Talk:Malachi Martin

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[edit] References needed

This article contains many unsubstantiated statements presented as fact. For example, "It is theorized that his death, though listed to medical cause, is an elaborate hoax to conceal a vengeful murder to hide from public, his intimate knowledge of secretive information and the people who were his informants," is unacceptable without reference to an external source. 141.154.220.74 08:19, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Questions about Martin's truthfulness

I considered the book "Hostage to the Devil" a very good read. But was Malachi Martin really the man he wanted others to believe he was? There are certain incriminating facts that seem to blemish his stature as a true and devoutful Christian. Question is how to interpret these facts. Are they true or false. Read the comments on this man by Michael Hoffman II. Adelphos 04:28, 24 September 2005 (GMT)

[edit] Minor Addition

Some mention of Father Martin's Ashley should probably be included...

[edit] Traditionalist

Removed the link to the Traditionalist page on Wikipedia. It erroneously portrayed his "leanings." Whatever elsemay be said about him, (Fr)Martin was a Traditional Catholic and not a Traditionalist as that article is concerned.

[edit] Why has this article not been questioned?=

Malachi Martin's books belong in the fiction section of the bookstore, and in particular, in this article, Liberation Theology, a legitimate branch of modern theology, has no place on the list of "fringe" topics, unlike Martin's semi-deranged Dan-Brown-like flights of fancy (Brown at least has an excuse because he knows he is writing fiction).

[edit] The New Castle: Reaching for the Ultimate

This was a very good book, however it seems to have been made at a time when he was slightly liberalized (though, do remember that he often draws a distinction between politics and theology, so there probably does not have to be too much contradiction). -- 69.248.43.27 01:27, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Traditionalist & Sedevacantist

There is a major error in this entry, in that it claims that Martin was a "Traditionalist" who was disaffected by the Vatican II reforms, and so sought a dispensation from his vows except for that of chastity.

As a matter of fact, Martin was fully in the spirit of the reforms, but choose to pursue a literary career, which is why he requested to be dispensed.

It was only later that he began to show Traditionalist and Sedevacantist tendencies, and the sincerity of those are suspect.

Martin, in one of his works, testified that he had participated in the 1958 Conclave where Giuseppe Siri was elected Pope, and he (Martin) carried a threatening message that terrorized Siri to resign so that Roncalli could be elected. Personally, I believe this account to be fictional, make-believe, and inspired by his later contacts with Siri-minded conspiracy theorists.

Again, Rama P. Coomaraswamy testifies in writing on his website that Martin claimed to have been made a bishop secretly by Pope Pius XII for the Communist Block, and acting on the basis of this, he (Martin) conditionally re-ordained Coomaraswamy when doubts regarding the validity of his ordination at the hands of Lopez-Gaston were raised.

I have seen accounts claiming that Martin even claimed to have been made a secret Cardinal. I would say that I am grateful that he did not claim to be the true, if secret, Pope!!! Who knows, the Sirianists may end up coming out with such a claim!

Kind regards,


My Wikidness 15:54, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More and better sources

This weak article could use some better citations. There is too much POV, conspiracy chat and dodgy sources.

As an example of something better (and I'll try and get round to editing when I have some more time) see the informed discussion of Martin and his work in the National Catholic Reporter by a distinguished professor of theology at Dominican University, Chicago, Fr. Richard Woods OP, in the edition of April 29th, 2005. Here's a selection of comments from that piece:-

Back in the 1970s, when possession and exorcism were the cinematic and fictional flavor of the era--one that historian Martin Marty appropriately called "the silly season"--it fell to my lot to conduct a pre-publication review of Malachi Martin's sensational book Hostage to the Devil. I was allied in this with an internationally celebrated clinical psychologist. Working independently, our conclusion was the same: Martin's five "cases" were fabrications of an inventive but disturbed mind, lacking all psychological, historical, theological and pastoral credibility.
Some time later, I interviewed Malachi Martin on television. A former priest, Martin had left the Jesuit order under cloudy conditions, to say the least. (The sordid details were described in Robert Blair Kaiser's agonized 2002 memoir, Clerical Error: A True Story.) In person, I found Martin to be a clever, charming, engaging Irish rogue who evaded every effort to document the instances of possession he so graphically described. In the end, my earlier suspicion that Martin was a deeply disturbed individual was strongly reinforced. A decade later, when M. Scott Peck's second book, People of the Lie, was published, I was appalled to find that he, a newly committed Christian of a vaguely evangelical stripe, had accepted and endorsed Martin's fictional ravings as accurate and instructive case studies...
...Insouciant in his ignorance of the real history of and the extensive literature on possession phenomena, Dr. Peck hails Martin as "the greatest expert on the subject of possession and exorcism in the English-speaking world" and "brilliant," despite his own misgivings and warnings from colleagues that Martin was a sociopath. The psychiatrist's resolute adulation of Martin is thus both disturbing and misleading. Despite Dr. Peck's claim that he was the most famous exorcist in the world, Malachi Martin had no discernible training, expertise or even adequate knowledge of the history or ministry of exorcism in--or out of--the Catholic faith he once professed but which he bitterly turned against at the end of his unhappy life. Moreover, by Dr. Peck's own frequent admission, Martin was a liar and manipulator.

Testbed 18:29, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Yeah, I really don't think it's a good idea to have the citation go to the talk page. It'd be better if we could find an online version. I think some of this could be quoted directly, but it doesn't really seem to corroborate the bit about Martin's alleged affair. Otherwise, I would insert this quote directly into the article. TallNapoleon (talk) 00:36, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
The link to the Talk page was only added to show the often rather unscholarly people who contribute to this article that there is a source. It is fine just to have the reference listed.
As to online sources, I am one of those old-fashioned people who thinks a reference library is as good as clicking on a link, and so many of my contributions depend on looking something up (happily, Wikipedia guidelines agree with this approach). The same goes for the Kaiser book, which is where the affair is detailed at great length: if online is so important to you, I suspect you'll be able to find a review of the book which spells it out. In any case, thanks for trying to start cleaning the article up: it's always been full of tendentious nonsense. Testbed (talk) 12:17, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Kaiser has written a book. Now the allegations made in the book can be referenced. But this does not make them true! (nor untrue). --Stijn Calle (talk) 16:20, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 23:16, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Contradictions

At one point it says he left the priesthood. At another point it says he exercised his priestly ministry for his whole life. Are not these two propositions mutually exclusive? I leave it to others to edit this, since I don't know very much about the article's subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.21.49.12 (talk) 15:13, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Martin left his order (Jesuits) and ipso facto the vow of obedience to it. But he remained a priest and was allowed to say mass. --Stijn Calle (talk) 15:52, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

"This was collaborated by Father Vincent O’Keefe S.J....." Should the word be "corroborated"? Or did O'Keefe assist in some way? Also, Martin was often on Buckley's Firing Line television show in the 1970s, perhaps the time of his greatest visibility. Some mention might be made of that. 69.136.109.182 (talk) 12:38, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the point of WP is, YOU can assist in that --Stijn Calle (talk) 14:09, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Uncited material

There was a very large amount of uncited negative material here, much of which I have removed. Even though Martin is not living any more, negative material should be thoroughly and reputably sourced. TallNapoleon (talk) 09:23, 30 April 2008 (UTC)