Talk:Magneto (comics)

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[edit] Archiving

Archived the talk page by moving it. There were just too many unsigned comments to try to go through the history to fix. Moving the page history seemed the right way to handle it. - jc37 20:45, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Cleanup topics

[edit] Length

Obviously the article is rather long.

  • For one thing, due to the character's mental/emotional/ethical complexity, and because Magneto is a major actor in the Marvel universe, the "synopsis" of his history has become rather long. However, I see several places where we can begin condensing/splitting:
    • History (the sections which follow the Early life and Rise of Magneto sections) - These sections need to be unified and condensed into a single section, with "extra" information merged into associated articles.
    • Xorn-specific information is best dealt with in the Xorn article. And since this is "ongoing", it also keeps all edits/changes in one location. A very short summary, with a template:Main link should be fine.
    • There is enough information to start a separate article dealing with the character's ethical complexities. A discussion about what to call that article would be helpful.
  • Alternate versions - these should all be merged into the associated articles' character entries, and just be a simple listing, with perhaps a sentence or two for reference.
  • Whether or not the "membership" templates are deleted, Template:X-Men should be placed at the bottom of the article.

This is at least a starting point. - jc37 19:33, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Looking at the history the first thing that needs to be chopped up is the House of M section. It's overly long for such a small part of the character's history. I've only skimmed the series so someone more familiar with the mini should take a shot at condensing it. WesleyDodds 08:08, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citations

Another thing we need is citations. Books about comic books, that DK Ultimate Guide to the X-Men, articles in print that offer analysis about the character, interviews with creators, documentaries from X-Men DVDs and television (quite a few comics documentaries have been made), and so forth can all be cited in order to give a fuller picture of the character. WesleyDodds 21:46, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

The DK books contain many errors. I talked to two of the editors recently, regarding the upcoming MARVEL ENCYCLOPEDIA, which is apparently going to be much more accurate, because it was rewritten from scratch, and a team of writers worked on it, and a team of editors from Marvel checked it out. The DK Guides are problematic, because the author, Sanderson, had not kept up with all the history of the characters, and remains aloof from Marvel, and DK did not feel it necessary to check with Marvel when it reprinted the Guides. The original X-MEN book from DK, edited by Jon Richardson, was going to be corrected but then Richardson left DK. The 2nd and 3rd editions were published after he left -- you'll note his name is still listed as editor -- as reprints, and while some more recent events and characters were added, none of the previous mistakes that he was going to fix, were fixed. Always more accurate are the "Marvel Encyclopedia" series, that used to be published in-house, and the Official Handbooks. There are a number of books that were published in the last year.--Myst3 03:42, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone have access to a copy of Comics Creators on X-Men? It's a collection of interviews with writers and artists who've worked on X-Men comics. I skimmed through this at the bookstore today and found a couple of interesting points:

  • Stan Lee says he toyed with the idea of making Xavier and Magneto brothers
  • Chris Claremont's interpretation of Magento stems from the first time he is shown without his helmet[1], which made him think that he didn't look like such a bad guy after all. He goes in-depth into his formulation of Magneto's background and why he chose the Holocaust background.
  • John Byrne advocates the "vicious bastard" interpretation of Magneto, and insinuates that Claremont wrote Magneto the way he did (evil with a bit of nobility about him) because he wanted to use Dr. Doom but couldn't after the whole Doombot debacle in Uncanny X-Men. He says "He even had a gypsy background at one point". WesleyDodds 03:02, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

John Byrne is, once again, repeating a lie that's been repeatedly disproven. Dave Cockrum and Chris Claremont have both attested to that. John Byrne's story is a fabrication, that he started putting about after the first X-MEN movie came out. It is complete horse hockey. I've spoken to Dave Cockrum several times about it, and he's written about it, and he's quoted in the X-MEN CREATORS book you cite above. (I do have a copy.) If you read the X-MEN COMPANION volumes 1 and 2 from 1982, with interviews of Claremont, Cockrum, Byrne, and several others, it is clear what Claremont thought of the character Dr. Doom as a monster and a ratbastard, and he thought that Magneto had nobility. He didn't want to make Magneto another "Dr. Doom" because his perception of Doom was different from Byrne's. But Byrne's story is a fabrication. As Cockrum and Claremont have repeatedly said, they DID get to use Dr. Doom! In the story arc immediately preceding the Magneto arc where Claremont gave Magneto his Holocaust history. As Dave Cockrum has said, why in the world would they want to use Doom again? They just used him! As a matter of fact, it was Byrne who was wildly jealous that Claremont had used Doom, and he very much disapproved of the way Claremont used him in UNCANNY X-MEN, and that is why he invented the "Doom-bot" idea in the first place, to try and say that the Doom Claremont used in UNCANNY wasn't the real Dr. Doom! So, no, Claremont and Cockrum planned to make Magneto a Jewish Holocaust survivor in 1981, and he was always meant to be Jewish. As they both have stated. They were there, they were the creators involved. -- Myst3 03:25, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Of course I put little stock in what John Byrne says as any sort of absolute truth, but it's still a viewpoint he maintains that you can cite. WesleyDodds 06:04, 23 September 2006 (UTC)


"His magnetic fields have been measured at over 200 tesla, and no firm upper limit to the intensity of the fields has been established." Can we get a citation for this, because I would love to read that comic! --Kiplingkat 12:20, 27 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.110.68.76 (talk)

[edit] Chronology

We also need to take out the in-universe chronology of the fictional biography. He wasn't introduced as a Holocaust victim, for example. --NewtΨΦ 21:36, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

That's fine to mention in the biography, but the publication history prior to it should mention how the character started in the Silver Age (raving madman) and how Claremont added details over the years. WesleyDodds 21:41, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm not so sure, check Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics/editorial guidelines#The use of in-universe statistics and chronology. I think with retcons and such it might leave a bit too much out to treat his history as continuous, but maybe so. --NewtΨΦ 22:23, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
I suppose my point is while his Holocast background is a retcon, it didn't replace anything, since prior to that almost none of his background was given; consequently, much of his appearances rely on it and related details (Magda, his friendship with Xavier, etc.) for context. After all, Batman didn't have an origin until five issues after his first appearance, but it's become integral to understanding the character. WesleyDodds 01:14, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Gotcha. I agree it should be included, however I'm wondering if we should follow out-of-universe chronology, meaning we start with his first appearance and talk about how his backstory is later retconned/revealed in a flashback by Claremont or whoever in that issue of Uncanny X-Men, basically treating him as a comic book character who is developed over the years, or treat him like a real person and first talk about his birth, then his childhood, his coming to terms with his powers, his marriage to Magda, his subsequent search for her... and so on. I'm thinking we should do the former. --NewtΨΦ 01:35, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I am for reducing the in-universe chronology but so much information about the character has been given, including the "Erik Lehnsherr" false identity, having some sort of sketch or timeline of the character history would be very useful to include for people wanting to learn about the character itself rather than it's literary history.75.110.75.22 13:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)KiplingKat

There's an index of X-Men comics at TheXAxis.com that yields several historical details (for one, Magneto was so one-dimensional when he debuted that even his background with Xavier didn't exist yet). There's also a listing of stories that take place before his first appearance. WesleyDodds 01:52, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for that. There's also Bibliography of Magneto which I used to condense and cite the "Early life" section. I also worded it more out-of-universe and it reads more than ever like it needs to follow out of universe chronology. --NewtΨΦ 02:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I think the character history falls under this:
  • "Of course, out-of-universe information needs context; details of creation, development, etc. are more helpful if the reader understands a fictional element's role in its own milieu. This often involves using the fiction to give plot summaries, character descriptions or biographies, or direct quotations. This is not inherently bad, provided that the fictional passages are short, are given the proper context, and do not constitute the main portion of the article. If such passages stray into the realm of interpretation, secondary sources must be provided to avoid original research." - Wikipedia:Manual of Style (writing about fiction)
- jc37 04:33, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
But that section further states:
  • "Even these short summaries can often be written from an out-of-universe perspective, and when this is possible, this approach should be preferred."
which leads me to believe we should still try to work out-of-universe, especially in chronology. It's more informative about the character to talk about his early appearances as a one-dimensional megalomaniac and move on to introduce the later developed backstory of why he's a megalomaniac than to treat it as one continuous story. There's little disclosure right now of the 20 years time and different writers from Magneto's first appearance and the development of his tragic past. --NewtΨΦ 13:36, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] General Comments

I agree that the personal history of Magneto needs to be condensed, especially in instances such as "House of M" which has its own article, in favor of a treatment of Magneto the fictional character and how he has been approached by various writers through the X-Men and their spin off series runs. The argument between Byrne and Claremont being one of many various artists have had over the years over the character being either a craven bastard or walking Greek tragedy (megalomaniacal being a given). 75.110.75.22 00:47, 4 December 2006 (UTC)KiplingKat

[edit] Erik

Granted that Magneto has used many aliases over the years, but Isn't it firmly established that his first name is actually Erik? - jc37 22:16, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I kind of get that impression. And hell, that's the name they give him in the movies. It's interesting to note that in the "Planet X" issues the recap pages give his real name as Erik Magnus Lehnsherr; I think he's even called Erik in the story. But we all know what happened with that. WesleyDodds 22:35, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, I'd like to be able to use "Erik", especially in the "early history" section (before he was known as Magneto, which is also an alias, just one that is the most commonly known). So can you point me to any actual citations? (An issue where someone actually calls him Erik as a child, for example.) - jc37 23:11, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
"Erik" is a an assumed name, though. There is no comic that has him called "Erik" as a child. Magneto took this false name after Magda ran away from him, before he immigrated to Israel and met Charles Xavier. "Erik Magnus Lehnsherr" is not his real name, and we don't know what his name was when he was a child. Either "Erik" or "Magnus" could have been part of his birth name, but that is nothing but speculation at this point. He himself has declared "Magnus" as his only name, so I call him Magnus when I'm referring to his history before he met Charles Xavier. The "recap" page of a comic book isn't considered continuity, in any case. The only thing that has been firmly established is that "Erik Lehnsherr" is a false name, in X-MEN vol.2 #72.-Myst3 20:18, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Actually, just because "Erik Lehnsherr" is a pseudonym, that doesn't mean that "Erik" is not his real first name.
"...don't know what his name was when he was a child." - I don't know for certain either which was why I was (and still am) asking if anyone out there who might actually have a reference that states this. - jc37 20:26, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Given that he changed his name in order to travel more freely within the Gypsy communtity to find his wife (and outrun the KGB) it is unlikely he used any of his real name. If Magda had married and run from an "Erik" , had she heard an "Erik" was looking for her, she would have bolted again no matter what his last name was. So it's most likely that none of it is his real name.::: - Kiplingkat 13:49, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Did he ever tell Xavier that it was just an alias? Because I've seen flashback panels where Xavier calls him Erik (namely that issue that the article grabs a scan from).
And of course the recap page of a comic isn't continuity, but it gives us a frame of reference as to Marvel's stance on the subject. WesleyDodds 21:16, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
The recap page isn't continuity, and it only reflects the ignorance of an editor or writer, if it reflects error. If you want to check out Marvel's stance, please visit Marvel.com and the Magneto biography, or read the Official Handbook from 2005 that deals with the X-Men characters.
And no, there is no reference to any use of the name "Erik" before Xavier meets Magnus in Israel. Since I've read every Magneto appearance, I'm probably right, although I could of course be wrong. In comics that were written after the "Erik" name was introduced in 1992, there are stories that take place at the time Xavier meets Magneto in Israel, and thereafter, and yes Xavier is depicted as calling Magnus "Erik." And why not? "Erik Lehnsherr" is Magneto's adopted name. It's still the name he's known by in the Marvel Universe, and it's the name he probably used when he immigrated to Israel. But it's not his birth name. The question was asked, is this the name of his childhood, and it is not. Magneto is very specific about it -- he says he denied who he was, everything he family died for, when he took the false identity of "Erik Lehnsherr the Sinte." It's a very strong statement -- to say, "I denied who I was..." when he took the name and false ethnicity. The name "Erik Lehnsherr" was invented by the forger Georg Odekirk. It is not his birth name. It's like the name "Stan Lee" -- or any other adopted name -- it's the only name Magneto goes by, it's the name on his legal papers (forged papers though they are). But it is not his original, birth name.-- Myst3 03:12, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Myst is right, "Erik Lehnsherr, Sinte Gypsy" is a forged identity he created while he was traveling through Eastern Europe looking for Magda who was of Gypsy decent. This has come from the Marvel offices. The entire introduction of the idea of Magneto as a Gypsy and not a Jew, which was damn near explicitly spelled out by Cockrum and Claremont through the entire 1970’s and 1980’s, was introduced in Magneto #0 in which Gabrielle Hallar gave a briefing on Magneto and dropped the Erik Lahser name and his Gypsy background on an unsuspecting fanbase.

It was a complete bombshell and Marvel later admitted it was an attempt to retool the character to avoid a backlash from the Jewish community because of the situation in the Middle East.

Unfortunately, that announcement came too late to get the name pulled from the movie scripts.

Also, Charles called Magneto "Magnus" in both flashback and current time until the "Erik Lehnsherr Sinte Gypsy" retcon of X-Men Unlimited #2 in 1993.

Given his Jewish background in the early 20th century, and the fact that he was among the first group of Jews to arrive at Auschwitz (see Uncanny X-Men #199), it is unlikely that his real name is Germanic in nature. It’s more likely he would be an “Itzak” than an “Erik”.- Kiplingkat 13:49, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Joseph

It just occurred to me that Xorn is not the first time people where confused as to who was actually Magneto. From what I understand, Joseph was originally meant to be a deaged Magneto (not just viewed as such by other characters, but actually intended as such by editorial), but this was changed. Can anyone verify this? WesleyDodds 06:37, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm currently reading xmen apperances from the mid-late 90's. While I don't have the refrences, I'm pretty sure I saw letter pages where Joseph is clearly described as Magneto survived and deaged 20 years.. but in '96-'98 somewhere we start seeing Magneto again as a seperate entity. I haven't read beyond that yet =) 69.138.81.129 20:10, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
I believe that both the Xorn/Magneto/Xorn and the Joseph/Magneto are a case of retconning, but I have no proof of that so there you go WookMuff 14:05, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Joseph (deceased; See: The Magneto War) is a clone of Magneto, nothing more. Kaelesh (talk) 16:39, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

I believe the original poster was asking how Joseph was originally meant to be a de-aged Magneto, even though as current continuity stands he's a clone. --DrBat (talk) 20:54, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image

Shouldn't we get a more recent image? The one we have right now is kinda...umm...WAY outdated.

Does he look any different? Is it not representative of the character anymore? --NewtΨΦ 02:51, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] magnetos current status !

it is not known if magneto still has acssess to his powers. the editer persumed that because magnetos body was not found means that he has his powers again. this has not been confirmed by the publishers so i am editing the last bit of current continuity. any objections —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr noire (talk • contribs)

Not necessarily to your edits, no, but to the line they reference. I removed it and your edits because it's all speculative and Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Also, please sign your comments. --NewtΨΦ 20:44, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Children

Just to make this clear, Quicksilver, the Scarlet Witch and Polaris are all confirmed as Magneto's children.

Zaladane claimed to be Polaris' sister (and Alex noted there was some resemblance) but that does not make her Magneto's daughter. She could be, or she may be the daughter of Lorna's mother by another man. So yeah, that's why I deleted the mention of her as Magneto's daughter. I don't think we should have her listed as "possibly Magneto's daughter" as she just claimed a connection to Polaris and despite being involved with Magneto she never claimed any relation to him. Cherries Jubilee 01:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Polaris is revealed to be Magneto's daughter in the 2000s. Wiki-newbie 16:53, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Could Zaladane be Anya the daughter of Magneto that was supposedly killed in a fire. this is just s a thought but it would mean she is the full sister of the Scarlet witch ( both of them being sorceresses) and Quicksilver. Making her another half sibling of Polaris.

We've seen Anya's burned body a couple times in the telling and retelling of the "Fire in the Night" and there is nothing in cannon to suggest that Zaladane is Anya. The hair color/type isn't even right and she is too young. If Zaladane is a another daughter of Magneto (and the evidence supporting that is rather sketchy), she probably was, like Polaris, another child "born on the wrong side of the blanket" as the old saying goes. (Magneto has always been something of a hound.) Also, it is interesting to note the Austin's retcon of Polaris' background goes against a lot of evidence built up that she is not his daughter. It is also very interesting that Magneto has never spoken on the matter on panel. At all. As he knew the results of the "secret blind genetic test" before Polaris did and announced it to the Genosha, it could have been a ploy to ensure her loyalty while he was paralyzed and practically powerless. I'd say the "possibly" should stand.KiplingKat 17:10, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Magneto's body

(if you find any language error, please forgive me)

Magneto (in comics) shouldn't have a Mr. Universe's body, because he's a very old guy and he doesn't have any slowed aging process. His true appearance would have to be the one shown in the X-Men's recent films. Brazilian Man 15:34, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

That seems more a critique of the artists than the article. I'll cede your point, but that has little to do with the article. Please keep the discussion focused on the article. Thanks! --PsyphicsΨΦ 16:40, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
If you recall, he was actually de-aged to infancy by Alpha the Ultimate Mutant. When he was later re-aged, it was to his prime, not to his actual chronological age. Given the way the time lines work in comics, he is still in his thirties in terms of his physical age. One could also speculate that, in addition, he does indeed have a slowed aging process compared to us Homo sapiens - many of these mutant characters have altered physiologies to support their primary powers. However, speculation aside, the point is that Magneto's body is supposed to be that of a fairly young man. None of this needs to be said in the article, but I hope it clears things up. Metamagician3000 23:19, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I would also like to add that since Magneto's power is channeled through his body/nervous system and he has difficulty using his power when he is injured, it has been in his best interest to stay in prime physical condition. How his power is used was discussed in X-Men (not Uncanny, just X-Men) 2 & 3 when he discovered that when he was living as in infant after Mutant Alpha regressed him, Moria McTaggart had attempted to correct a flaw in his genetic structure that created chemical imbalances in his brain whenever he used his power on huge scales, such as putting Asteroid M into the air or altering the Earth's magnetic field.

This is an intriguing aspect of the character that Marvel has introduced but never explored: That whenever Magneto uses his power on epic, planet altering scales, he becomes chemically imbalanced as if he is bi-polar.


~ KiplingKat

[edit] Merge discussion

[edit] Vote

  1. Oppose Wiki-newbie 19:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
  2. Oppose ThuranX 03:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
  3. Oppose. --DrBat 04:08, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
  4. Oppose Metamagician3000 04:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
  5. Oppose Nejee16 21:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
  6. Oppose Myst3 13:38, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comments

  • The film will get made, it's better to have an article now than later. Wiki-newbie 19:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Concur with W-n. ThuranX 03:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Hmm. Honestly, I forgot to put Magneto (comics) on my watchlist, so I missed out on this. I suggested a merge because there is no recent information about this film, according to the article. What I had intended was to merge the existing information at Magneto (film) and redirect the article to the appropriate subsection on this article. When the project becomes live, then the redirect can be fleshed back out to a full-fledged film article. Honestly, I'm disappointed that this was pretty much a straightforward vote without discussion; not in line with WP:POLL. --Erik (talk/contrib) @ 22:09, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Consensus

No merge. Wiki-newbie 21:31, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] just an idea

just an idea but what ya'll think of a section about magneto and xavier's relationship throughout their history 2gether.... Ancientanubis, talk 03:24, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is Magneto a mass murderer?

Another edit reverted a category I added for Magneto: 'fictional mass-murderers'. The category is defined as such with "the killing of four or more people in a single incident". How does this not apply to Magneto with all his acts of terrorism and destruction against humanity?--CyberGhostface 23:09, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Give me a specific example. I can only think of Planet X, which was promptly retconned for being so horribly OOC.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Doop/magnetosecretwars.jpg
http://x-men.pl/summaries/excalibur_v2/graf/exr002a.jpg
In both cases Magneto shows extreme offense to being considered a mass-murderer. --DrBat 23:21, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
And Jigsaw repeatedly stresses that he's not a killer and that he despises murderers.--CyberGhostface 00:30, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Jigsaw is a poor, deluded old man who thinks putting people into death traps is a good way to help them appreciate their lives. --DrBat 00:33, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Whereas Magneto is a poor, deluded old man who believes he's justified in wiping out/and or controlling the human race because he's so egotistical as to believe that his race is superior.--CyberGhostface 00:34, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
OK, thanks for proving your POV towards Magneto's character. :)
Magneto believes that mutants being in control is the only way to prevent the humans from trying to wipe them out. That's pessimistic, not deluded. --DrBat 00:37, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
If you believe that adding the category is a sign of POV because I dislike Magneto, then you're mistaken. I also added the category to Ben Linus, a character I like very much. Whether I like Magneto or not has NOTHING to do with the fact that he is a mass murderer.--CyberGhostface 00:40, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
No, he is not. You have yet to give any specific examples. Ben deliberately gassed all the people in the town; his being a mass-murderer is not debatable.
And I know your opinions on Magneto's character; you are biased against him. --DrBat 00:43, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Off the top of my head; sinking the submarine, causing the mountain to fall, the planet-wide EMP that caused all the planes and hospital machinery to stop.--CyberGhostface 00:48, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
First two cases were in direct response to the humans trying to kill him.
Third case; it's not his fault the UN created the "Magneto Protocols," preventing him from going back to Earth. It's not like he intentionally did it to hurt people; that the was the only way to get back to Earth. --DrBat 00:54, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
CyberGhostFace, there are two issues here. One, is your obvious ignorance of the character's history. I note one or two comic book message boards where you've tried to insert this discussion. It seems to me you're somewhat obsessive about labelling this character a "mass murderer." You really don't have any context for the character's actions. What is more telling, is the history of the character is readily available, and you repeatedly state the most superficial, false, and cliched description "a poor deluded old man" to prove your point. Magneto is not old, he is not deluded, and he grabed on to the "mutants are superior" idea after Xavier himself introduced it to him, as a kind of psychological anchor and extreme compensation for his past dehumanization by the Nazis. The second issue, is the definition of "mass murderer" using the criteria (as you report) of "four or more people." By that criteria, Wolverine is a mass murderer, Scott Summers is a mass murderer, Xavier is a mass murderer, Rogue is now a mass murderer. I could go on and on. Context, motivation, and characterization all need to be considered.Myst3 14:55, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
I called him a deluded old man in response to something DrBat said that pissed me off. I don't *really* consider him to be deluded. And maybe Wolverine IS a mass murderer...ever think of that? If the glove fits... As for the comic boards I asked (and it was only one, I don't know where you got two from)...maybe that has something to do with this article? I was asking others to verify the information. And so far, the people who have responded said yes. And the criteria for mass-murderer is based on Wikipedia's official standards at Category:Fictional_mass_murderers.--CyberGhostface 15:38, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
What a stupid arguement. Magneto murdered masses of people... magneto is fictional... I'm with you CGF. Many people claim that 9/11 was the result of agressive American foreign policy and globalization destroying the way of life of peoples in the middle east... whether that is true or not, that doesn't make it a justifiable act of self defence. I loved magneto, don't get me wrong (I loved him until the joseph retcon, then it was just one lame plot after another, with the exception of House of M), but that doesn't make him less of a mass murderer. WookMuff 14:11, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Magneto is not a murderer since he is fictious, you know who is a murderer though? Chris Benoit. Thank you.
So I guess Freddy Krueger isn't a murderer? Since he's fictional, that must make him exempt from the profiling.--CyberGhostface 01:21, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

First of all, Magneto is not, nor has he ever been, genocidal. While he has held goals of conquest in the past, it has never been his goal to eliminate the human species. Ever. He has ruled two countries (Santo Marco and Genosha) and while he did so with an iron fist, he never even fostered segregation in those countries, let alone created Progroms. Heck, in Genosha he had humans on his advisory staff. However, there is a legitimate argument for him being termed a mass murderer. Oddly though, it is not from the EMP incident in Fatal Attractions or any of the incidents mentioned above. In that storyline the U.N. set up a blockcade against Magneto, effectively declaring war. Ergo, everything he did after that falls under the category of "Acts of War", much like his sinking of the Russian submarine in Uncanny #150, or pulling the mountain filled with rebelling Magistrate factionists in Magneto: Dark Seduction. In all of those instances there was a declared state of war. So unless you want to call the United States mass murders for dropping the atomic bomb on Hiroshima, those acts do not qualify him as a mass murder.

However, what does qualify him as a mass murder took place much, much earlier. In Vinnistia. As understandable as it was, as sympathetic as he was in the moment, his explosive outburst and killing of the crowd in Vinnistia after his daughter's death does qualify him as a mass murder. During the Silver Age he also attempted, but was unsuccessful, to set of a couple nuclear bombs. So as much as I love the character, the description of mass murder does have validity. --KiplingKat 10:56, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Polish?

Is this guy Polish? Most Likely. I'm just looking for comformation and I'll add it—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.119.145.117 (talk) 18:33, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

He's not. Go to this link and read the second item.--CyberGhostface 23:48, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
In an issue of New Mutants, he states "An ill wind is coming ... they are registering mutants ... like they once registered my people in Poland ...! Who knows what horrors await us." --DrBat 20:12, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Ah, but was that the real Magnus talking, or or was he just sticking true to his Eric Magnus Lensherr false identity... or perhaps it was an early appearance of Kuan-Yin Xorn, being manipulated by Sublime who as we all know has been present in all life since the beginning of time, starting in 2001... Sorry, what were we talking about? Oh yeah. At various times Magneto has been identified as both a Jew and a gypsy, but with the false identity debacle in the late 90's... who can say what is real and what is fake in current continuity. WookMuff 14:20, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

A. Magneto wasn't using the Eirk Lehnsherr I.D. at that point. B. In New Mutants #61 he was thinking to himself. Not talking to anyone. Unless he has a MPD, his mixing up his fake identity with his real one makes no sense. C. "Erik Lehnsherr" is a German name, not a Polish one. So he wouldn't be mixing up the fake and real identities in the first place.

He's a Polish Jew.--KiplingKat 11:05, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Magneto is a Jewish Holocaust survivor. And yes, it was the real Magnus talking. He was kneeling at the foot of Doug Ramsey's body, and talking to us, the reader, outloud. You are being facitious about the Xorn thing, and it's not very funny, in my opinion. Kuan Yin Xorn was not Magneto, but only pretending to be Magnus. Which you know, I'm sure. Magneto is not a gypsy ... as revealed in X-MEN #72, he took the false name "Erik Lehnsherr" and the false ethnicity of a gypsy in order to search for his wife and hide from the KGB. The only time he was identified as a "gypsy" was by Gabrielle Haller in her speech to an audience at an American university; she was not only using fake and falsified identification as her source, but since we now know she found this stuff in a file on Georg Odekirk the forger amongst Mossad's database, we can also presume she as well as Mossad knew perfectly well Magneto's true Jewish identity. Her motivation as the Israeli ambassador to Great Britain, as well as a Jewish Holocaust survivor, as well as an old friend of Magnus', to help cover up his true identity is pretty high. In any case, Magneto is real in EXCALIBUR vol. 3, and that was the real deal in HOUSE OF M. As of now, his whereabouts are unknown. His status vis-a-vis his powers is unknown. What is known is that he is a Jewish survivor of Aushchwitz who met Charles Xavier in Israel 25 years or so ago. It is also highly likely he's a Polish Jewish Holocaust survivor, given all the evidence. Please check out the links at the bottom of the article.
In the real world, there are and have been indeed constant attempts to remove Magneto's Jewish Holocaust history, because certain writers and editors were either narrow-minded Judeophobic bigots, or they were afraid of political correctness; i.e., having a villain be Jewish. The bigots to this day don't want this powerful, important, and charismatic character to be Jewish; they can go ballistic at the very suggestion someone at Marvel wants to write the words "Jewish" and "Magneto" in the same sentence. It is wrong and pitiful for anyone working for Marvel to still think this way, it will always be wrong. It isn't a joke -- it's prejudice and bigotry. The Marvel of Dan Buckley and Joe Quesada, as far as I know, stands against this kind of anti-Semitic treatment of one of their preeminent Jewish characters. So, again, yes, Magneto is a Jewish and Polish Holocaust survivor. We don't know his real name. We don't know where exactly in Poland he was born, or even if he was born there. He could have been born to Polish Jewish parents in Germany. All this needs to be revealed, or perhaps not. But these kinds of revelations add to and enhance Magneto's history and Jewish identity, they don't undermine it.Myst3 01:36, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, this isn't the forum for your soapbox. The gypsy background was a retcon, the fake identity was a reretcon, "Kuan Yin Xorn was not Magneto" was a weak retcon of a weaker story. Most everything that has happened to him since Joseph was retconned as an Alien-tech clone is lame. Get over it and yourselfWookMuff 03:29, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
WookMuff, there is no need to get personal. This was a discussion of whether or not Magneto is Polish. This really isn't a "forum" at all, and your speculations or opinions about Joseph or Xorn don't pertain to this topic. Your general opinion that everything that has happened to Magneto in the last few years is "lame" is more appropriate for a comic book message board, not a Wikipedia article discussion page. You might want to edit the above to make your statements about the retcons, or attempted retcons, without the personal sniping. I did get off-topic somewhat myself, but I was trying to support the contention that Magneto is most likely a Polish Jewish character.Myst3 05:33, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps, but you lack perspective about the character. Both your arguments about Magneto's ethnicity and above about the question of being a mass murderer show you are deeply passionate about the character, but also that you lack the ability to form an NPOV. Also, my comments regarding Magneto's 6 years of lameness may be personal comments, but my discussion about retcons, which those changes really are a very good example, is very much in keeping with an the talk page of an article about magneto. Also, I don't know if you were segueing or really didn't understand, but I used forum in an older meaning, not in its internet meaning, as in the setting or atmosphere wherein a discussion takes place, which comes from its original meaning in english... umm... somewhere a discussion takes place... you get what I mean. As for the personal, what I meant is... He is a comic book, cartoon, and movie character. Changing his ethnicity to gypsy doesn't make the creators in the 80's any more antisemetic than having a Jewish Villain does. I am not saying people at marvel aren't anti-semetic, I am just saying that they aren't NECESSARILY WookMuff 09:23, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
My Apologies, some of the comments I had attributed to you in forming the above conclusion were in fact by DrBat, in the discussion of Magneto as Mass Murderer. I still think you are too invested in the character to be objective, but I don't necessarily think that you are unable to form NPOV. Sorry about that. WookMuff 09:32, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
It's complicated, but CyberGhostface and I know each other, so it was more than just the character. He'll like certain characters who I think are horrible people, and vice versa.
And while I do like the character, if it was definite that he was a mass-murderer I wouldn't argue the point. I like Black Adam a lot, yet I don't deny he's a mass-murderer. Ect, ect. --DrBat 02:24, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Page Length

This article is huge and should reall be reduced. My suggestion is to create an Alternate versions of Magneto page similar to Alternate versions of Captain America and Alternate versions of Iron Man which were recently created due to page length. This would create room to expand the Alternate versions section and possibly free up enough room to add more detail to this page.

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Magneto-20051029024916677.jpg

Image:Magneto-20051029024916677.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 03:34, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cosmic Spider-Man

Despite Cosmic Spider-Man's vast powers their battle is actually inconclusive (probably the only one that Cosmic Spider-Man does not win outright, although I haven't checked the others). Also, this is a relatively minor incident during the relevant storyline, though it's a showcase for their respective powers: Magneto and Cosmic Spider-Man fight, perform great feats against each other, and go their separate ways, neither having decisively triumphed over the other, though we do see that Cosmic Spider-Man's level of power even exceeds Magneto's. Rather than explain this unnecessary detail, I've deleted the relevant words from an overly long article. The focus on the Red Skull confrontation is what really matters at this point of Magneto's career. Metamagician3000 (talk) 06:51, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name based on Nazi torture device?

I was reading an article that claims Nazis frequently tortured their victims with a magneto engine. Have Lee or Kirby (or any reputable comics historian) ever claimed that the character was named after this? 24.60.166.137 (talk) 03:40, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

No. I've never heard anyone connect Magneto's name to a Nazi torture device.
I assumed it was just because his powers were magnetic. --DrBat (talk) 15:10, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Main Article -- Ethnicity

DCincarnate, we went through this discussion a couple of years ago, and then last year again. Magneto's identity as a Jewish Holocaust survivor is stated in the introduction to the character. And then it really doesn't fit to put the story of the ethnicity in "Publication History." The history of the character and how he took the false identity of "Erik Lehnsherr the Sinte Gypsy" is described in the "History" section. Someone came up with the very good idea of putting the background story in the "Ethnicity" section. It's an excellent compromise. Also, the ethnicity in other media section is very helpful. You've come in and chopped up the Magneto article without coming here first to discuss your opinions and actions. I believe that the article was balanced, and we had reached a compromise with all concerned for a long time. The "Ethnicity" section is a good place for the background story of the "Erik Lehnsherr" false identity.Myst3 (talk) 21:23, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Xmen1.jpg

Image:Xmen1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 08:26, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Magneto Was Right"

This is almost certainly an allusion to Meir Kahane. Of course, my observation is just WP:OR at this point.--Pharos (talk) 01:05, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Possibly?

From the edit history Ethnicity: Citation not needed because of the word "possibly" based on many private letters, emails, chats, public posts not availabe now.) I'm a tad confused but if we're talking about 'possibly', then we are now in the realm of original research, which is frowned upon in Wikipedia. Lots42 (talk) 02:33, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Your comment confuses me. What exactly are you talking about? The word "possibly" means exactly that. Based on numerous posts, letters, chats, and comments with creators and editors throughout the years, like Ben Raab and Scott Lobdell, and other people who were involved at Marvel at the time, but without exact confirmation from Bob Harras himself, or his EinC in 1992, Tom DeFalco. How is that "original research?" It's reportage. And I might add, a HIGHLY POSSIBLE and accurate reportage. The word "possibly" has never denoted "original research" in my experience. On the contrary, it means something is highly possible but not proven. In recounting "original reserach" one would be using more precise statistical language, stating probabilities.Myst3 (talk) 15:31, 8 June 2008 (UTC)