Talk:Mah Nà Mah Nà

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Contents

[edit] First discussion

The video capture is most probably with Swedish subtitles (second guesses are Danish, Norwegian and Finnish, but definitely not German).

Does the video capture really have subtitles? =S Since it's just meaningless, sounds, I don't think there would be a need for subtitles.

There is some dialog from Kermit and Statler & Waldorf at the end of the sketch.

Finnish is completely unlike any of Swedish, Danish, Norwegian or even German. In fact, German is much more like Swedish, Danish or Norwegian than Finnish is. Just because Finland and Sweden are neighbouring countries and share centuries of common history doesn't mean their languages are similar. Finnish is not even an Indo-European language! Unfortunately, the link in the article is broken, so I can't view the video myself to identify the language. — JIP | Talk 07:21, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
Here's a video of it "Fragan ar"="The question is"; "Till er"="It's for you". Those are some bits from it. Can you tell what language it is? --Max 09:22, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
It is swedish. (Jk80 23:34, 4 March 2006 (UTC))
Yes definitely Swedish. One way of knowing it's Swedish is that they use the letters ä and ö. If it was Danish or Norweigan they'd use æ and ø instead. (So if they would have used æ and ø it would have to have been another language, for example Danish or Norweigan.) Å is used in all three languages. /Jiiimbooh 23:44, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Of course Finnish has Ä, Ö and Å, too...

Anyone know which episode of The Muppet Show it was on? JP Godfrey 17:35, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

The very first episode in the first season.

Where is this Cake cover? Was it ever released? Nick Douglas 16:06, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

  • The Cake cover is on their children's album For the Kids. It's widely available. --LostLeviathan 00:40, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] best ever?

"The alt.tv.muppets FAQ considers "Mahna Mahna" to be the best Muppet sketch ever." All right, maybe this is a silly question, but how does the FAQ have an opinion? It's a list of questions and answers. Doesn't the author(s) of the FAQ actually form the opinion? -FZ 21:22, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I reworded that bit and added a link to the FAQ. Jon the Geek 16:43, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dr Pepper

Should there be some mention of Diet Cherry Vanilla Dr Pepper's TV ad "Date" [1], where the Muppet's song is used? DevastatorIIC July 3, 2005 05:13 (UTC)

Um. It's already included. Feel free to add more detail to that bullet, though. Jon the Geek July 4, 2005 04:00 (UTC)

[edit] Cultural References

This section is getting cluttered up...WP:NOT. I'm trimming it down a bit. --Stlemur 13:37, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Does this "guy" have a name?

That hairy "Mah na mah na" character had a sort of "come-back" in 2002! I've seen him in "Bert & Ernie's Word Play" and I wonder whether he really has a name. Does anyone know that? -andy 80.129.103.60 00:40, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

IMDB lists 'Mahna Mahna' as one of the characters Jim Henson played. (Jk80 23:34, 4 March 2006 (UTC))
  • originally the character had no name, but he was later called 'Mahna Mahna'. However, as the character evolved on Sesame Street it was given the name Bip Bipadotta. 71.111.63.224 08:57, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Alternate spellings

While the title of the song is often misspelled and spelled differently, I think the current presentation is the wrong way to go about it... Alternate titles it's been released under should be mentioned in the introduction, and misspellings shouldn't be mentioned at all; all variant spellings should get redirects to this page, which should be titled with the original title. --Stlemur 10:14, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

●The names of the song are mentioned in the introductory paragraph and the following, chronological paragraphs. Each version is listed, hopefully in time-order, with the official name it was released under. That doesn't feel wrong. Grouping all/both official names up-front might be more confusing, because both of the names do not apply equally to both variations.
●I don't think anyone would want to group ALL of the spellings and misspellings up-front. It would be completely boggling -- it would look like this: "Mah Nà Mah Nà", a.k.a. "Mahna Mahna", often guessed as "Ma Na Ma Na", "Mana Mana", "Manamana", "Mah Na Mah Na", "Mahna Mahna", "Mahnamahna", "Ma Nah Ma Nah", "Manah Manah", "Manahmanah", "Man na man na", "Manna manna", "Mannamanna", "M na m na", "Mna Mna", "MnaMna", "Manamanah", "Manahmana", "Mnah Mnah", "MnahMnah", "Munnah Munnah", "Mah-Na-Mah-Na", "Mah-Na Mah-Na", "Mnah-Mnah", ... . It's Mahna-Mahniacal.
●Maybe my bolding is wrong. I bolded the first mention of the original name and the first mention of the one direct variation. (Is that the right way?) I did not bold the distinct names of derivative works ("Mais Non, Mais Non").
●The only exception to time-order is the TITLE of the article, which is a de-accented version of the original. Maybe the article need to be moved (see below).
●Most alternate/errant spellings already had redirects, or now have them. (The top five anyway). I didn't want to glut with redirects for every variation. The less-common spellings can find this page via the Search function, because of the presence of the misspellings! on the searchable content this page.
●The misspellings ARE significant because of the sheer number of people using them (on the www )to comment on the song or express interest in it. In usage, the misspellings far outnumber the correct spellings. The original version ("Mah Nà Mah Nà" and "Mah Na Mah Na", counted together by Google) only gets 60,800 mentions. The Muppets' slightly-contracted version, "Mahna Mahna", gets 160,000 mentions, 2.5x as many. Even the spurious further contraction to "Mahnamahna", presumably inspired by the run-together pronounciation, gets 69,000 mentions, already 13% more than the original. Guessers drop the unnecessary silent "H". "Ma Na Ma Na", "Mana Mana", and "Manamana" together get 1,262,100 mentions, TWENTY TIMES as many as the original spellings.
●Having all of the common misspellings together is somewhat significant as it is informative about the song. The aggregate numbers (not totaled on the page) are significant. For example, a Google search on "Lucy in the Sky", another song which attracts a lot of commentary and some more serious controversy as well, returns only 1,890,000 references.
Whiner01 18:37, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Time to move?

●The article title was apparently supposed to be the title that the song debuted under, in order to respect the author's creation AND to make the first entry in the chronology match up with the title. I was surprised to discover that the original published title was not "Mah Na Mah Na" but "Mah Nà Mah Nà". As long as the article is titled "Mah Na Mah Na", the introductory paragraph contradicts by introducing "Mah Nà Mah Nà" as the name. Anyone seeing this disparity should be wondering whether the article should be moved to "Mah Nà Mah Nà" (which is currently a redirect page). Whiner01 18:37, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Done deal. Stlemur moved the page. I jumped on the 20 redirect pages, as they all had become double redirects. (Double-redirects are advisable to fix, so i'll sign my 'name' to it.) Whiner01 06:36, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "How Do You Do?"

Think about "Mah Nà Mah Nà" makes me recall another song that has some similarities: "How Do You Do?" by Mouth and MacNeal. It similarly uses alternating male and female vocals (but they use similar melodies and have alternating instrumental accompaniment styles). "How Do You Do?" has a lot of real words, but it incorporates some nonsense words, which also happen to be similar: "nananana"... or "nana nana" or "na na na na". (A similar spelling problem too.) "How Do You Do?" doesn't include improvisational interpolations like "Mah Nà Mah Nà". Just wondering if they are linked by inspiration or just their coincidental similarities. Whiner01 19:12, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External links and copyright

The page currently has a link to an of MP3 of the Muppets version of the song. The site it is contained on is not an official Muppets site, and the song should still be under copyright. This link must be removed unless someone can ascertain that the copyright holder has either given permission for the song to be used in that way or released it into the public domain. --LostLeviathan 00:35, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Not about the mp3 but continuing on about copyright and external links, so I changed the heading... The "original sauna scene" link was no longer valid, so I removed it. For the other two, the video with Swedish subtitles and also the Flurl link of Svezia, inferno e paradiso, I've left those in... either they're both in or both out, imho. (If someone thinks they should both be out for copyright infringement, go for it.) I don't know why Wikipedia won't let me login right now, btw. Very frustrating. --72.65.46.29 (talk) 14:28, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Manama

It's simply not a relevant link for the article. We can't link to everything that sounds vaguely like "Mah Nà Mah Nà". --Stlemur 20:33, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

In an article entirely devoted to nonsensical lyrics in various spellings, "we" can link to a real town, and be it only to demonstrate that the song is not about the existing place. --Matthead 00:30, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
But the various spellings are all ones used in the topic of the article. The song lyrics are also not Panama, Ghana, banana, Fatima, or Orange Shasta--no reason to link to what something isn't. Do people actually think the song is about Bahrain, or are we straying into the realm of straw men and FUD? DMacks 00:44, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The song & women (ahem) engaged in love

Okay, I've looked at the material under the "External links", & am convinced that the claim this song first appeared in a soft-core porn film can be verified, yet I'm still unconvinced that this was played under a lesbian BDSM scene. I have three reasons for this:

  1. This sounds too much like urban folklore;
  2. No one appears to have actually viewed this movie in the last 30 years, & the film is currently unobtainable in any form (although numerous copies of the soundtrack exist); &
  3. This is not music I would normally associate with whips & chains, leather & corsets, stilleto heels & all of the other things to be found in Category:BDSM.

This last point is the one that makes me the most skeptical. Imagine that you are watching a movie of this genre, & one woman sternly pronounces to the other, "You have been a bad slave. You must be punished!" And the next thing we hear is:

Mahna mahna, doo dee badoobah, mahna mahna, doo deebee doo ...

wouldn't your immediate response be to laugh? Or am I the only one for whom this juxtiposition of music with action ruins something best described by Coleridge's phrase, the "willing suspension of disbelief"? Until we can find a source that says the tune was used precisely in this way in the film (or that a specific person who claims to have seen this film says it was used this way), I think it would be best to omit this detail. -- llywrch 03:58, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

The original video is out on youtube.com. There everyone can see for themselves that there is in fact no lesbian BDSM scene, but quite a harmless sauna scene. I tried to edit the page to reflect this(11:55, 17 October 2006 129.240.176.192 (Talk)), but it was removed for some reason? here is the link to the original clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlgKI8QPTCg -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.48.121.118 (talk • contribs) 13:05, 21 October 2006

I don't know why the other editor reverted your changes, but I made a copy edit to improve the fluency. The passage might benefit from still some more work. -- llywrch 23:55, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

The original clip, as many probably have noticed, was removed from youtube, but it has found a permanent home here: http://www.flurl.com/item/Manahmanah_u_237794 It would be good to include a link to it on the main page! Manjet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.10.19.101 (talk) 09:01, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] no lullaby of birdland in the original

It says in the article that "lullaby of Birdland" is one of the songs that are quoted in Mah Na Mah Na. While this is true for the muppets version, it does not occur in the original. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.240.176.233 (talk • contribs) .

The same thing goes for Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy, or at least I cannot find a trace of it. The original version interpolates exactly three tunes. The first two are "Midsommarvaka" and "Santa Lucia", but I am not sure as to what the third one is. It doesn't sound as either of the two mentioned songs. And there are no "others". --Jonas

[edit] citation needed

What does the tag refer to? The #1 in the UK charts or the increased popularity of the Umiliani-version?

[edit] Notability of references in other media

On Jan. 24 Stlemur deleted a number of references to other media on the grounds they were not notable. Wikipedia notability guidelines specifically state they refer to the existence of entire articles, not to the content of articles. As such, I am restoring the previously deleted information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PianOmega47 (talk • contribs) 18:15, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

You are technically correct, the concept defined by WP:N only deals with the appropriateness of topics. However, the signifigance of references is explicitly covered by WP:HTRIV. -Verdatum (talk) 18:37, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Glad to see many redirects here

I'm happy to see there are a lot of redirects here with different titles phonetically - it won't do any harm and it will be VERY helpful to even one person who can't find the exact title! Well done :) Drum guy (talk) 22:34, 13 March 2008 (UTC)