From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is part of WikiProject Macintosh. This means that the WikiProject has identified it as an article pertaining to the Macintosh, but is not currently working to improve it. WikiProject Macintosh itself is an attempt to improve, grow, standardize, and attain featured status for Wikipedia's articles related to Macintosh and Apple Inc. We need all your help, so join in today!
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the assessment scale.

[edit] Evidences that deserve to be added

There is a quarrel regarding the trivia news about Star Trek IV the movie. Rumors said that Macintosh Plus had an appearance in the movie only by chance. There should be an Amiga instead of a Macintosh in the scene of the glass factory. Movie makers infacts aimed at Amiga badly, but wanted it for free, while Commodore Inc. demanded them to buy one. Apple Computers seized the opportunity and led them a Macintosh for free.

These rumors clearly should be false, because at Paramount Pictures Studios already were in possession of some Amigas. It is obvious that movie makers couldn't ask for free what they already possessed.

Infacts Amiga made its very decent walk-on appearance in the cast of Star Trek IV, as it "played" the "character" of the Vulcanian Super Computer that Spock uses to aid himself in re-training the Ways of Logic. The Amiga-based vulcanian computer shows also its speech capabilites although Amiga chassis and logo were not directly shown or presented in any way.

When watching Star Trek IV movie any spectator experienced in Amiga could easily recognize the Amiga Garnet Font used by ancient AmigaOS versions, scrolling on the multiple screens of the Vulcanian future computer.

With this evidence that some Amigas were already property of Paramount Pictures and also well used and appreciated, then it is certainly "logic" to suppose that the crew of the movie had no reason to ask Commodore to borrow some machines.

Reasoning on these facts, it shows clearly that Apple must have paid to had its bestselling computer presented in the movie with the logo "Apple Macintosh" clearly shown, as stated by main rules of promoting any products inside movies, and as requested by advertising contracts.

So what? Graham 23:49, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

So, he who contributes wikipedia (if he wants to preserve the original spirit of a true encyclopedia, i.e. balanced, and "super partes") then, if new proofs are discovered (which evidenced that original story should be false), then the contributor should report in the invoice file of the encyclopedia the new facts and drop ancient ones...

...or at least he could also report both ancient facts and new evidences and distinguish first from the second fact. The contributor also needs to make it clear to the readers.

Regarding our question:

The trivia news about Star Trek, Macintosh Plus and Amiga are a very old story. It was reported also by ancient Amiga websites.

But I found a proof that these trivia news could not be true, because I spotted Amiga fonts in the movie.

And this is an objective evidence.

Any person could rent the Star TrekIV DVD, or buy the video-cassette of the movie and check by himself for the Amiga fonts used in the scene of Spock training Logic.

So if Amiga was used during the making of that movie... and more it was in possession of movie makers...

...then the gossip as it was reported (i.e. that at Paramount they asked Commodore for a computer, Commodre refused, and then movie makers received a Macintosh Plus for free by Apple) it should be false...

This new proofs also demonstrated that the appearance of Macintosh Plus into Star Trek IV was nothing than a simple advertising campaign inside a movie running in the main commercial circuit of cinema. --Raffaele Megabyte 17:15, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Again, I say: So What? This stuff is an infinitesimal dot on an infinitesimal dot on the edifice of human culture. It's simply Minutiae. It wasn't very interesting at the time, and it certainly isn't now, nearly 20 years later. Far from being "evidence that deserves to be discussed", it's just boring cruft of interest only to a tiny handful of nerdy Amiga fanboys. The article is about the Macintosh Plus. It's not about Star Trek, or Hollywood studios' product placement policies, etc. The Star Trek trivia is barely interesting enough on its own to warrant a mention, but since it is at least relevant to the article, it stays. Adding further digressions about Amigas or some perceived conspiracy about whose products got placed, etc is just tedious, dull and irrelevant. Have you got the point yet? Who cares whether Amigas were owned by the movie makers? Honestly, do I give a fuck about what kind of watch the cameraman's wife wears? And how it might be different to the one actually used by an actor in one of the same films? Of course not, so how is this any more interesting? Wikipedia isn't meant to be a depository for every tiny mindless detail of life, it's meant to stick to the essential facts and be interesting and informative. If you want to discuss this silly little point, please go and do so on any number of unread Amiga fanboy sites out there. It has no place here. Got it? Graham 23:42, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

No my dear. Someone before you, posted these rumors on this encyclopedia because he believed these news were funny or maybe he was trying to present to all readers a supposed Commodore poor figure. Certainly it was only a macholic nerdish fanboy, or similar. Or I think so he was, because he who wrote trivia in origin was not certainly acting as an honest good mac user.

It was clearly written and whole trivia made a tour round the world, because a very big number of sites worldwide reported entire "macintosh plus story" from wikipedia.

Is it an interesting old curiosity aged 20 years ago? Is that what you said to justify your deletions? Yes, it is! But people still read of it nowadays because of wikipedia.

(And also remember that it puts some little discredit on another platform currently on the market, produced from a different firm than Commodore).

Was it funny? Isn't it? I believe that you also laughed at it. But when someone proofs you that things were different (and supported his statements with evidences), then you cry and claim it is "minutiae". Nice try.

If you want to be honest you must quote WHOLE STORY, and not delete it because it just become "embarassing" for your beloved platform.

Also with your offensive behaviour and your lack of arguments you demostrate how far you are from the spirit of truth that an encyclopedia must offer to readers and how far you are from the policies of wikipedia.

You infinged neutral point of view, while you claimed for it when you deleted my first modification in the page.

"Lack of neutrality as an excuse to delete" rule

Re-read: [NPOV rules]

(And the original Macintosh-Amiga trivia also infringed NPOV rules)

You infringed also the rule of "making omissions explicited" when I changed the page and added the link to this discussion where I moved entire quarrel about the trivia, to leave all the page related only to macintosh topic.

I made the link to inform any reader that a discussion exists? And again you deleted my post.

Seems from your behaviour that you want that nobody could read this addendum to the ancient trivia news.

The move you made, forced me to revert to old version of article to keep a minimal information about the story as narrated in the beginning.

And again you overwhelmed me by deleting entire part of the trivia regarding Amiga. How pathetic. Are you trying to avoid the readers even to know this fact?

I think this is the most important infringment you made. It is very offensive for other readers to be kept away from informations, and a brave manipulation.

Please re-read: [Make_omissions_explicit rules]

And last but not the least, you had an offensive behaviour when you made these two statements:

- "Far from being "evidence that deserves to be discussed", it's just boring cruft of interest only to a tiny handful of nerdy Amiga fanboys."

- "Who cares whether Amigas were owned by the movie makers? Honestly, do I give a fuck about what kind of watch the cameraman's wife wears?"

I tried to resolve our quarrel keeping it in the talk page only, but now I am very tired of your behaviour.

I want to advise you that later this morning (CET) I will revert back the article of Macintosh Plus as of its origins, BUT I will also add a comment into brackets advicing readers that a quarrel exists on talk page about Mac Plus Trivia.

This is my last move and I think it matches perfectly rules of wikipedia and is a duty we both have with readers.

If you will delete it again I will open a Request for Mediation case.

Sincerely, --Raffaele Megabyte 04:05, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Meh. Whatever. To be honest very little of what you actually say here makes any sense to me, and I'm a bit too tired to be bothered to try and parse it any more. Go ahead and request mediation if you wish - I stand by what I say, it has no relevance to the article. In addition there is no purpose in adding text to the article which points up a so-called "argument" on the talk page - there is already a link to the talk page - it's at the top of EVERY page. See it? If you change the article, I will change it back. It has nothing to do with being a Mac fan or otherwise (I have never argued from that perspective, so where you got that idea I cannot fathom). It has everything to do with what content an encyclopedia article about the Macintosh Plus should contain - it should not contain irrelevant detail three or four degrees of separation removed. That is all. Give it up - if you care to check you will see that I have made a vast number of contributions to Wikipedia, and in general not drawn too much controversy. That means on the whole I know what I'm talking about. Let me have a look at YOUR contributions.. hmmmm, I see. It's clear that YOUR motivation is because you are an Amiga fan, so you are hardly the most impartial judge of what is interesting in the context of an article about a Macintosh model.

If you really need to put this information into Wikipedia, then the relevant article would be that for the Star Trek film in question. Don't you see that? The information you're trying to add is not ABOUT the Mac Plus, it's ABOUT the Star Trek film. That is the top and bottom of my objection to its inclusion here. Graham 07:43, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Raffaele, trivia about the usage of Amiga computers in one of the Star Trek movies may be interesting to some people, but it does not belong in the Macintosh Plus article. Whatsoever. It may possibly belong in the Star Trek IV article, though I doubt it's worth the extra heft that it would add to the article. Tempshill 18:45, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Dear Tempshill: These rumors about the greed of Commodore Computers Inc. haunted Amiga since 1986. Now that I found evidences that history was different from that written by the "winners", I feel insulting it all.

This is not a matter of "revisionism", this is a matter of justice, because unfortunately (during last years) a lots of sites worldwide reported whole Mac Plus file from Wikipedia spreading worldwide a false story ABOUT AMIGA ( - And remember: Not Macintosh but Amiga!!! - It is the Amiga which was present notwithstanding in a Macintosh related article - How bad!). Sure the gossip reported in Mac Plus file at Wikipedia it is a damage for the image of Amiga which still exists and it is currently sold as a commercial product, even in a niche market.

Also I find very irritating the behaviour of GRAHAMUK which tends to hide informations to the readers of Wikipedia.

So (as I promised here in this discussion last month) just some minutes ago, I decided to mail moderators because when I arrived here I find that GRAHAMUK deleted again my modifications realized to match back "original version" of Mac Plus Trivia Section and also because he was so "kind" (irony) to call me "a troll". --Raffaele Megabyte 10:07, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Rewording of Heat Issues section

hi. i've reworded and expanded on the heat issues, added a warning and moved the vmac emulator info to the trivia section. i'm not sure if the instructions on disassembling the mac plus belong in this article or not but rather than try to make that decision i decided a warning was at least warranted. feel free to edit/delete/whatever as necessary. taygeta^☆(talk) 03:23, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure repair of a device that could possibly be lethal (if that's even true) is the sort of thing to be included in an encyclopedia Alastairward 22:34, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] vMac

vMac has almost been put on the Nintendo DS

http://lazyone.drunkencoders.com/wordpress/ (scroll near the bottom) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.104.205.76 (talk) 03:54, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

hey raffy - just because paramount POSTPRODUCTION had an amiga doesnt mean they had one to put in the movie. and besides, they're still making macs and amiga went out of business a long time ago.