Talk:Mabel Dodge Luhan

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[edit] Faderman / bisexual

I've taken out the "bisexual" claim. Firstly, saying "as her biography demonstrates" is is original research. A claim like this should be sourced to something that says "Luhan was bisexual" or "Luhan had relationships with both men and women". Secondly, the references provided was to Faderman's "Odd Girls", which (from what I can tell) only mentions Luhan once. If Luhan's bisexuality can be properly sourced, please re-add the information? Thanks! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 17:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't see why you would think this is improperly sourced. I've not read her memoirs, Faderman mentions exactly what I added. It is a published academic history book...Why would that not be a 'serious' reference?Zigzig20s (talk) 17:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

A reference to a biography (a BOOK) is not OR - it is simply not easy to verify without a library. NIghtjar (talk) 18:28, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, maybe SatyrTN thought I was saying that her memoirs demonstrated it...but that's what Faderman says, I've not read the memoirs, otherwise I would give the exact page in the memoirs. Hence my reference. And hmmm if we decide not to include books, then it will be extremely difficult to reference anything at all...Zigzig20s (talk) 18:46, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

So if someone writes a confession of a murder, the person can't be called a murderer unless the person also explicitly comes out and calls themselves a murderer, or some author of a book draws the conclusion for us and uses the word? Not every 'deduction' can be OR surely.NIghtjar (talk) 19:04, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry - was "as her biography demonstrates" a direct quote from Faderman? I didn't get that impression - sorry. Perhaps we can reword that so that it's in a more encyclopedic tone? And do you have the Faderman book? I'm assuming you do, since I've seen several references to it on various articles. It worried me that a Google search of the book only returns one hit for Luhan in the entire book. I don't have it, and I could very well be wrong, but that's what worried me - that it might be a mention in passing or something. Please re-add if I'm wrong - maybe reworded? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 21:29, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

'As was the case with A'Leila Walker in Harlem, it was Mabel's own open bisexual behavior, which she wrote about voluminously in her memoirs, that helped to foster some sexual tolerance in Greenwich Village during those early years.'. This is pretty straightforward, don't you think?Zigzig20s (talk) 08:32, 16 January 2008 (UTC)