User talk:Mai-Sachme

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Hello, Mai-Sachme, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} after the question on your talk page. Again, welcome! 

Griasti--Martin Se 09:32, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Isarco

Hi, regarding the move of Eisack to Isarco by Rex Germanus, this is actually correct. There are more Italian-speakers along this river. Cheers, Icsunonove 00:51, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

You're right! Mai-Sachme 15:07, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Passeiertal/Val Passiria

Hi, I replied on Talk:Val Passiria.--Supparluca 06:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I think you have to go to the trouble of amending the proposal both on the talk page, and WP:RM, and you may want to tell the supporters so the closing admin has a chance to see you've done so. You don't need a new proposal; these things happen. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:53, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi Mai-Sachme, I've included my opinion. If Brittanica gives Passiria, why don't we simply put the page at Passiria Valley? That or maybe Passiria-Passeier Valley (Septentrionals, I don't care if you don't like double-names. hah! :) The local-language method was really meant for smaller/obscure place names. More known places like Stelvio, Passiria, Bolzano, Brenner, should be what they are referenced as in Brittanica, et al. Anyway, cya. Icsunonove 20:55, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ladin

I'm sorry my friend, but you do not have a clue. If you really want to discuss the history here, let me know. take care, Icsunonove 01:21, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

You are absolutely correct about the pockets of Germanic speakers in Trentino; and that cultural aspect of Trentino is as important as any other little bit of history in the province. The point I was making with Trentino is it doesn't have the same multi-ethnic/lingual situation as Bolzano-Bozen has, so it is more of a mute case. But I hope you understand that the Ladin languages are the root languages of Trentino-Alto Adige. They go from Switzerland (Romansch), Friulian to Trentino-Alto Adige (Ladin). Knowing Nones I can easily understand these other languages, because they are all the related original Latin of these Eastern Alps, below the Alpine waterline. This type of language is spoken all over Trentino, they just are not aware it is actually the same thing a Ladin. Anyway, on to a more interesting topic. You mention your family is Italian and German, where are you from. Mostly from BZ? Icsunonove 06:10, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Knowing Nones you can understand all ladin laguages? Interesting...because speakers of Ladin can't understand Furlan (that's what a Ladin friend of mine told me - they have even problems to understand the dialect from the next valley :-). And you're logically allowed to have your own theories about the Ladin language, I just have to say that your viewpoint is not conform with the linguistic science. And to my familiar background: My father is from Tramin, my mother from Mezzolombardo. Mai-Sachme 15:25, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, I can't understand Romansch or Friulian perfectly of course. :P~~ However, for an average level of communication it is very, very similar. When in Switzerland I thought they were speaking Nones, in fact! o_O For example, the language in Val di Sole is different than Val di Non, and the language even varies within the Valleys from town to town. Definitely you won't understand everything; I think your friend was being a little bit dramatic to say he can't understand Furlan at all. :-) You say my viewpoint doesn't conform with the linguistic science? Are you absolutely sure in that claim? I've spoken with quite a few university researchers that say 1) Nones is in the Ladin family, and 2) all these languages are of a language group whose origins stretch from Switzerland to Friuli-Venezia Giulia, from the Alpine border with Austria down to the south of Trentino. Anyway, I go through Mezzolombardo often when I visit Italy. We of course get plenty of wine in the US from your mom's neighbors in Mezzocorona. :) Anyway, nice areas your family is from; that we should at least be able to agree on... hah! Icsunonove 18:43, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
  • I just did a quick Google search; here are a few links you can study a bit [1][2]. Maybe it does conform to the linguistic science afterall. :P Anyway, I'm curious now what they speak in Mezzolombardo? take care. Icsunonove 18:47, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Hello Mai-Sachme, just curious if you had anytime to look at those links, and some opinions following my last two messages to you. regards, Icsunonove 21:46, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, but I had no time for wikipedia-discussions last week. I looked at those links and my English is much to bad to debate at a certain level about linguistic issues, so I try to cut a long story short: Certainly there are no hard language borders, especially in the romance-speaking area of Europe, that's what we call a dialect continuum. At a certain point, when a dialect seems to be too deviant from the literary language, we call this dialect language (naturally these terms are very spongy and controversal). In fact, when we differ language and dialect, we do this a little bit arbitrarily, but (especially in Europe) we respect historic borderlines and try to consider what speakers of a language/dialect think themselves. As far as I know Ladins from the Dolomites don't indentify themselves as Italians, unlike the nonesi. About strictly linguistic criteria I can't say too much, because I'm no native speaker, but it should have some rational reasons why most of the books don't include Nones in the rhaeto-romanic group. But consider that the term Ladin is almost exclusively used for the language spoken in the Dolomites and that only Ladins from the Dolomites are recognized as a linguistic minority (probably also due to rational reasons ;-). Mai-Sachme 17:05, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Mai-Sachme, no problem, thanks for getting around to a reply. Anyway, I think you make one major mistake here, you say "Ladins from the Dolomites don't identify themselves as Italians, unlike the nonesi". You are speaking for a lot of people with one sentence, you know? :-) Also, the general trend you describe is common throughout Italy: Venetians, Sicilians, etc. often consider themselves first locally, and Italian second. One major reason why Ladin in Bolzano is recognized as a linguistic minority is politics, and you should know there is nothing especially rational about that. A reason why you may not find Nones, Solardo, etc. listed in the Rhaeto-Romance group references you've found is simply that all these languages are small, there can't be more than 500,000 people in the World that speak them, and it is only recently that there is more research. You may also ask Tridentinus, and he will say as well that a majority of the people who speak Ladino in Trentino simply are not aware it is a language; they think it is a dialect of Standard Italian. If you take two minutes to read the information on that one professor's page you will understand that Nones is in the same language group. That book I gave you a link to also lists Nones as a dialect of Ladin. Anyway, you can look here too it:Nones. I'll say it once more: When I hear people speak Romansch, Ladin, Friulian, and the languages in Trentino, they all sound too familiar. I don't know why this is so unbelievable. :-) Anyhow, like I said before, I'm more interested now what local-languages they speak around Mezzolombardo and Mezzocorona. take care, and good talking to you. Icsunonove 23:48, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] South Tyrol

hello there Mai-Sachme, you once voted and showed interest on the topic of South Tyrol. Certain Italian users just can't seem to give the topic a rest and had the article moved with a sham vote to the Italian name. I am calling for that vote to be annulled or at least extended so that more can vote and the result be representative. Drop by the talk page or drop me a message if you would like to share your thoughts, I am interested in hearing from you. sincerely Gryffindor 04:27, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mezzolombardo

I made some updates to this page, Tramin is already in pretty good shape. See if I have things right. The German is Welschmetz? later, Icsunonove 01:01, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes it's Welschmetz :-), but this name is now obsolete. Mai-Sachme 08:04, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Maybe we can leave it anyway? Or list it as archaic? I find it interesting at least capturing the historical names in the town articles. I was trying to add Nones names to the towns in Val di Non, like Coredo, Fondo, etc. Icsunonove 21:44, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Better list it as archaic. Mai-Sachme 16:41, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Done! :-) Icsunonove 23:49, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] South Tyrol - proposal for disambiguation

Hello, I submitted a possible new disambiguation page for the term South Tyrol:

South Tyrol (German: Südtirol) may refer to:

This proposal wass posted on the talk page of Province of Bolzano-Bozen and has already ignited an interesting debate. You are very welcome to submit your own opinion, too. Thank you in advance. Best regards, FrancescoMazzucotelli 00:41, 5 November 2007 (UTC)