Talk:Maelstrom (Battlestar Galactica)

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[edit] Is Leoben from The Ship Of Lights?

I dont think it's just me, but does anyone else think the guy taking Leoben's form is from the Ship of Lights? Starbuck 08:27, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


Did'nt Ronald D Moore say he was'nt going anywhere near the Ship of Lights? I know he could be possibly covering something up with that, but I've gotten the impression Leoben is to Kara what Six is to Gaius, only those two have been corrupted, where as Kara and Leoben have come to a mutual understanding quicker and have moved to the next phase. Kara may be a messiah like hyrbid of human and Kobal Lord instead of human/Cylon as fans have speculated.

Again, all rumour and known facts (about Moore not wanting to take on the ship of lights), but still, I do appreciate how they've ensured that Starbuck has been lost to the fleet in both television versions to fulfill a destiny set in stone. Dr. R.KZ. 18:03, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

After listening to some of the podcast, it seems to me like RDM had Starbuck commit suicide simply because of the shock value. No hidden agenda there. FredTheDeadHead 01:47, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
RDM is certainly tight lipped about why Starbuck had to die in this episode, but really, what did you expect him to say? "Don't worry everybody, she'll be back"? I think it's a bit of stretch to say that the lack of info means that he killed her off merely for "shock value". If Starbuck's death is part of a bigger plan, to be revealed in later episodes then RDM is hardly likely to spill the beans in this episode's podcast, IMHO. I think that there's enough clues that this is not the end of Kara. Not least of which is the apparent futility of her death. If she'd died saving the fleet, then I'd really be worried that we won't see her again. --Chilly Penguin 22:21, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
RDM ticks me off sometimes - I knew Starbuck was supposedly leaving the show - but I thought she'd disappear or something and not actually be killed off. Yeah shock value and all, but they just hyped this whole destiny thing up and it ends because it meant she was going to commit suicide? A hallucination told her to give up? That's really lame in my opinion. Not that I'm sad to see Starbuck go or anything, (I could care less really) it just seems that it was not worth all that storytime time with Leoben and his mind games ever since she met him. I have no idea if she is gone for good - a possibility that she could come back was having her hand on the "Eject" lever just before the big explosion - although Apollo didn't "see" her eject, he only saw the explosion - so perhaps he missed it. I want to know of the mysterious surgery at The Farm. I assume they're going leave that subplot dangling for all eternity.Cyberia23 04:36, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

There's nothing saying that this version of Galactica has to follow the 70's/80's franchise in any way, shape or form. As a formerly abused person myself my observation is that Kara was just as human as everyone else, only more so. She lived to fight, and not much else. She desperately tried to connect to other people but either kept losing them or pushing them away. I believe the episode is an allegory, a cautionary tale of the psychological toll that the genocide still inflicts on this remnant of humanity. Kara was the strongest but she still lost her sanity and therefore her life. I predict that at the very end of this series, both the Colonials and the Cylons will have killed each other off completely just within advanced sensor range of a present-day Earth. The entire plot of this version is driven by intense irony, and how else to end it but with a Pyrrhic victory? [The Eternal Squire]

Well one thing I admire about the new BSG, there is no Redshirt syndrome going on. Main characters can die and do die when you're not expecting it. I was shocked by Billy's, Kat's and Ellen Tigh's death (however they were minor characters really, but hardly nameless red shirts. You got to know them and watch some character development and then they're dead. I like your idea on how it could all end - that would be irony. The last scene could be pieces of Galactica tumbling past a pretty blue planet moments after she's destroyed - that planet being known to us viewers as "Earth". Cyberia23 06:59, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
The more I watch the series, the more I come to the conclusion that Galactica will never reach Earth. I can't imagine how the producers will introduce Earth to the viewers without crossing over to the cheesiness like the way Galactica 1980 did. I never liked the idea where they arrived to a modern day Earth because the entire journey just became a waste. What would also be bad is they come to a very advanced futuristic society which can destroy the Cylons with no problem, a la Star Trek Voyager. The creative staff really pissed off the majority of the fan base with the Season 2 finale, but they redeemed themselves immediately when they presented the Season 3 trailer at ComicCon months back. Watching what they were going to unfold proved to us that the sacrifices and risks were worth it. I'm also thinking about the moment when Starbuck realized the cylon was not Leoben. Does this also mean that imaginary Number Six and Baltar are not who they seem to be either. If they are from a higher plane of existence, could this also explain how Shelly Godfrey suddenly vanished from the Galactica. It should be obvious to us by now that someone or something is pulling the strings on both sides here, whether it may be The Ship of Lights, or The Final Five, or maybe even inhabitants of Earth. Who says they are not related in any way, maybe the Final Five are from The Ship of Lights. Just a thought. Starbuck 00:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
There does seem to be higher forces at work here, little touches here and there, perhaps it's the Lords of Kobol trying to protect their sons and daughters from self-annihilation. Matthew 21:19, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I can see only one plausible way that the Galactica could reach Earth, is that is they find an attempt to reclaim Earth that is so ruined from pollution and global warming as to be uninhabitable, and all humanity upon it extinct... because the clues all point to Kobol being inhabited from Earth... but could it be done with a gene pool of only 40,000 individuals? [The Eternal Squire]

rather than the other way around. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.142.130.46 (talk) 21:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC).

Yeah, that idea has crossed my mind too - the humanoid Cylons - are at least modeled after beings that are from the Ships of Light - somehow starting the war - testing humanity's resolve in maybe hopes the ones who make it to Earth can ascend to a higher state of being or something. It would help explain a great many things. Cyberia23 04:30, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I really do hope that they don't ruin the whole hard sci-fi deal by resorting to magical beings who can visit you in your dreams FredTheDeadHead 22:30, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Given the foreshadowing of the eject handle, and the fact the current opinion is the Cylon trail can be seen by Apollo in the one scene (I'm withholding final judgement on that till someone freeze frames it and uploads it, but for now I'll humor that belief), I'm betting she ejected and got picked up by the Cylons. Then again maybe we find out she was a Cylon, or one of the 5. While I think shock value death is a little overplayed in this new series, I just don't buy them smoking Starbuck without more behind it. Even if she's really dead dead, more will come of this and as much as we want, none of us are going to predict what it will be. Hell I got 10 bucks says the writers don't even know where they're going with it all yet in the long run.

[edit] Few curious things

I picked up a couple of possible foreshadowing references from first season as I watched the DVD. When Leoben is trapped with Adama on Ragnar, Leoben says: "Maybe the Cylon's are God's punishment for the human race." - If "God" is among the final five then perhaps the theory that the Cylons and the "Ships of Light" - or beings like them - are the same thing, or that they infiltrated the Cylons after the war and "upgraded" to become the destroyers of humanity. Leoben also says that Humans played God when they made the Cylons - could "God" be jealous and angry by that?

Another is in "Flesh and Bone" when Adama gives Starbuck the job of interrogating the captured Leoben from the Gemenon Traveller - Adama says (mysteriously) "Be careful, he has an agenda and a goal you won't understand until later." More foreshadowing? Cyberia23 22:57, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The talk page is for

Article discussion, IE: things wrong with it, improvements, not for discussion about the episode itself. Find a forum for that.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Somebody (talk • contribs).

Didums, so why you posting irrelevant banter, eh!? Matthew 22:25, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Somebody. There are plenty of forums on the web for this kind of thing- article talk pages should be used for talking about improvements to the article- see WP:TALK. Badgerpatrol 11:43, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps you should discuss the article then? Don't preach what you don't obey. Matthew 11:47, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Given that I originally tried in fact to pare down this discussion (by rm'ing your PA above) and was then reverted by you, I think the pot is calling the kettle black, Matt. Let's all get on with actually editing articles, eh? Badgerpatrol 11:51, 12 March 2007 (UTC)