Talk:Macchi C.202

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

AVIATION This article is within the scope of the Aviation WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Aviation Portal
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.

Contents

[edit] MC.202 was to P-40?

It is not so clear that MC.202 was superior than P-40, especially in low altitudes.It centairly was inferior than the Bf-109F with the same engine, slower and less agile in the vertical. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.142.43.8 (talk • contribs)

[edit] Flynght caracteristics

About flynght caracteristics of Macchi all is said is that it was excellent aircraft. But what is really true about is unclear. Sadly, even if a Macchi was sent in USA after capture, there aren't report, evaluations and so on.

As speed it was faster than Bf 109 with DB 601 engine, but let's consider the costruction (22000 hours of work) needed a lot of time to build the machine. Macchi 202 had a lot of curves, a streamlined fuselage with cockpit elevated, al to optimize the aerodinamic of the aircraft. So it was fast, and also, the flyng control were well armonized.

Having said that, Macchi had a low ratio kg/Hp, and high wing loading. Speed was excellent, but Ki.61, even if less 'curved' was almost as fast, with double armament and 30% more range. Surely, the best of the fighter with DB 601, but also the last.

How Macchi was capable to reach at 6000m. in less than 6 minus? The climbing capability is cited, but is tricky. Macchi 205 was much more powerful, with only machine.gun was capable to climb at 6 km in less than 6 minus but using maximum power and at 3260kg. The Macchi 205V Series III had a weight of 3400kg and at combat power (2300 or maybe 2600 r/min) climbed in seven minutes at 6 km. So the picture.

Let's consider that Me Bf 109E and F had DB 601 too, weighted a lot less (400kg empy) and minor wingload, and still, had time to climb at 6 km in 7 and 6 min. This is cleary absurd HIMO, because to equalize the thing Macchi 202 should had been compared with BF-109 carryng a 250 kg bomb. And let's consider, that the M205V climbed in 7 min. at 6 km in a combat and not emergency (2800 r./min) power, so with 300 kg but also 300hp less MC 202 should had been even slower. Luigi GOrrini stated that Spitfire was faster also in climb, even so the official figure are 6-7 min to 6100m.

As orizontal speed, Macchi was faster than Bf 109E, but not than Bf 109F. No wonder, because Bf 109E had a high drag. He 100V (DB 601 also) reached 670 kmh!

But as climbing, aerodinamics not really matter. Let's go to figures of Gloster Gladiator, G.Gauntlet, CR 42, Hurricane, P-47: all are stated at 9 min to 6-6,1 km. despite that in orizontal ranged from 370 to 690 kmh. How to explain? Because the work to do against gratity need power, and all these aircraft goes at 3 kg to 1 hp around.

So, Macchi 202 had around 2,7kg for hp, while Bf 109E and F reached 2,2-2,4. Lower wingload, higher w/p ratio, so imagine how could be that Macchi was faster than a Bf 109 E in climbing??

As P-40, it was a nimble aircraft, with light aileron. Sadly, nobody flown both it and Macchi. But at low level P-40 was a dangerous foe for everyone. Tactics are important also: between the success of fling tigers and the success of Marseille vs P-40 SAAF there are mainly factors of tactics more than everyting else.

One of the things to assured is also this: Italians had always short deliveries of weapons, mainly aircraft. So no unexperienced pilots flew MC 205 or 202, while on other airforces, a lot of inexperienced pilots flew Bf 109,Spit, Zero. So you could assume that results were differents. Macchi, Reggiane and G.55 were 'silver bullets', too few to equip mediocre pilots, think, GOrrini had the first Mc 205 after 3 years of airbattle. Not a guy that hadn't saw war. If all japs pilost were experienced as him, the A6M5 could had been even better results than A6M, instead was devasted.

I hope this could help.--Stefanomencarelli 15:07, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


I posted here this part of text promptly deleted by mr. Bzuk. I don't find anything NNPOV here, and i would discuss this BEFORE someone start to say: 'hey this is unsupported, this pov etc'.

[edit] Macchi and look departement

The fairness is a highly soggettive thing, but generally the comments made on MC.202/205 fighters were and are about their shape, are quite elegant, aggressive, well designed with a fuselage highly streamlined (Carestiano test pilot said, MC.205V was the best and fairest italian fighter, as example).

The huge nose gave to these fighters an aggressive shape, and the short aft fuselage continues over the tail surfaces in a fuse shape. The undercarriage, at ground, is wide and robust as well. The cockpit, like Formula 1 cars is above the fuselage, is in a characteristic 'hump' over that.

This shape wasn't thinked to fairness, but to maximize aerodynamic efficency, at heavy expense in complexity of building. The DB engine greatly allowed to make a compact design as well, but other DB fighters were less complex, like Bf-109, with an aft fuselage bigger and simpler (macchi had fuel tanks in the nose, Bf 109 not). Simple costruction was needed to have a huge number of airframe made, and Bf 109 beaten Macchi of 4:_1.

Macchis and Re.2005, much less G.55s are so largely considered the best looking fighter aircraft of Italy, marryng aerodynamic with a shape as streamlined and compact as possible. Other italian aircraft didn't match this result. MC.200 was in the best case considered 'pretty', thanks because the sharp motor ring and its bulges over pystons. RE.2001 was also considered quite pretty. Nobody is know to have wrote the same about Re.2000/2002/2003 and above all, G.50, among the less gracius italian figthers of all, and despite they were the ascendent of Re.2005 and G.55, 2 fighter literally 'elonged' and streamlined to have better aerodynamics thanks to DB 605 engine.

As wings, all italian aircraft except Reggiane had normal, conventional wing trapezioidal shaped, not really impressive in look nor originality. Perhaps the opposite in Spitfire, a classical 'fair fighter' that had a fuselage not so outstanding designed with a long and stright aft fuselage behind cockpit, but with elliptical, classical wings that were a real mark of these aircrafts, so almost all the best picture of Spit are portrait with the fighter pictured in a mode to better show (ex. in a turn) its large and very elegant wings. --Stefanomencarelli 10:19, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Latest edits

A newbie editor has undertaken a wholesale revision of this article which is rife with typos, spellos and referencing errors. It is way too much to edit all at once. Can others help in taking this article to an acceptable standard. I am reverting it to the state it was in before the massive overhaul. I have no problem in having a rewrite but it needs to be done systematically. FWIW Bzuk 04:03, 27 July 2007 (UTC).


I am the newbie and this is the text:


The Macchi C.202 Folgore (Italian: Lightning) was a World War II Italian fighter aircraft built by Macchi Aeronautica. The C.202 was a development of the earlier C.200 Saetta with a more powerful German Daimler-Benz DB 601 engine.

[edit] Development

The preference of the Italian military authorities for radial engines had led to the failure of the Italian aeronautical industry to develop more powerful and streamlined liquid-cooled engines during the second half of the 1930s [citation needed]. This is a weird fact, because italians had produced high powered engines for Schneider Trophy.

The Macchi MC.72 beaten world speed record with a refined design and an engine of 2800hp., the AS.6. But this extensive work to make excellent racer aircraft, strongly supported by Mussolini, wasn't good to make operational stuff. In fact, the wars of Spain and Ethiopia sucked much of money available, and embargo as well damaged economy and tecnology developements.

In fact, despite MC 72 and other advanced aircraft, the bulk of Regia Aereonautica was still equipped with biplane until 1941. In June 1940, the estimed force of fighters was around 300 CR 32, 300 CR 42, 120 G.50 and 156 MC.200, and except the first of them, all were radial engined with less than 1000hp. Isotta Fraschini produced excellent engines for MAS of around 1000hp, but failed to make modern engines for aircraft, despite Delta series of engines. Fiat Asso engines, used on CR.32 weren't fullowed by better stuff. At the end of '30s, except Isotta-Fraschini, all italian engine producer made old french, british and USA radial model on license.

The experience of Schneider Trophy, as happened like Formula 1 racers and 'normal cars', weren't translated in industrial production for many reason, as the high cost of big series, the difficult to mantein, the very short life of engines, the vulnerable freezing systems and many others.

At the end, with Merlin and DB-600/601 all around, Italy Airforce asked for a powerful engine for aircraft. But nobody managed to do so. Piaggio radial engines, used on P.108, Re.2000 and 2002 never went reliable, expecially at the beginnings, Isotta Fraschini had inline engines but of obsolescent design. The result to reach quickly a satisfactory engine was to build the DB 601 by Alfa Romeo on licence, this was managed after a lot of trouble to learn how make a so sophistied and innovative engine.

Among the italians aircrafts, radial national engines were deserved to bombers and cargo, while DB-601 were sent to fighters line. Even so, never enough engines were built for the necessities. So, as example, was produced Re.2002, an alternative on Re.2001 Falco.

Macchi MC.202, designed by Mario Castoldi, flew in the summer of 1940 and quicly established to be the fastest italian aircraft. More, very few changements were needed before it entered in service 1 years after. On the contrary, Re.2001 needed a lot of refinements and 1 more year.


This forced Macchi Aeronautica to rely on the aging Fiat A.74 radial engine for its C.200 fighter. By 1941, the C.200, armed with two 12.7 mm machine guns and with a maximum speed of 504 km/h (270 knots, 315 mph), was obsolescent.

In July 1939, the Regia Aeronautica (Italian Air Force) requested the Officine Reggiane to build a Reggiane Re.2000 prototype equipped with a German Daimler-Benz DB 601A liquid-cooled supercharged inverted V-12 engine rated at 1,175 hp (815 kW). At the time, the most powerful reliable Italian inline engine was the 960 hp (715 kW) Isotta-Fraschini Asso XI RC.40, which was designed in 1936. As the result, in November 1939, Alfa Romeo acquired the license to produce the DB 601A.

Meanwhile, not waiting for production at Alfa Romeo factories, Aeronautica Macchi imported a DB 601A engine, and Macchi chief of design Mario Castoldi began work on mating the C.200 airframe with the German powerplant. The resulting C.202 made its first flight on 10 August 1940, two months after Italy's entry into World War II. To counteract the added torque of the more powerful engine, Castoldi extended the left wing by 20 cm (8 in).

[edit] Tecnical features

Castoldi, man of many experiences during several years of building racer aircrafts (Schneider Trophy), choosed to full explain his professional experience to obtain aerodynamic refinements in his projects. He tried successfully to sobstitute Celestino Rosatelli in as main projectist about fighter for Regia Aeronautica. His new project was simple, robust, small. The costruction was not a really innovating one, however, nor light. Complexity of design, cleary obsolescent and derived by previous experiences with wooden costruction adapted despite the thicker componets, make an aircraft non necessarly heavy, even if small and robust.

The empty weight of the new MC 202 was around 2400kg, then even more. It could appear quite modest compared to 4000kg of Hellcat, but it is very heavy compared to the 1800-2100 kg of fighters like Bf-109, Spitfire Mk I and Zero, the other '1000hp' fighters. This, surprising, didn't affected the speed (thanks to aerodinamic refinements) nor the agility (thanks to flight controls well balanced) but the useful weight was modest, so the aircraft was armed with only 2 mtg. Breda of 12,7 mm.: the same as C.R.32, a 600hp fighter of 1933!. Breda's are usually well recorded as reliable and with 'excellant ammunitions' but this should been relativized to all was available on international tecnology at those times.

Breda were heavy as Browning M2 aviation, the model from wich italian type derived. But Breda fired 12,7x81mm. 'Vickers' cartrige ammunition, not 99mm. and so, the energy at muzzle was 10.000 Joules vs 16.000. ROF was not satisfactory as well, and degradated by syncronizer by atleast 25%, so the output was around 18 rounds/second or 0,63 kg. HE ammunition didn't help as well: against light structures it was useful, not so with metallic, armoured, heavy machine like the '40s types. The weight of HE inside, 0,8gr. is around a tenth of a single 20mm. shell, so it was not minimally a match. British designers related for HE ammo from 20mm. and higher, and USA aviators preferred API ammo (Armour,Piercing, Incendiary) with a incendiary load of chemical instead of High-Explosive.

All the weaponry was fitted inside the big nose of the Macchi, over and behind the engine. The reserve of ammo was 700 rounds, teorically 750. The provision for 2 mtg. of 7,7mm. Breda in the wings was fitted by VII series onward, but this pair of machine-guns, 1000 rounds, made Macchi 100kg heavier at maximum weight. So they were usually deleted by pilots, also because these weapons were almost useless vs enemy aircraft in 1942.

A syncronizer made possible firing these weapons (not the wing's guns) trough the blade of the propeller, btu with 25% loss ROF (Rate of Fire). A collimator called San Giorgio, a reflection unit, was also fitted in the cockpit.

Fullowing a principle of aerodinamics similar to the Area rule, the mass and the volume were concentred in the anterior of fuselage. So from the nose to the pilot, there was both the weaponry, and the propulsion. The propeller was a 3 blades (Piaggio), costant speed. Then there was the Monsone, the DB-601 produced by A.R, and above it the pair of Bredas. After there was a fuel tank, self-sealing,of 370 lts., similar to Spitfire, and finally the ammo boxes. Behind the cockpit there was a real small part of fuselage, to make a shape similar to a modern submarine ('elonged drop'). Since the cockpit cannot be putten in this structure, this was elevated over the main fuselage, as happens in modern Formula 1 cars. Even so, this cockpit-so typical of italian fighters- and its characteristic 'hump', were cramped and never gave a good FOV to the pilot, also because there wasn't any mirror. The small part of aft fuselage until the tail conteined the reserve tanks (that bring, with 80 l, the amount to 430l., a bit more than 400l. of Bf.109), radio, oxigen and flight control wires.

All the velature was convenctional, with a single vertical tail, and wing of relatively convenctional design, with a pair of flaps and 2 elevators, but not slats. Undercarriage was classical as well: the 2 main elements were fitted in the wing, to have a big stability, expecially because MC.202 had an awful forward wiev once landed with its big nose. THe tail wheel was not retractable, however, but carenated.

The aircrat had not expecially features to show, except the complex, streamlined, aerodynamic shape of fuselage (payed with a more complex costruction than simpler aircraft such Bf 109). The cockpit was not pressurized, the radiogonimeter generally was not fitted. As armour, there was a armoured sit, self sealing tanks, but generally not an armoured windshield. This was few, but better than MC.200 that hadn't even the rear armour as standard (and no radio as well).

Costruction was made in a very complex manner, that was after all more economic than more sophistied tecnology, but taken too much time with 5 time compared to Bf-109E (usually rated at 4500-6000hrs while Macchi needed 22000 or more). Also the non-necessarly heavy structure, if helped to resist to offense of enemy, didn't helped to not waste precious light alloys (400kg heavier than Bf-109). All the aircraft was metallic, except control surfaces. Cantilever were 23 for every wing,with 2 wing spar. Main radiator was under the pilot's cockpit, but the oil's radiators were put on the nose, in a classical dustbin shape. Note well, normally it was only a oil radiator, but instead Macchi had 2 small.

[edit] Operational history

First Folgore prototype.
First Folgore prototype.

The Folgore was put into production using imported DB 601Aa engines, while Alfa Romeo set up production of the engine under license as the R.A.1000 R.C.41 Monsone (Monsoon). Due to initial delays in engine production, Macchi resorted to completing some C.202 airframes as C.200s with Fiat radial engines. Nevertheless, by late 1942, Folgores outnumbered all other fighter aircraft in the Regia Aeronautica.

Deliveries of the first production aircraft, C.202 Series I, to a specially formed conversion unit, 1º Stormo C.T., in Udine began in the Summer of 1941 and by November the C.202s made their appearances on the Libyan front. In addition to North Africa, the aircraft saw limited service on the Eastern Front where between 1941 and 1943, together with C.200s, they achieved an 88 to 15 victory/loss ratio.[1] Following the Armistice with Italy, C.202s were used as trainers in the Italian Social Republic. After the war two examples served as trainers at Lecce until 1947.

The C.202 inherited its predecessor's durability and easy, responsive flight controls (but not the autorotation tendency, even if not totally solved even in MC. 205). The clean aerodynamics offered by the inline engine permitted dive speeds high enough for pilots to encounter the then-unknown phenomenon of compressibility.[1] Although the C.202 could effectively fly against Hawker Hurricane, P-38 Lightning, P-39 Airacobra, Curtiss P-40 and even the Supermarine Spitfire at low altitudes, the aircraft's combat effectiveness was somewhat hampered by its weak armament.[1]


[edit] Airbattles

In terms of diffusion, Macchi equipped all the main fighter wings like 1, 4 and 51. This aircraft started his duty at mid. '41, but it was imployed in a battle not until the fall of that year, when several Macchi fought against one of the most feared british aircrafts: the hurricanes, before in Malta,with a british downed, then in North.Africa, while italians claimed 8 Hurricanes in the first fight. In trouth, only 4 were lost, equalling the debut of Bf-109E (also 4 victories over Hurricanes, 19 april 1941 in Cirenaica).[2]

The 'overclaiming' was all but extraordinary in all the airforces in WWII, but the weak armament of Macchi didn't helped to surely knock-down enemy aircrafts once hitten.

In the first occasion, 3 macchi of 4 Wing contrasted one of the frequent incursions of Hurricanes over Sicily, in that case, over the Comiso airfield, and after 12 am. they downing one of lt. Lintern, by Macchi of sottotenente Frigerio. It was 30 September 1941.[2]

The second happened 26 November 1941, while there was Operation Crusader. 19 Macchi of 9 Gruppo, 4 Stormo (Wing) were begun by 3 days in Africa, hurried by british offensive. Guided by capt. Larsimont (97 squadriglia) and Viglione Borghese (96 ima) 10 of these italians flew at 5000 m. and whipped a force of Hurricane Mk II, 229 and 238 Sqdn. Both the italians leaders were hitted by Hurricanes, but return to base in Martuba.

On british side, two Bf 109 were claimed by RAF, obviousely Viglione and Larsimont. Sqn. 238 had Hurricane lost: Sgt. knappet and sgt. kay were downed. The first was definitively missed, the second bailed out. Ltn. Kings force landed on desert, then re-entred in british lines in Tobruk after taken an abandoned italian tank. So he started with an Hurricane and returned with a M.13 tank, a bit better than nothing. Ltn. Currie crashed the plane at landing at Tobruk. Other Hurricanes may be damaged, but not destroyed.

This fight obtained also the greetings of Marshall Bastico. It seemed that the war could be stil won against british.

For all the 1942 Bf.109 and Macchi disputed vs. Allied airforce the skies of North Africa, some Macchi were sent in URSS, many were employed vs. Malta. With the fall of the year the enchancing of Allied was unresistible and then El-Alamein the final result was decided in Mediterranean, while Malta didn't surrended.

So Macchi fough in retreat until Tunisi and then, in defense of Sicily, Sardinia, Italy, versus a foe getting stronger day after day.

One of the desperate situation was experienced by Macchi of 2 gropus landed at Korba airfield from Italy. Of around forty that they were, forced to be concentrated both the two groups (7imo and 16imo) of 54 Stormo, in this tunisian airfield, in 8 may 1943 almost all were destroyed at the ground by Spitfires before they could do something and despite they were potential a powerful force. Because no trasport aircraft were still available, every fighter taken-off the day after, with 2 men inside, pilot and a tecnician. Only few (5 of 7imo and 6 of 16imo) were repaired for the day 10 may and escaped to Italy. Atleast one, manned by Lombardo, was destroyed and the two man inside were wounded after the crsh-landing on a beach near Reggio Calabria. a photo show better the catastrophe of Tunisian campaign: over a dozen Macchi 202s (1% of total built in 1940-44) rested in an abadoned airfield, dismantled in pieces to support the last few operative fighter or damaged beyound repair by air attacks.[3]

The rest of MC.202 fought at most to defend Sicily and Sardinia, and Naples. They cannot do the job, and they witnessed the bombing of Rome on that summer by masses of allied bomber versus that Macchis were severly undergunned. Results were poor, and MC 202 were sostituted by Bf 109, MC 205 and G.55 as soon as possible.

Several MC 202 have served also with Co-belligerant italian air force, and some were trasformed in MC 205. Other served in RSI aviation and Luftwaffe, but just as training fighter. Some were ordered by Switzerland, but none was delivered. Several, also, gone with Croatia legion.

After the bombing of Macchi, the career of '202 and '205 was almost nullified. After the bloody war, however, some stuff had surveyed and so, some MC 205 new or by MC 202 trasformation were sent to Egypt. Totally, 42 MC 205 were sent, but the 31 made by MC 202 were lasted with only 2 mtg. Breda. If nothing else, they had should been more lighter and performing than usual. Some fought against Israel, and some were in service until 1951. Fiat G.55/59, more modern, were also more successfull in post-war businness.




[edit] Macchi 202 vs the others

How Macchi feared against other aircraft? Usually, like german and italian identified all british fighter as 'spitfire' allied identified frequently as Bf 109 italian fighters. So it's not really easy to establish how they done really, and the ratio of lossess inflicted.

In general, Macchi was superior to the Hurricane and P-40, but the heavy weaponry of both was a real danger as well for the nimble italians and german fighters. P-39 was inferior as well, at least at altitude. Spitfire Mk V was a match and always a well respected foe, cleary superior at altidude thanks to the powerful Merlin 45 engine and the big elliptic low-charged wing. P-38 was also a formidable foe as well.

Spitfire was a relatively light costruction, less robust, but more armoured. It has a lower wingload, and higher p/W ratio, so it should had been a better performer and dogfighter than the Macchi. It was much better armed, until the few cannon shell were fired (6-12 seconds), after it was a question much closer, with 4x7,7mm. (20 seconds of fire) vs. 2x12,7mm. (30-40 seconds) for the macchi. However, weaponry of Spit was generally (despite the short endurance) considered much more effective.

As performances and agility, Spitfire were, as Hurricane, hampered by Vokes airfilters, that given to them an aerodinamic much worsened. So they weren't really good as expected while Axis fighters were equipped with air filters much less dragging. Apart this, the possibility of escaping of diving was obtained by DB fighters because the iniection fuel sistem, that didn't stopped the engine in a dive. The small german design was good enough to make a much smaller aircraft and then, a better speed/power ratio than Merlin.

DB had also a provision for a gun inside, but Macchi was equipped with none. This not because the engine, but the structure of the fighetr: even if bigger than BF.109 it cannot accomodate a gun inside the nose. This was a problem, because a eventuale 3th Breda 12,7 mm or Mauser gun could give to MAcchi a reasonably good firepower. But in 1940 the motor-guns weren't reliable and Castoldi taken a lot of time to reproject his fighter to have a weaponry improved: the Macchi 205V had still the weaponry of '202, and only 205N had finally a Mauser gun in the nose.

As agility, some reports implied that Macchi turned better than Spitfire, but giving the rough numbers (wingoload, stall speed etc.) this could not be supported and sadly not are known report on Macchi as those made for german fighters.

Also the climbing speed showns unusual good numbers for Macchi, 40 sec for 1000m. 5,9 min for 6. but this not match with wingload and power ratio, both worse than Spit and Bf-109 E/F. Even, these numbers are competitive with DB.605 engined Macchi, a thing that could'n be accepted, so the valuations of these performances should be taken with a precise knowledge of how those test were performed (weight, rated power of engine etc.).





The Italian aircraft industry produced around 1,200 C.202s, in 11 series between 1941 and 1943. Of these, Macchi produced 392, the rest being supplied by production lines at Breda and SAI Ambrosini.

[edit] Variants

Like its predecessor C.200, the C.202 saw only a few modifications during its career. Starting with Serie VI, the fighter had a new wing with a provision for 2x 7.7 mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns, and one aircraft (serial number MM 91974) was fitted with a pair of gondola-mounted 20 mm cannon. Respect to Reggiane Re.2001 it was a lot less flexible as adaptability and it has subtantially the same project from start to 1994.

C.202AS
Dust filters for operations in North Africa (AS - Africa Settentrionale, North Africa)
C.202CB
Underwing hardpoints for 2 100kg. bombs or 100l. drop tanks (CB - Caccia Bombardierre, Fighter-Bomber).Really few use, because Macchi 202 were desperately needed for air superiority.
C.202R
Equiped with photo cameras for reconnaissance missions (R - Ricognizione, Reconnaissance)
C.202D (serial number MM 7768)
Prototype with a revised radiator. This was similar to P-40, placed under the nose.
C.202EC: perhaps 'Esperimento cannoni' it had 2 Mauser gun under wings. The only adapted for these arms.
C.202 with DB 605 engine. This was MC 202 bis, that was re-called MC.205. The 2 aircraft were almost equal, but not really equal as often said. In truth almost all the aircraft was redesigned, expecially the aft fuselage and cockpit. Only wings are almost the same, and this lead a decadence in performance and agility at altitude expecially.
After the war, 41 C.202 airframes were fitted with license-built Daimler-Benz DB 605 engines and sold to Egypt as C.205 Veltros.

--Stefanomencarelli 10:19, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


The reason why i insist on these things is the sequent:

  • Bf-109s were already known and feared by allied in the desert: the apparition of the Macchi was a bad new for 2 reasons: a- it was finally an italian fighter that can whip the main opponents, insthead to be whipped by them and b-Bf-109s were few, so Macchi 202 were good to improve the quantity and give to Regia an effective weapon, since Bf-109s were indisponible to be exported in Italy.
  • The armament of Macchi had several times more opportunity to be used against many of allied fighters, until Spitfire and P-38 began. But, if P-40 or Hurricane had the opportunity, and often happened, they strike very hard as well, so axis fighter were made on pieces in more than one occasion. So these encounters were never 'easy': turn on the wrong direction and 6 M2s sent directly to S.Peter or Valhalla. This is important to point: Hurricane had lower performances, but its punch was ALWAYS well respected by enemy. No stuff like P-40 vs Ki-27 (2x7,7) were possible: the first that made a mistake was dead. So i want remark this: Allied had very respectable machines, even if underpowered.

Another aspects to search is still the Macchi performances: the climbing capability seems to me cleary overstated; it cannot climb better than Bf-109E, if yes i would know why. It cannot outurn (and outclimb) Spitfire, if yes i would know why. I don't pose faith on combat report, a bit too entusiastic. Gorrini stated that Macchi was overrun by Spitfire, while looking to performances it should'n be true. He made a mistake or the 'official' figures were too optimistics? I know that G.50s in finnish service were atleast 40kmh slower than official, and i not talk about ski-modiphied one.--Stefanomencarelli 11:50, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


Apart the above aspects, i find that this articles are becaming OK as overall worth.--Stefanomencarelli 09:44, 11 August 2007 (UTC)