Talk:Mackem

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Reviewed version: October 10, 2007

Contents

[edit] Text

I'm aware of the text on:

http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/18/messages/864.html

...concerning the word 'Mackem' - I am the actual copyright holder of the text on the bulliten board where you found the information and it was me who posted there.

I only discovered 'Wikipedia' recently and decided if the Geordies could have a mention, so could the Mackems. If you look at the top of the page, it clearly states that this is the Discussion Forum section.

The original is on my own website at:

http://mysite.freeserve.com/kathmandu/safc/rivalry.htm

However, to avoid any problems, I will significantly change it and provide a link to both the bulliten board and my own website.

Ian (alias 'Beefy_SAFC')

[edit] Origons of the Word

I can't confirm this, but I was told by a Geordie that the word "Mackem" comes from the fact that Geordies think people from Sunderland are stupid, so "ye can mackem do this and ye can mackem do that" Emoscopes 15:31, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Nah, Geordies are the stupid ones - you couldn't even build a ship right. We Mak'ed 'em, you Tak'ed 'em. The fitting out of them was all we could trust you with.

I would more define a mackem as a subset of the greater group of geordie which covers people from the whole of the Tyne & Wear area (not just the county, the area including much of Co.Durham and southern Northumbria). Also though in modern terms with football being all thats important in this this has become distorted but in actual fact a geordie is not someone from Newcastle but someone from the coal mining areas of Co.Durham- due to the terms origin from the miners. And historically Sunderland has been part of Co.Durham. --Josquius 17:46, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

That would be incorrect. Mackems and Sunderland are completely seperate from Newcastle and Geordies regardless of what outsiders think. Mackems arent a subset of geordies, as there are far more mackems than there are geordies (compare populaces of Newcastle with Sunderland) and logic would point to the fact that it would, in fact, be completely the other way round if it werent to popular belief.

I first heard the term Makem in the mid senenties; my ex-husband was a shipwright and took offence as being called a Makem. he felt that it was an insult originating in Newcastle and derived from the wwearside accent where words like 'make' and 'take' become 'mak' and 'tak'. However I grew up in Sunderland and pronouce those words as mayk and tayk. 82.27.204.112 16:41, 24 December 2005 (UTC) Lee 24 December 2005

If you can prove this, please get in touch with the BBC and the Oxford English Dictionary, as linked in the article. Regards, ProhibitOnions 18:26, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Article need updating... The term dates at least to 1988

The article needs updating to take into account what was revealed on Monday January 9's Balderdash and Piffle that the term can be dated back to at least 1988 where it was used in the Sunderland Echo, there is also an example of the term tak 'em and mak 'em being used in 1973 to be considered. here is the OED's draft entry for Mackem GracieLizzie 16:21, 10 January 2006 (UTC) (A proud Mackem)

Yes, although this usage suggests the term was new, with no consensus as to spelling. I've taken out this newly added paragraph, as it is unencyclopedic and sounds like an argumentative talk page entry:

The actuality is that a 'mackem' was the man who would 'mack' (make) the ship's rivets, and the other person - mentioned here - the 'tackem'- was the feller who took the rivets to the riveter - in fact this was a skilful operation because, as the ship grew upwards, he would have to 'hoy' (throw) the red hot rivets throught the air for them to be equally skilfully caught. Riveting was common from the late 1870s to about 1940 when welding superceded this method of construction. Incidentally, 'Geordie' was not a name confined to Newcastle folk, on the contrary, it was a term derived from "Georges" who were the men who sailed the coal barges, and these, as mentioned elsewhere, sailed from both the Tyne and the Wear.(GHT - 29/12/05)

While it's possible this is true, it needs to be supported. After all, we're dealing with a possible folk etymology. The 1973 reference cited in the OED ("We still 'tak 'em and mak 'em and ye canna whack 'em'") gives no indication that Mackem (in any form) was in use to describe people at the time, although (as the OED indicates) it does lend support to the theory that that is the origin of the phrase. ProhibitOnions 17:07, 10 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Category: Wikipedians in Tyne and Wear

Thought I'd mention this - there's a category, [[Category: Wikipedians in Tyne and Wear]], and so far I'm the only one in it. This can't be right (I live in Berlin as it is), so Geordies and Mackems, please add yourself to it. ProhibitOnions 23:36, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] W

How is the 'w' at the end of a sentence pronounced? --Mister Six 08:01, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Its not a mackem thing, its a geordie thing, but I can tell you that its pronounced 'wuh', as in a lower-case W. 'tuh, uh, vuh, WUH, ex, yuh, zuh' Thats how I did as a child anyway. Very hard to recall it now I say the alphabet properly but I hope you understand. Mackems do not say this.. its more 'our so-and-so' nor wor.

[edit] Pronunciation of "oo" sound, and Film

The main article is incorrect in saying that:

School - (Geordie: rhymes with Cool and Rule), (Mackem: split into two syllables, and a short e sound (as in wet) is added after the oo sound to :emphasise the L, i.e. skoo-ell). Note: This is also the case for words ending in -eul such as a 'Cruel' and 'fuel' which are turned into croo-:el and few-el, although 'vowel-adding' in this way is also a component of Geordie ('school' becoming 'sch-yew-l', &c). This 'extra syllable' :occurs in other words spoken in a Mackem dialect, ie. Film becomes "fill-im".

The mackem versions are actually pronounced "scew-el", "crew-el", "rew-el" etc.

It is not only Mackems who pronounce "Film" as "fill-im". This is a north-east wide pronunciation, i.e. it is the same in Northumberland, Tyne + Wear, and Durham

Geordies also use this

I'm not sure what distinction you're trying to make here? 'crew-el' to me looks like it would be pronounced exactly like 'croo-el'...? --Oolong 15:46, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wearside

I've added an article for 'Wearside' if anyone fancies a gander, it's canny basic right now so if people can help me to expand it. Gazh 09:04, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Added Famous Mackems List

Help me build it. Gazh 12:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I have changed Bobby Thompson entry to correctly state he is from sunderland - penshaw is part of sunderland and is three miles away from houghton-le-spring unlike what was stated in article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.210.140.178 (talk) 15:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

   Could it not be considered that Joseph Swan is a famous mackem since he is from sunderland and is the inventor of the electric light bulb.

[edit] Failed "good article" nomination

This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of October 11, 2007, compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?: See the peer review for more info.
2. Factually accurate?: Ref 1 needs more information. "The term could also be a reference..." is still unreferenced.
3. Broad in coverage?: Doesn't even talk that much about the rivalry between them and the Geordies. That needs a whole section of info.
4. Neutral point of view?: Yes.
5. Article stability? Yes.
6. Images?: Clarify why the image of the bridge is important in the caption, explain what it has to Mackems.


When these issues are addressed, the article can be renominated. If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to take it to a Good article reassessment. Thank you for your work so far. — T Rex | talk 03:41, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Heather Mills

Hello I would like to address a concern here, I have noticed that Heather Mills is in the list of famous mackems. Now we all know she's from Washington, however on one of her ranting GMTV interviews she claimed she was a geordie, so should we shift this from the page or not? The sunder king 15:21, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes. The lines are vague up there anyway, if she wants to claim Geordie she should probably be removed from the list. Gazh (talk) 07:34, 23 November 2007 (UTC)