Talk:Magdalen College

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This page says: "Magdalen College could be[...]Magdalen College, Oxford[...]Magdalene College, Cambridge"; while the Magdalene College page says the same for 'Magdalene'. Surely each could only correctly be one of those. Wouldn't it be more sensible to have each redirect to the correct college, and perhaps put a note on each college such as:

This page is about the University of Oxford college, Magdalen. The University of Cambridge college is Magdalene ?

It doesn't seem logical to have a name disambiguating between different things only one of which is actually called by that name; just as we don't (to take a flippant example) delete the Hose article and replace it with "Hose could be: Hose, the tubular liquid-conducting device; or Hoes, more than one garden implement". TSP 01:16, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Well I agree with you that it doesn't make sense to have two near identical disambig pages. However, I would argue it makes more sense to merge them into one disambig page with an additional note about the difference in pronunciations (lets ignore the obvious argument about which one becomes the primary disambig and which the redirect).

The reason being that if someone just types in either 'Magdalen College' or 'Magdalene College' they are most likely unsure of the spelling and which university they are refering to. The disambig page would then help them to decide which college they are talking about. The pronunciation should be mentioned on the disambig, as this might help people to decide which college the are looking for.

In a related issue we should have redirects for Magdalene College, Oxford pointing to the Oxford college and Magdalen College, Cambridge pointing to the Cambridge college. Although the spellings are a mistake, it is clear which college there were really looking for.

The cross disambig that TSP suggests is also a strong option. There is not much in it. But you can only include the pronunciation destinction on a central disambig page. -- Solipsist 21:13, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've just realised that our hand may be forced on this - I don't think we can take my original proposition, because two more educational institutions exist - Magdalen College, Warner, New Hampshire, founded in 1973 with about 120 students, and Magdalen College, Minneapolis, which seems to be even smaller or at least less well-known. So yes, you're probably right - Magdalene College should redirect here, where all alternatives can be shown. I think a state-recognised higher-education establishment is worth of Wikipediaising, even if it does only have ~100 students (it also has the dubious honour of being the first google hit for "no intervisitation"); so I think we may need to include provision for it, even if it doesn't have an article yet. TSP 13:42, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well, I would have argued that Magdalene College should be the primary disambig page on the basis that it is closer to the spelling of Mary Magdalene. However, if you check the 'What links here' for both disambig pages, Magdalen College already has more non-talk hits and a quick search or two doesn't find any other Magdalene Colleges. So with two American Magdalen Colleges, that suggests that this page should be the primary disambig. -- Solipsist 15:42, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

As someone educated at Magdalene College, Cambridge and now teaching at Oxford (Lady Margaret Hall) I should make the following points:

1. There is no difference in pronounciation between the Oxford or Cambridge colleges - the Cambridge college does not use the modern pronounciation, and it too is known as 'Maudlen' verbally. 2. The disambiguation has a historical dimension. Before the 1850s, Magdalene College, Cambridge was known as Magdalen College, Cambridge (since, although its original foundation predated its Oxford sister, it was renamed after its Oxford sister in the 1540s when refounded). Hence the fact the pronounciations are the same. It's a common misconception (especially in Oxford) that the two are pronounced differently. They are not. It is also a common misconception that Magdalen College, Oxford is older, which it is not, having been founded in 1448 (the foundation which was to become Magdalene College, Cambridge was founded in 1428). 3. The name change in Cambridge only took place with the advent of the postal service (as recorded in the official history of Magdalene College, Cambridge) to help differentiate between the two. Apparently correspondents tended just to address their notes as 'Magdalen College' and this presented a problem (though why it didn't for the respective Corpus Christis etc I know not). As an interesting aside, Sir David Clary FRS the new President (head of house at the Oxford college rather than vice-master in Cambridge) of Magdalen is a former Fellow and Senior Tutor of Magdalene. C. S. Lewis of course was also a Fellow of both colleges.

So sorry to be pedantic - hoped this helped sort it out!

I think that 'pronunciation' was a slip-of-the-keyboard for 'spelling' above - I was certainly aware that the pronunciations were the same, and had simply read it as 'spelling' throughout what Solipsist said. I didn't know that the spelling difference was so recent - that's interesting. I note that no-one has yet been so kind as to create a page for either US institution, though :-( TSP 23:18, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

It looks as though this has been pretty well sorted out, but I'll just add my support for the idea that Magdalene College should redirect to a single dab page at Magdalen College, which in turn should list the Magdalen Colleges uncovered above. (I've made a couple of redirects, incidentally, in line with a suggestion above.) --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 20:59, 15 April 2006 (UTC)