Talk:MacvsWindows
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This article was nominated for deletion on 27 March 2006. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
[edit] Repeated deletes by a "Contributor" from XvsXP.com
"It should be noted that all owners (Dan Pouliot [original owner but no longer involved in the site’s operation], and James Scariati and Michael Moriarty [current owners]) of the site have openly admitted in their forums that they are primarily Mac users and advocates. Another area of criticism is that even though the site claims to incorporate “freely released updates from the manufacturer”, it takes but a bit of research on the site to see that many major releases from Microsoft are missing and that the final conclusions and scores in a number of sections favor the Mac OS due to these omissions. Examples of missing "freely released", downloadable Microsoft content for Windows XP:
Windows Defender
Visual Studio Express (Visual Web Developer Express, Visual Basic Express, Visual C# Express, Visual C++ Express, Visual J# Express, and SQL Server 2005 Express)
Virtual PC
Virtual Server R2
FolderShare
Sysinternals Utilities
Windows Media Player 11
Windows Live Toolbar
Windows Live Messenger 8.0
XML Notepad 2007
Digital Image Starter Edition 2006
PowerShell
MechCommander 2
Zune Theme
Carioca Rummy
(the list of absent Microsoft add-ons and updates for XP is substantially longer but this short list suffices to show the problems with the current XvsXP.com. Via the XvsXP.com forums, the above items [and many others not listed] have been brought to the attention of the site owners many times over several years and little action has been taken to fix the omissions.)
Windows Vista was released on November 8, 2006 and it has not yet been added to the comparison. XvsXP.com forums include commentary from the site administrators and owners that Vista may not be added until Apple ships its next generation operation system, Leopard. This delay should be compared to Mac OS 10.4 Tiger data being added within two weeks of its release.
It should also be pointed out that the site does not include public beta releases, which is another area that would likely see Windows score higher than the Mac OS since Microsoft’s development process provides more transparency, more beta releases, and earlier releases in the development cycle."
It is unacceptable bias to have a contributor (Paul Cyr) from XvsXP.com deleting the above criticism here on another public site/ reference source. The above material is heavy on fact and light on opinion and is a major complaint discussed in XvsXP.com's own forums. The criticism should remain until XvsXP.com makes changes to their comparison. Ricktempest 00:41, 6 December 2006 (UTC) RickTempest
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ricktempest (talk • contribs) 00:37, 6 December 2006 (UTC).
Incorrect: the above data is well researched from many hours of review of XvsXP.com and a thorough understanding and usage of both platforms. The above listed items are missing from many of the relevant categories compared on XvsXP.com. The date of Vista's release is a verifiable fact. The Tiger updates on XvsXP.com are verifiable. The owners stated computer usage and advocacy positions are verifiable from reading the XvsXP.com forums.
As for the point of view position, isn't that an odd statement coming from a long time "contributor" from XvsXP.com? The omissions on XvsXP.com are verifiable and conflict with the stated policy of the comparison site. It is not a point of view, but rather an observable historical trend on XvsXP.com.
All of the presented data is accurate. Care to dispute it with facts instead of simply removing it? Using more detail rather than less simply makes the criticism section more comprehensive and hence, more accurate and informative for Wikipedia readers looking for further information on XvsXP.com without having to invest an unreasonable amount of time in researching the problems for themselves. Ricktempest 04:03, 6 December 2006 (UTC) RickTempest
- Well since you feel the information is accurate and there are sources for it, perhaps you could WP:VERIFY it? Paul Cyr 06:02, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
I certainly can verify the data since you will not dispute the material but instead put the burden on me. Are you asking for all of the material to be a set of hyperlinks? Let me get this straight though: are you a contributor on XvsXP.com? Did you create this entry on Wikipedia? Do you guard it as your personal property? Can you discredit what I have added to the criticism? Can you be specific about what you want verified so I don't waste my time trying to satisfy unreasonable demands? Why are you threatening me with a three revert rule when you are the one doing the reverting? In case you missed it, I am trying to enhance the article with more detailed information. Since you do not claim any inaccuracies, but instead simply remove the material without a discussion (I had to begin the talk sessions), I have to assume that as a contributor at XvsXP.com, you for some reason would rather hide criticism of a project you are personally attached to. I would appreciate clear and complete answers to the above questions so we can better inform the public of your motives. Ricktempest 14:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
- All I ask is that you follow Wikipedia policies when adding content by making sure it is properly sourced and verifiable. The burden is on you when you wish to add content. In addition, please also read the No personal attacks policy. Saying that I am protecting the page as my own because of my involvement is a personal attack. And just to appease your questions, I am listed as a contributor at XvsXP.com, however if you look at my posts using the tool in my profile, you'll note I have been inactive on the site for quite some time. My motives (if they exist) are irrelevant if the information you add is properly sourced and verifiable, as they would be justified for inclusion. Paul Cyr 19:56, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Sources:
XvsXP.com Comparison Scope: http://www.xvsxp.com/introduction/scope.php
Freely Available Releases for XP from Microsoft: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/search.aspx?displaylang=en
List of included and missing features on XvsXP.com: http://www.xvsxp.com/finalscore/index.php
Vista Release Date: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2006/nov06/11-08VistaRTM.mspx
Apple’s OS X 10.4 Release Date: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_v10.4
Data on OS X 10.4 added to XvsXP.com within two weeks: http://web.archive.org/web/20050514082352/http://www.xvsxp.com/
Owner’s Statement of Vista Delay for Comparison against Leopard: http://www.xvsxp.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6439&st=15#
Apple’s pattern as a closed or secret developer of new products: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Home/DC68CEBA-4A72-4467-A61B-08A52A07067F.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_computer#2005_to_present:_The_Intel_partnership http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Developer_Connection http://online.wsj.com/article/SB115146095308592693.html
Owner’s Mac Stance: Dan Pouliot http://www.danpouliot.com/resume.pdf
James Scariati http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=11000AYUK3US&page=3 http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=11000AYUK3US&page=5 http://daguy.deviantart.com/
Michael Moriarty http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=mpMoriarty+&btnG=Search http://forums.macnn.com/members/mpmoriarty/
Ricktempest 15:26, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Fascinating how this works:
Contributor from XvsXP.com creates an entry on Wikipedia. Most of it without clear verification. A reader clarifies material in the Criticism section. Instead of a community effort to get things right, we get delete after delete with little in the way of communication or assistance. Data is provided to verify the information (besides, the deleter already knows the accuracy of the new information) and yet again we get a delete and now also a tag of "The neutrality of this section is disputed". Thanks for all the friendly advice and help. I guess we can keep playing your game and by the time we are done I'll be a Jedi Wikipedia Poster. Ricktempest 01:25, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
- Or instead of throwing out a bunch of hyperlinks, you could have added and properly sourced the information. I provided you with numerous Wikipedia polices explaining how to do this. Your refusal to follow policy is preventing the information from being added. I'll spell it out for you one more time since you haven't been following the policies.
- You add information.
- At the end of that information you add a proper source for it.
Isn't that simple? Paul Cyr 02:21, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
- It should be noted that Ricktempest was previously banned from XvsXP's forums and is the author of a website set up to criticise the way XvsXP is run. Examples of this can be seen here: http://pcversusmac.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=d4d858432a1c25559ed6c1cff6b85c19 While the comments made should be considered, they should also take into account the context in which they are made given the history of the user with the website. Pilky 20:15, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] This article does not belong in Category:Software Comparison
The category is for NPOV articles that show comparisons between software. It is NOT for an article about an arguably non-NPOV website that compares software. Bige1977 00:52, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
