User talk:Maikeli/archive/2006
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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
The following is my archive talk page for 2006 which you are welcome to look through but please do not add to or change.
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Welcome! Hello, Maikeli/archive/2006, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place Btw, I loved your article on Turaga na Rasau. As a completely ignorant reader, tho, there were some things that I wanted to know right at the start, like which country this refers to (OK, I found refs to Fuji, but lower down). Also, I didn't understand whether Lomaloma Tikina was a place, a people, or something else. Any chance you could add these details in the introductory paragraph? And any help you can give throughout the article on words like Roko Tui Bau will be gratefully read by this Wikipedian at least! If you want to reply to any of this, I will find it here or here. Many thanks, and happy editing! JackyR 03:02, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
Mere Tusalalothis item has relivance as to the connection the family has with the Turaga Na Rasau Title. at the time the marriage to Ratu keni signified the joining of two tribes, her details and family background are relievant to the article and to the people of Lomaloma and their history. Thank you Maikeli Thank you!Bula Maikeli! Thank you so much for your warm words. It's always heartwarming to find that somebody has noticed and appreciated the time I've put into this project. I've found your own writings about Fijian chiefs to be very interesting, and you've already filled in quite a few gaps that lacked information in any reference books I could find. Thank you so much for that! I'm so glad you're active on Wikipedia. One of the things that I love about Wikipedia is that all of us can pool our knowledge, bringing everybody's expertise together in one place. Thanks once again for your kind words. I really enjoy working with you. David Cannon 23:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC) abuses toward me please notefrom discussion page with david cannon FROM MAIKELI Bula David Merry Christmas and a happy New Year, please ask your sub editor xork1000 to no longer make defamtory remarks toward me and remain objective in critisms and at least have the courage to identify him or herself. objectivity is exactly the issue here - he has none - he is writing about his own relatives. I have a right to my anononimity (this has nothing to do with Mr. Benefield, i happen to live in a dictatorship where people are beaten up by the military for expressing their opinion) --Xorkl000 09:04, 27 December 2006 (UTC) wikipedia I thought of as an objective place with sensible individuals who are fair minded not individuals who make unfounded and untrue comments, my contributions are not drivel and I am not walking around blowing my own horn. I stand by both statements. His work is drivel, this is obvious when you read it. He does not have objective distance from the subject matter (they are all his relatives). This is bad form both from a Fijian cultural perspective and the policies of Wikipedia --Xorkl000 09:04, 27 December 2006 (UTC) the research is cumilation of research done by Ratu Viliame Fonolahi (turaga na Rasau now deceased), Ratu David Toganivalu (Turaga Na Masau from Bau now also deceased, RatuIvan Keni (Ratu Viliame's son), and Ratu Keni Naulumatua (Jnr and current Rasau)and Myself it is 50 years worht of research with great effort and difficulty. There you go, he's admitted it - the articles are in clear violation of WP:NOR and WP:V, they need to be sent to WP:AFD immediately. If I were to do this my objectivity would be questioned, can i ask you to start this process. --Xorkl000 09:04, 27 December 2006 (UTC) I hope I would be treated with more fairness and respect I see no evidence that he deserves any. His work is of poor quality, he has no understanding of how this place works (nor has any shown any desire to increase his understanding). I have met this person in the flesh, he really is an incredibly stupid individual - there is really nothing we can do for people like this. --Xorkl000 09:04, 27 December 2006 (UTC) FROM MAIKELI
thank you for your input, I am having trouble with knowing how to format things right using wikipedia and I am learning I am sorry if I put you out but as I said earlier thank you for your help in steering me right, I would not have presented in that format to my English teacher if I were studing but those days are long gone and I only get to work on the article in my spare time, I am still learning to get used to using wikipedia. as for Xork1000 I am not interested in getting into a war on words my point simply is if he is going to talk big then identify himself and do not hide behind and alias, secondly at least be diplomatic about his criticism as educated men we should at least extend eachother that courtesy. the spelling and grammar of the above statement (and everything else he has written) make me wonder how includes himself in the category of "educated men" --Xorkl000 09:19, 27 December 2006 (UTC) again I do not wish to bother you any longer on the topic, I will make an effort to go back through my resource material as well as improving the articles I have contributed, again I am limited in time and I hope you would be understanding in that regard. thank you once again for your effort David tobe honest and give me constructive feedback. Vinaka Maikeli Your contributionsHi there! I would have preferred not to get involved in the war of words between you and Xork. I am not Fijian and cannot judge the accuracy of what you write; that's partly why I asked him to review it. Now, can you listen for a moment - and try not to take what I'm saying too personally? While Xork may have said some things a lot more strongly than I would, I can understand his frustration. As an English teacher who tutors foreign immigrants, I have to tell you that if one of my students presented me with an essay like one of your articles, I'd hit the roof. Your punctuation is absolutely random at best, your text is full of typos large numbers of words are just run together. Your information tends to be rambling and disorganized. I cannot always clean up what you have written, because some if it is too scrambled to decipher. So what can we do about it? Please make the effort to write in paragraphs, to spell and punctuate correctly, to organize your information logically, and to substantiate what you've written with sources and/or references. If you will do that, then - and only then - will I ask Xork to consider toning down his rhetoric. There is nothing personal about what I've written. This is just common-sense policy. David Cannon 06:54, 27 December 2006 (UTC) FROM MAIKELIBula David thank you for your input, I am having trouble with knowing how to format things right using wikipedia and I am learning I am sorry if I put you out but as I said earlier thank you for your help in steering me right, I would not have presented in that format to my English teacher if I were studing but those days are long gone and I only get to work on the article in my spare time, I am still learning to get used to using wikipedia. as for Xork1000 I am not interested in getting into a war on words my point simply is if he is going to talk big then identify himself and do not hide behind and alias, secondly at least be diplomatic about his criticism as educated men we should at least extend eachother that courtesy. again I do not wish to bother you any longer on the topic, I will make an effort to go back through my resource material as well as improving the articles I have contributed, again I am limited in time and I hope you would be understanding in that regard. thank you once again for your effort David tobe honest and give me constructive feedback. Vinaka Maikeli
below my earlier post to David: FROM MAIKELI Bula David Merry Christmas and a happy New Year, please ask your sub editor xork1000 to no longer make defamtory remarks toward me and remain objective in critisms and at least have the courage to identify him or herself. wikipedia I thought of as an objective place with sensible individuals who are fair minded not individuals who make unfounded and untrue comments, my contributions are not drivel and I am not walking around blowing my own horn. the research is cumilation of research done by Ratu Viliame Fonolahi (turaga na Rasau now deceased), Ratu David Toganivalu (Turaga Na Masau from Bau now also deceased, RatuIvan Keni (Ratu Viliame's son), and Ratu Keni Naulumatua (Jnr and current Rasau)and Myself it is 50 years worht of research with great effort and difficulty. I hope I would be treated with more fairness and respect Malo Maikeli From xorkl000Bula Vinaka Xork1000
I must ask before you make defamatory comments toward me ensure you have your facts straight and at least have the courage to show your true identity.
my research is a cumilation of research done with Ratu Viliame Fonolahi Turaga na Rasua now deceased, Ratu Tevita Toganivalu Turaga Na masau ( Bau), Ratu Ivan Keni (Ratu Viliame son), Ratu Keni Naumumatua (Jnr)and it is a cumilation of research over the last 50 years.
while it is a free world to express as you please and I respect that, but please insure you remain objective in your comments to articles and to the contributers.
From xorkl000 (part deux)Bula Xork1000 if you have constructive disagreements on topics I have contributed to please advise me and I will try use that critisms to improve content or find and answer to concerns. I agree my Radio and TV presence was a bit so so but the media industry is a growing one and you find people have to make the mistakes and others will come later to improve on.I did have one or two good moments though...well at least I hope.
I for many years was raised very european oriented and when later in life I discovered and learned and am still learning my Fijian ties as I am Vasu, I may have been guilty of boast here and there and as I mature that part of my character I am trying to change and improve in and learn more humility, but I have tryed to make sure that my words are true and can be backed up if my presence offended you then I am sorry.
but I will continue to be who I am and will try to improve my character, my life and the lives of those around me in whatever little way I can but its lifetime process and I am trying, you should learn to be bit fairer in your assesments of others.
anyway Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
FROM MAIKELIBula Xork1000 I thought maybe you would be of stronger character and at least have the nerve to identify yourself and comment fairly instead you have hurled further insults rather disappointing.
but its a free world if you have the courage say it to my face if not that it shows your true character.
anyway do what you have to do and let the chips fall where they may. all the best Malo Maikeli AFDHello again. I'll compromise. I'll list several of your articles on AFD, but will not vote myself. I'll let other Wikipedians make up their own minds about them. It will also give you the opportunity to express your own point of view, explain why they shouldn't be deleted, etc. I have no wish to get involved in a personal quarrel between you and anybody else, but as an administrator, I have the responsibility of upholding Wikipedia policy and rules. Original research is not allowed; everything must be verifiable - in other words, linked to an external source that other Wikipedians can access. Failing that, I cannot save your articles. Sorry. David Cannon 10:35, 27 December 2006 (UTC) forget it daveI don't need right now I'll delete it myself rtaher then have unfair and biased people redicule years of hard work forget it dave forget it hope you and your sub editor have a nice life Maikeli Your edit to Turaga na RasauYour recent edit to Turaga na Rasau (diff) was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to recognize and repair vandalism to Wikipedia articles. If the bot reverted a legitimate edit, please accept my humble creator's apologies – if you bring it to the attention of the bot's owner, we may be able to improve its behavior. Click here for frequently asked questions about the bot and this warning. // AntiVandalBot 10:46, 27 December 2006 (UTC) Re: Forget it daveMaikeli, I'm beginning to lose patience here. If your articles really are the result of years of hard word, as you say they are, what have you got to fear from a group of Wikipedians looking at the articles and deciding, as a group, whether they should be removed or whether they are redeemable. With you saying that your articles are well-researched, and Xork saying they are not, the fairest thing I can do as an administrator is to lay the matter before a neutral panel (in this case, the wikipedia community as a whole) and let them decide. I intend to do that. Most of the people manning AFD have had nothing to do with YOU, ME, or XORKL000 and therefore are unlikely to be "unfair" or "biased" as you allege - that's a serious charge to make, by the way. Update: in the course of writing this, I see you have tried to delete one of your own articles. I'm sorry, but you can't do that. Only administrators can delete articles - and only after getting consensus on AFD. David Cannon 10:59, 27 December 2006 (UTC) FROM MAIKELIDave I am getting insulted and my personal character slandered its beyond the article and you condone this type of talk from you editors and your getting impatient with me. my point is I do not deserve to be unfairly insulted and slandered, I would prefer just withdraw all my contributions and leave it be. to much crap going on for me to go through this so if I may remove all my work and research and go about my own business rather then put up with this. then everybody is happy and can get on with what I need without this dis-respect my contribution is of no great consequence so please let me be on my way and allow me to remove all my work Maikeli
As far as I'm concerned, the issue is whether your articles comply with Wikipedia's policies or not. There is nothing personal in this at all. David Cannon 11:23, 27 December 2006 (UTC) Keni NaulumatuaKeni Naulumatua has been nominated for deletion. Do you have some reference sources that can be used to support the information written at the article?--Kevin Murray 11:37, 27 December 2006 (UTC) Before I wrote the above, I didn't see that you are having a bad time with the process. This can be frustrating and seem arbitrary. The reason I contacted you is that my "mission" is to help contributors perserve meaningful articles such as yours. Please understand that there are other people at Wikipedia who will support you and help you through the process. I believe that you were mislead by another editor who told you that you must supply online links to your resources. I don't believe this to be true. Please look at Wikipedia:Notability. Good luck and let me know whether I can help. --Kevin Murray 11:52, 27 December 2006 (UTC) Thanks Mr Murraymy research and work is true as I am not able always get on the net and work on it more and also I am still learning how format articles on Wikipedia it is difficult. however if it is deleted or not it still remains true. anyway let the community decide on wikipedia Maikeli Please note the followingthe "Ai Cavuti vaka tikina" lists the "Turaga na Ravunisa" wrongly as when it was written there was a period between when Ratu Viliam Fonolahi died and then when Ratu Keni was then nominated by the Vanua of LOMALOMA THE LAU PROVINCIAL COUNCIL AND THE FIJIAN AFFAIRS BOARD WHO HAVE RECORDS AND WILL CONFIRM THIS, THIS IS A LONG ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS AND REQUIRES THE SIGNTURES OF ALL THE CHIEFLY FAMILY OF VALELEVU OF LOMALOMA TIKINA this process has already been completed. and the traditional installation would have taken place this year but current political events have changed this and next year looks like a more likely period. the Ravunisa and the Tribe are subjects of Lomaloma Tikina traditionally leadership of the Tikina was nevr their role records at FAB will show that the Yavusa Buca is subject to the leadership of the Turaga Na Rasau. There are also early records that are kept by the Fijian affairs board also records in the "Au vola ni kawa bula" (the book holds all the records of titles and title holders and villages and their various families) at the Fijian affairs board which will confirm the soverenty of the "Turaga Na Rasau" please contact them direct before considering this and related articles for deletion. Actually all titles and articles on Fiji should be confirmed by the FAB (Fijian Affairs Board) and the variuos provincial councils to which they belong. many people entering information regarding Fijian traditional titles and history on wikipedia do not have expressed permission of the provinicial councils and the Fijian affairs board and therefore should all be re-considered and reviewed pending the endorsement of the respective councils and Tikinas to which this history and information belongs and it should be endorsed by the Great Council of Chiefs not just of one or two books written by individuals or one or two independant sources My endorsement comes from the current Turaga Na Rasau who has been endorsed and selected by the Tikina of Lomaloma which has the endorsement of the Lau Provincial Council which has the endorsement of the Fijian Affairs Board, authorites that exist now who have collected definative information over the last 100 years and are traditionally and Nationally recognised Bodies Vinaka Maikeli Thank you FROM USER MAIKELI Please reviewPlease read and review further discussions between Xork1000 also see David Cannons comment regarding my articles: 2. Now, the other issue. I have started the process of listing several of User:Maikeli's contributions on AFD. I've already listed Turaga na Ravunisa and will list Turaga na Rasau and possibly several others before the night is out. I think there's a 95 percent certainty that his incoherent ramblings will be gone by next week. David Cannon 10:22, 27 December 2006 (UTC) good, i've added my FJD 0.02 already. I happen to think that Turaga na Ravunisa should stay, but the rest need to go --Xorkl000 13:18, 27 December 2006 (UTC) You're most welcome. I think the Keni Naulumatua II article should be listed also, so I'll do that. BTW, if you need any more help with your archiving, just let me know:-) David Cannon 00:15, 28 December 2006 (UTC) Xork1000 please note the following: "Ai Cavuti vaka tikina" lists the "Turaga na Ravunisa" wrongly as when it was written there was a period between when Ratu Viliam Fonolahi died and then when Ratu Keni was then nominated by the Vanua of LOMALOMA THE LAU PROVINCIAL COUNCIL AND THE FIJIAN AFFAIRS BOARD WHO HAVE RECORDS AND WILL CONFIRM THIS, THIS IS A LONG ADMINISTRATIVE PROCESS AND REQUIRES THE SIGNTURES OF ALL THE CHIEFLY FAMILY OF VALELEVU OF LOMALOMA TIKINA this process has already been completed. and the traditional installation would have taken place this year but current political events have changed this and next year looks like a more likely period. there are also early records that are kept by the Fijian affairs board also records in the "Au vola ni kawa bula" (the book holds all the records of titles and title holders and villages and their various families) at the Fijian affairs board which will confirm the soverenty of the "Turaga Na Rasau" please contact them direct before considering this and related articles for deletion. Actually all titles and articles on Fiji should be confirmed by the FAB (Fijian Affairs Board) and the variuos provincial councils to which they belong. many people entering information regarding Fijian traditional titles and history on wikipedia do not have expressed permission of the provinicial councils and the Fijian affairs board and therefore should all be re-considered and reviewed pending the endorsement of the respective councils and Tikinas to which this history and information belongs and it should be endorsed by the Great Council of Chiefs not just of one or two books written by individuals or one or two independant sources What are your credetals to comment on this subject?? Maikeli err ... i don't need credentials. I'm not the one doing original research or writing unverifiable articles. Credentials are irrelevant here, only thing that matters are the policies and rules of wikipedia. If you are not willing to follow them perhaps you need so take your work elsewhere. --Xorkl000 01:02, 28 December 2006 (UTC) Bula I am afraid motive and credentials on what gives you the right to ridicule and belittle me and the title of the Turaga Na Rasau and related articles is relivent. You have put me and my articles under questioning and scrutiny and I feel since you are a key source on Fiji related topics and traditional and historic matters, you should give your credentials if your information and input is to be trusted and relied upon by wikipedia. You owe that to your fellow countrymen of which I am one regardless of your hate and distain for me personally. what are your motives Xork1000, mine I have clearly stated and I am not hiding behind an alias, as for documentation there is a considerable sum to digitise from Suva and from the FAB and the Au Vola Ni Kawa Bula and I will get to that. but who are you to comment so freely and dis-respectfully toward me and my Vanua and Orall history of my people. Malo Maikeli Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Xorkl000" credentials?err ... i don't need credentials. I'm not the one doing original research or writing unverifiable articles. Credentials are irrelevant here, only thing that matters are the policies and rules of wikipedia. If you are not willing to follow them perhaps you need so take your work elsewhere. And while were on the subject, what are your credentials? You can't even spell Ai vola ni kawa bula properly, so forgive me if I wonder about how you've become an authority on the subject. --Xorkl000 02:29, 28 December 2006 (UTC) My CredentialsI firstly have been given authority by the current Turaga Na Rasau who is put in place by the Vanua of Lomaloma which is endorsed by the Lau Provincial council which is endorsed by the Fijian Affairs board, which is recognised Fijian institution.
he and he alone is allowed to access confidential files on Lomaloma history title holders and birth records of all in the Tikina of Lomaloma contained and compiled by the Fijian affairs board over the last century.
documents of which I KNOW NEED TO GET AUTHORITY TO DIGITISE because of the current dispute raised by you and David this will take me time because I work in the western side of Fiji and need to travel to Suva and then ungo the long process of getting forms and paper work and then the permission to allow them to viewed in the public domain this wil be a long process.
as my ability to compile articles correctly I need help and guidance as I am having trouble to format it right on wikipedia, help I thought I would get from David but he has abviously trying give me the flick also.
as for my spelling error you were right and thank for the correction.(Ai not Au) I do not have a degree in Anthropology if thats what you are looking for, but I have had considerable experience in Management, Protocol Management as well as Media, my qualifications are sales and Marketing and soldiering funnily enough, with basic training as an intern minister with regard to bible history.
please readDavid Cannons comment on Ratu Keni Naulumatua II: Keni Naulumatua II Keni Naulumatua II (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) I can find no credible references to this individual outside of wikipedia. No websites, books, or newspapers that I know of mention him, and no Fijian individual I have consulted - apart from the primary author of the article - has ever heard of him. I suspect this article may constitute original research. David Cannon 00:19, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Keni_Naulumatua_II" Bula to you as wellI am afraid motive and credentials on what gives you the right to ridicule and belittle me and the title of the Turaga Na Rasau and related articles is relivent.
You have put me and my articles under questioning and scrutiny and I feel since you are a key source on Fiji related topics and traditional and historic matters, you should give your credentials if your information and input is to be trusted and relied upon by wikipedia. You owe that to your fellow countrymen of which I am one regardless of your hate and distain for me personally.
what are your motives Xork1000, mine I have clearly stated and I am not hiding behind an alias, as for documentation there is a considerable sum to digitise from Suva and from the FAB and the Au Vola Ni Kawa Bula and I will get to that.
but who are you to comment so freely and dis-respectfully toward me and my Vanua and Orall history of my people.
Scanning DocumentsWhy don't you recontact me when you have the documents scanned and ready to go, and give me an email address where I can contact you directly. Talk to you soon. --Kevin Murray 22:54, 29 December 2006 (UTC) Perhaps a sourceYou probably already know this, but if you can have access to JSTOR database, this article of Arthur Maurice Hocart could help you in your reasearch about the Rasau. [[1]] It seems that Keni Naulumatua made for him an account of the origin of the Rasau. Good luck and merry new year. Nevers Thank You and happy, prosperous New Year MB 21:41, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
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