'finished' and then preserved as is, with no removal of material. Just a thought.--Gavinio 22:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rivalry

Would Manchester City and Manchester United be considered rivals?Apple1013 22:01, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

  • chokes on morsel of dinner* Are you serious? In short, Yes. Intensely. You evidently haven't been to Manchester or witnessed a Manchester derby. Oldelpaso 18:27, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notable former players

Several players from recent years keep being added to this section. As the section itself states, only players who have been admitted to the club's Hall of Fame are included. This ensures that the section keeps a neutral point of view rather than being an arbitrary list of someone's favourites. While the likes of Shaun Goater and Shaun Wright-Phillips are highly likely to be admitted to the Hall of Fame at some point in the future, at the moment they have not been, and thus are not included. Oldelpaso 18:14, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crest

I have removed a couple of recent additions to the Colours and crest section, namely There is no apparent reason why this eagle design was adopted. and The shield features a ship on its upper half (not representing the Ship Canal as is popular belief, the ship has been part of the Manchester City crest since before the Ship Canal was built). With regards to the eagle, the club press release at the release of the new crest stated (albeit tenuously) "It retains the original shield set against an eagle taken from the Badge of the City of Manchester, dating from 1957" [1]. While City/Ardwick predate the completion of Ship Canal (construction started the same year Gorton AFC became Ardwick, and finished two years after the Manchester City name was adopted)), the badge featuring the ship was not introduced until the 1960s. An in-depth description of the evolution of City crests is given in Gary James' Manchester: The Greatest City. Oldelpaso 17:59, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Of course, if the editor who made the additions has a source which contradicts this, I'd be interested in hearing about it. Oldelpaso 18:00, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

can anyone tell me why man city have 3 stars above their badge? 81.134.191.4 09:02, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

From the club's official website [2]: "The stars have no significance and are purely decorative." Oldelpaso 16:44, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] City in Fiction

(this section moved from article page) The character of Eugene on the series Cutting It was a massive City fan who sported a City shirt in virtually every scene in which he appeared. In the series Life on Mars, DCI Gene Hunt is a City fan who, upon hearing of the murder of a United supporter, comments that at least the killer had a good motive. In another episode he mentions Francis Lee while complaing about the lack of "supplies" in the WC. An obvious reference to Lee's later business success.

While there might be a case for creating a "City in popular culture" section like Arsenal_F.C.#Arsenal_in_popular_culture (including things like There's Only One Jimmy Grimble), the above mentions are entirely trivial IMO. Oldelpaso 11:33, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thaksin Shinawatra

As Thaksin Shinawatra has not made a bid for the club, and it is currently only press speculation about a possible bid, I have removed the paragraph about it from the lead. Oldelpaso 18:51, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

And, inevitably, as soon as I had written that a formal statement about due diligence and inspection of the accounts by his advisors was announced. Oldelpaso 17:15, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spoken version added

I have added a spoken version of this article; see the link at the top. Hassocks5489 20:39, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sven Goran Eriksson

Is it official that he has signed a contract with Man City? If not, why does his name already put in the article for the Man city's manager? 84.19.57.254 14:21, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

No. He will be named as manager if and when the takeover goes through. Over-eager editors keep putting him in, but until he is officially unveiled as manager, his name should not be entered in the infobox. Oldelpaso 17:06, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Kippax.jpg

Image:Kippax.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:27, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Oldmanchestercitylogo.gif

Image:Oldmanchestercitylogo.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:43, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nashat Akram

Has Nashat Akram actually signed? I'm getting mixed information. I know last week he hadn't signed a contract but I don't know now. Either way I really doubt he has the number 17 but I won't edit anything unless I'm sure edit: Ok whoever added it has now removed it. In any case I'm still not sure..? 24framespersecond (talk) 11:08, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

There has been no official announcement yet, I think they are still waiting on work visa approval. So currently he should not be listed in the squad list. Also based on some comments by Sven, it is not clear that even when he is signed that he will be included in the first team squad Pbradbury (talk) 13:06, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
As reported today on mcfc.co.uk Man City failed to gain a work permit for him, so he will not be joining at this time. Pbradbury (talk) 21:28, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bianchi on his way out

Apparently already on loan to Lazio, see Rolando Bianchi MickMacNee (talk) 17:29, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

The BBC says "set to clinch Lazio move", the Manchester Evening News "close to completing", so the transfer has not gone through yet. While it may only be a case of formalities, he is not yet a Lazio player, and should not be removed until the deal is complete. Oldelpaso (talk) 18:38, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I intended to imply in progress, this was just a heads up for any man city editors. MickMacNee (talk) 18:42, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
And, as always seems to be the case with such things, the deal is confirmed a mere two hours after I post a note of caution. Oldelpaso (talk) 18:28, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Dabo

I can't find a source for Dabo having left yet that is verifiable, not on the Man City or Lazio site, and no reputable newspaper report. I can find rumours but nothing confirmed Pbradbury (talk) 12:30, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

And now it is confirmed Pbradbury (talk) 15:02, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kelvin Etuhu

What flag should be used for Kelvin? he was born in Nigeria, lived most of his life in the UK, he is eligable to play for both countries (having played for neither senior team). His brother plays for Nigeria, although I am not sure that really has much bearing. Anyway, what is the convention since I see someone has changed his flag to English. I had set it as Nigeria basing my assumption on that birth took precident until something else changed that, such as an international cap. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pbradbury (talk • contribs) 21:30, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Semi-Protect

I wanted to ask whether we could semi-protect this page for an extended period, I know it is possible to do it permanently. I have been reticent to ask for it because there are valid reason why people may want to edit as an IP user, such as living in China. However having thought about it some more and monitored the IP edits, I have a couple of points to raise.

  • It is not a politically sensative article even with current ownership as such edits should not really attract the scrutiny of sensors.
  • I have yet to see a constructive edit made by an IP user. Most are either staright vandalism or transfer speculation.

Anyway those are my thoughts, any other opinions? Pbradbury (talk) 21:46, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

No. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.151.21 (talk) 13:47, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bianchi back

Rolando Bianchi is back from loan. Can someone add his name back to the squad list? See article on goal.com for this. [1]

Doesn't say he is back just that Lazio isn't going to buy him so he will be returning at the end of his loan period. Paul  Bradbury 14:58, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References