Talk:Macedonian Australian

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Contents 1 People on the list 2 Querry 3 clarification 4 Can we have a bit more civility here please? 5 "Not to be confused with..." 6 A good tidy up needed

[edit] People on the list

Regarding certain people listed on the article page who are frequently removed and readded by reverts:

Chris Joannou - I've found no solid evidence of him being either Greek or Slavomacedonian, so it'll be best to simply say he's Australian and leave it at that.

Tom Petsinis - I have found several pages on Google which suggest that he is actually Greek Macedonian: [1], [2], [3]. He was born in Greek Macedonia, can speak both languages, but identifies himself as Greek according to the third source (a quote from himself).

Arch Tambakis - Can't find anything about him.

Paul Delianis - Likewise.

Peter Daicos - He was picked for the Greek AFL Team of the Century, which would imply some sort of Greek heritage. Also appears frequently in interviews for the Neos Kosmos English Edition based on his Greek heritage [4]

Bobby Despotovski - He is Serbian: [5], [6], [7], [8].

Stan Lazaridis - His parents hail from Greek Macedonia [9], [10]. See also WP:MWNB#Stan_Lazaridis and Talk:Stan_Lazaridis for further discussion.

Alex Marcou - No sources supporting Slavomacedonian heritage. -- Greekfire 06:20, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Len Pascoe - Full name Leonard Stephen Pascoe Born February 13, 1950, Bridgetown North, Western Australia Current age 56 years 176 days Major teams Australia, New South Wales Also known as changed name from Leonard Stephen Durtanovich Batting style Right-hand bat Bowling style Right-arm fast

I'm quite sure that is of Croatian Origin from the Dalmatia region —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.49.232.252 (talk • contribs) 15:28, August 8, 2006

[edit] Querry

This article needs disambiguations (there are thousands of Greeks who also call themselves Macedonian and have demostrated as such). There is no mention of 'Slav Macedonians', that is the appelation under which they demonstrated and organised themselves after WWII. Other points also. So I suggest, {{fact}} and/or {{totallydisputed}} and/or {{POV}}. I am not, dear friends and fellow editors, challenging the validity of this article to appear or the fact that there are thousands of Australians who refer to themselves as 'Macedonian' in the sense of 'not Greek'. Politis 12:30, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] clarification

The article says, "Macedonians have been arriving in Australia since the late 1880s". I have seen no evidence that the people arriving from Balkans referred to themselves (not by others) as 'Macedonian' in an ethnic sense. To the best of my knowledge, this only occurs after WWII. Also, it would seem that only Greek citizens from Greek Macedonia called themselves 'Macedonians' or more often 'Slav Macedonians' - at least in the early stages. Politis 16:22, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

There are some (wilfull?) distortions in the article. For instance, in 1994, it was agreed to abolish any ethnicity associated with club names. Therefore, no football team bears the name of its ethnic origin or its flag. Politis 11:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I am a Macedonian in Australia....never have I heard a Macedonian refer to themselves as slav Macedonian. Nor have I heard anyone from that part of the world call us Slav Macedonian, except for Greeks when they are arguing there propaganda. There is only one Macedonia, a Macedonia for the Macedonians......I love hearing this propagandanistic nonsense, because Greeks try so hard to make others belive in it, but it is quite obvious that people and Countries are strating to see through these obvious lies........MAKEDONIJA ZA MAKEDONCITE....

Sorry my friend but try as hard as you want, you can not change history. I have visited all the ancient sites in Macedonia and have only found GREEK writing in every instance on all the stones, the tablets and every temple in site. To say that there is and has only ever been one Macedonia and that is the one currently claimed by slav speaking people is ridiculous. You have just been lucky to settle in an area which has had such a long HELLENISTIC history but to try and claim genetics from the original GREEK SPEAKING Macedonians is theft. Why don't you just accept the fact that you are from slav origin the sooner you do this the the more you will belong. My family came here in 1948 from Macedonia in Greece and when asked their origins in the census they claimed they were Macedonian which of course they were. At that stage there was no need to differentiate because slav Macedonia did not exist it was Yugoslavia........HELLENUS FOR EVER —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.190.24.166 (talk) 13:06, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

In addition to this, the Macedonians of Alexanders times settled in many parts of the then known world including Egypt. It is strange that after 2500 years, there are people descendant from these Macedonians in Alexandria and of course they speak Greek as well as Arabic, French, etc. There is not even a sniff of Slavic in their dialect so if they spoke the language you Slavs claim they did, why has this not survived till today as the Greek has. There are also areas in Afganistan that have remnants from the same period, they also speak Greek and sing songs handed down generations which are also Greek. Once again, no sniff of Slavic. Identity theft is not a good solution to your problems, the sooner you accept that you are from a Bulgarian origin, the better it would be for everybody. Maybe you should accept the name Southern Slavia and build on that..........HELLENUS FOR EVER —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.190.26.120 (talk) 12:27, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Can we have a bit more civility here please?

I am noticing a few edit wars on this site, from all sides with some pretty dumb nationalism. I have no ancestral roots to either Greece or Macedonia and I am happy to arbitrate if you want a neutral observer. I am equally biased against everybody! Kransky (talk) 13:11, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I've already said what I wanted to say in the section above, which I wrote about a year ago, and no-one has seen fit to argue any of those points so it's only reasonable that they be reflected in the article, unless that anon or anyone else wants to find some sources to prove otherwise. Greekfire (talk) 10:42, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Not to be confused with..."

The portion which states "not to be confused with Macedonian Greek Canadians" is completely out of place since there is NO "Macedonian Greek Canadian" article and honestly how dumb can you be to confuse an ethnic and subgroup? Maktruth (talk) 07:10, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, "the title "ethnic Macedonian" should not be confused with "Greek Macedonian", referring to Greeks who come from the province of Macedonia in northern Greece."

This is subtle propaganda since there is no source for the statement and "Greek Macedonian" could in fact mean "ethnic Macedonian from/in Greece" believe it or not. Maktruth (talk) 07:12, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

The only subtle propaganda here is your suggestion that "Macedonian" can only have one meaning; yours. As for the "ethnic Macedonian from/in Greece" meaning, it's already covered in the article, ffs. You will be reverted in due course. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 07:27, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Kekrops, I stated Macedonian could mean many things [ie Greek Macedonian can mean Macedonian (ethnic) in Greece or Greek in Macedonia]... what I am stating is "Macedonian Greek Canadian" can mean many things 1) a Canadian who is 1/2 Greek and 1/2 Macedonian (ethnic) 2) a Canadian who has ethnic Macedonian (from Greek Macedonia) descent etc... Maktruth (talk) 07:45, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I also stated there is no "Macedonian Greek Canadian" article, which is true! So how are any of my claims propaganda? Maktruth (talk) 07:46, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

All I simply stated was to create a "Macedonian Greek Canadian" article or to create a subsection in "Greek Canadian" to include "Macedonian Greeks" therefore "Macedonian Greek Canadian" can revert there to better clarify things. Maktruth (talk) 07:50, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

We're talking about Aussies here, not Canucks. Pull yourself together. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 07:55, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Kekrops, its the same conversation over 3 articles "Aussie" "Canadian" and "American." So what I say here always applies to the other two and vise versa. Maktruth (talk) 07:58, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Exactly, which is why FP's compromise solution will stay. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 08:00, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I have restored the dablink, which is the result of a consensus at Talk:Macedonian Canadians supported by users such as User:Future Perfect at Sunrise and User:BalkanFever who are hardly amenable to the Greek position on the Macedonian issue. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 10:54, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't care either way here, but 3rdAlcove removed it as "excessive". BalkanFever 12:37, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't see how. There are more self-identifying Macedonians in Australia of the Greek persuasion than not. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 12:40, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

^ lol. Köbra ^Könverse 12:45, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

What's so funny? According to this article there are 83,978 "ethnic Macedonians" in Australia, and according to Greek Australians 365,147 ethnic Greeks, i.e. the former (excuse the pun) group is 23% the size of the latter. That also happens to be, roughly, the percentage of the Greek population that lives in Macedonia. So the numbers of "ethnic Macedonians" and Greek Macedonians in Australia should be fairly even. But we know that the Macedonians form a disproportionately higher percentage of the Greeks in Australia than those in Greece, so their number must be somewhat higher. The point is that there is group of Macedonians in Australia that is just as large, if not larger, than the subject of this article. ·ΚΕΚΡΩΨ· (talk) 14:04, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually of the entire population in Australia only 109,989 were born in Greece, (regardless of ethnicity). And 23% of that is 25,297 people minus the 2,919 people who claim macedonian ancestry and were born in greece (who presumably are from greek macedonia) , you arrive at 22,378 people. Taking into regard chain migration the Greek Macedonians in australia could be as low as 10,000 people. There is a big difference 10,000 vs. 45,000 (by birthplace)[11]. Have you forgotten your Greek Cypriot and Greek Egyptian brothers, they cannot also claim to be Macedonians. Only 29.1 of people with Greek Ancesty were born in Greece. PMK1 (talk) 13:31, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A good tidy up needed

This article could do with a fix: duplicated information, spelling mistakes, punctuation mistakes, words used incorrectly, lists with no context etc. Kransky (talk) 10:05, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

• I believe the lists of churches and cultural organisations should be removed as per WP:NOTDIRECTORY --Matilda ^talk 10:58, 5 June 2008 (UTC)