Talk:Make A Child Smile

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May I ask what is wrong with this page describing the services of a registered tax-exempt CHARITY???

Please clarify, and I will gladly edit what is not allowed to be there.

I have found Wikipedia pages of other charities, so please let me know what is wrong with this one.

Thank you,

Alexandra Bakker

Greetings. The article appears to be wikispam, i.e., an advertisement masquerading as an article. Articles considered advertisements include those that are solicitations for a business, product or service, or are public relations pieces designed to promote a company or individual. Wikispam articles are usually noted for sales-oriented language and external links to a commercial website. Blatant examples of advertising masquerading as articles can be speedily deleted.
When an article on an otherwise encyclopedic topic has the tone of an advertisement, the article can often be salvaged by rewriting it in a neutral point of view and adding context, e.g., historical relevance or community recognition. Please provide sources to establish the subject's notability. Of course, the need for sources goes beyond notability. Information added to an article must be verifiable, and facts included must be attributed to a reliable source. Please also see Wikipedia's guideline concerning conflicts of interest. Thanks. --Evb-wiki (talk) 13:12, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Okay

I see... Ok.. I changed the wording of the "Previous Kids" paragraph as it did sound like it was "asking" for people to do something. Now it sounds more like a statement.

As for the DONATIONS header, should that be totally deleted or maybe reworded?

And how do I provide "sources to establish the subject's notability"?? I have absolutely no idea how. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MACSORG (talk • contribs) 13:24, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Citing sources. --Evb-wiki (talk) 14:44, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fixed?

I just removed the text "Visit the Donations page today to make your tax-deductible contribution." from the DONATIONS header, is this ok now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MACSORG (talk • contribs) 13:28, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

What happens now? I need to leave shortly for a few hours, won't be near a computer and am afraid that the page I took so long to create, will be delete. Please respond. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MACSORG (talk • contribs) 13:50, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

An administrator will come by (soon or eventually) and decide whether the article now meets Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion. --Evb-wiki (talk) 14:44, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I am that administrator. I've decided not to delete the article on grounds that it's advertising, since sufficient edits have been made so that it no longer reads as an advert. However, it's possible that the subject does not meet our notability guidelines, and that's another criterion for speedy deletion. I'll leave it be for now, but Evb-wiki (or another user) may feel inclined to add a {{db-web}} tag to the page, which could well see the article deleted. To avoid that, please make sure the subject meets our notability requirements and that the introduction to the article makes that clear. Waggers (talk) 15:47, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hello again

Hello again... thank you for doing some editing on my page! I am glad that even though you reworded it a bit, it still looks great and the important info remains there.

But I am stuck on this Citation Needed requirement. I read the Citation page, but have no idea how to come up with Citations for all those Media (TV and Magazine) sources I gave. Plus, you also request a Citation on my second paragraph. How do I put a Citation on the description of what we do?

Oh, this is too hard. I am almost giving up having a page about our Organization on Wikipedia. What a shame because it looks great!! Especially with the thumbnails of the kid's with their mail.

So please help me further on how am I supposed to add Citations from TV shows & magazines?? Do I need to quote what the magazine wrote? And what the TV Show said? That will be pretty repetitive, since they will all describe the Organization the same way.

I understand and respect Wikipedia's Guidelines, (I visit this website quite often to read articles), but I think that you're making this a little bit too hard for me, so I need your help again. If all fails, oh well, I tried. And you're welcome to delete the page.

One more question... When all this is done, and the page is accepted, will this TALK page remain here with all what we wrote?? Or will it be deleted?

Well, once again, thank you so much Waggers for helping with the editing. Just need help with the Citations now.

If you look at the page below, you will see that most Magazine Articles say the same thing, so it will be tough putting a different Citation for each that you required. http://www.makeachildsmile.org/news.shtml

[edit] Sources?

By the way... isn't the video on my External Link "WCCO-CBS Channel 4 News Story - Eagan, MN" show enough notability that Wikipedia is requesting? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MACSORG (talk • contribs) 06:52, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

While the subject's own website is not considered a reliable source, a cite to the magazine article itself is a reliable source. See notability of organizations and reliable sources. --Evb-wiki (talk) 13:09, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Yeay!! I added a Citation to the Redbook (External Link). Can someone tell me if I did that right? Is that what was needed?
If so, I can add to the others because I have the info on who wrote the articles, but the problem is that Nick Jr. Magazine does not have an Author for that article, could I put the Magazine Editor's name then? And how do I go about putting a Citation for the Maury Povich Show since I don't have it in print, only as a video on DVD since it's a TV Show. But have a picture taken with him, can that be used instead? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MACSORG (talk • contribs) 07:26, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
See WP:FOOTNOTES. --Evb-wiki (talk) 13:09, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] In the News - Citations done?

Hello Evb, thank you for helping with that one Citation, and following the example, I was able to do the others too. By the way, Redbook was page 90, not 50. It does look like 50 on the image, so I double-checked the magazine itself and it was page 90.

So we're almost done. Wonderful!!! I'm so glad we're getting somewhere!! But what to do on Maury and Nick Jr.?

--Maury - I did put a citation with info needed such as the name of the show, when it aired, etc.. and linked to the image of myself sitting next to Maury. Is that considered done?

--Nick Jr. - As I wrote above, the page of the article, does not have an Author. I can put the rest of the information in, but whose name do I put down? The Magazine Editor?

MACSORG (talk) 21:41, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

I've never cited a tv episode, but try Template:Cite episode. A web link is not required. The important thing is to provide enough info that it can be checked out. See WP:Verifiability. --Evb-wiki (talk) 21:49, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] In the News - DONE!

Hi Evb. It's all done now! (at least that section is.) I added the Template:Cite episode to the Maury Show. And I was able to find the authors of the Nick Jr. article. Their names were just a few pages back.

So we're done there right? MACSORG (talk) 05:29, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Another Citation?

In the Organization description, it asks for another Citation ""...MACS website as a philanthropic project,[citation needed] where they can send cards..."

Oh gosh... now what? Aren't the Citations in "In the News", enough to prove credibility/notability??

There are 4 magazines, 1 TV News Show (not Maury.. the CBS one in External links) and 1 website article (Firehouse.com on External links).

Why do I need another Citation up above? MACSORG (talk) 05:29, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

You have done well, and have shown both a willingness and ability to learn. Good job. The cite request in the main body of the article is there because the claim that "Hundreds of 'net surfers, schools, service organizations, girls/boys scouts and church groups use the MACS website as a philanthropic project" is the only real/clear assertion of notability in the article, and that statement really needs to be referenced. The mentions in magazines and tv shows are not substantive, but mere mentions in broader "help the children" contexts.
The notability guidelines for organizations says: "A company, corporation, organization, team, religion, group, product, or service is notable if it has been the subject of coverage in secondary sources. Such sources must be reliable, and independent of the subject. The depth of coverage of the subject by the source must be considered. If the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent sources should be cited to establish notability. Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability."
If the above claim of notability can be verified, then the {{notability}} template at the top of the page can be removed. Thanks for your hard work. --Evb-wiki (talk) 13:33, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi Evb... thank you!!! I try to learn as much as I can... but Wikipedia was much harder than I thought.. LOL!!!

Well, as far as the Citation for that paragraph goes... did you watch the WCCO-CBS News Story?? http://wcco.com/topstories/Make.A.Child.2.363867.html Both the text and the video about Logan, shows that he received mail from tons of people around the US., even from Ireland and Australia.

If that's not sufficient, then we might as well take the page down because I do not have anything in MEDIA PRINT that says what you need. I have hundreds of people who have been visiting my website and sending mail to the kids for almost 10 years. I have a Mailing List with about 2,000 subscribers, I have tons of emails from teachers, girl/boys scouts, and also my Testimonials page http://www.makeachildsmile.org/testimonials.shtml

But not in MEDIA print.

A local newspaper from the city where I live, did a story on the website, which is coming out this Christmas Day. I don't know what they wrote until I see it, they just interviewed me over the phone and sent a photographer here. So I cannot tell you if the article will have what you need until Dec 25th.

Kathy Lee Gifford is a TV Personality, and a while ago, added my website as a "Charity of the Month" on her website. The text there is the same as I wrote here. http://www.kathieleegifford.com/lamb04/charity/macs.php

And what about THIS page? http://www.makeachildsmile.org/media/news_baldwin.shtml Read the LAST paragraph!! I can quote them here since I have the Newspaper's name and the Reporter who wrote the Article, but I do not have a REAL image copy of the newspaper. The link will have to be to THAT page.

Thanks! MACSORG (talk) 21:04, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Hello?? Evb?? Knock-Knock... Where are you??

The December 25th newspaper Article came out. It's really nice, they did a good job, BUT, they made a lot of mistakes by naming my website "Making Children Smile" (correct is Make A Child Smile) and gave the URL as www.makingchildrensmile.org (which doesn't even exist). Aaaargh!! I was so upset!!

So I will not be using that article as a Citation.

So please let me know if I can use the other sources I mentioned above (Kathy Lee Gifford's website or the The Baldwin Bulletin Newspaper - which is just the text on my website, not the paper itself or their own website)

Since there is a Template to Cite Web, we're ok then right? It doesn't NEED to be in Print always then. Correct?

Puleeeze let me know... I can't wait until this is over and the page is done so I can brag to everyone on the Make A Child Smile Newsletter that we're honored to be part of Wikipedia!!!!

MACSORG (talk) 10:52, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Are we ever going to finish this?? Have been waiting for a reply from Evb since Dec 23rd. MACSORG (talk) 15:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)