Talk:Ma'alot-Tarshiha

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"According to CBS," is appearing a few too many times in this article. --theothermeat 22:30, 18 May 2006 (UTC)I think I fixed this.

Contents 1 Merger 2 Merger 3 Unicode characters in titles 4 Requested move 4.1 Discussion 5 Massacre source

[edit] Merger

This is the same city as Ma'alot (Ma'alot is part of Ma'alot-Tarshiha), and has only 1 common article in the Hebrew version. -- Ynhockey 05:31, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merger

Tarshiha was a Palestinian village long before Israel occupied it. Much of the village and surrounding land has since been either annexed or "appropriated" -- including previously cultivated areas outside Tarshiha proper and properties within the recognized limits of the original pre-1948 village. Many of the original inhabitants, who continue to take their grievances to court to prevent the Israeli government's appropriation of their property, would no doubt be offended by this attempt in Wikipedia to make the original Palestinian village "disappear" by renaming or recategorizing it. After all, Tarshiha existed as a village long before Israel declared itself a state in 1948; prior to that it was a Palestinian city under British Mandate.

Wikipedia is a wonderful resource and, as such, it should not be used to achieve political gains through such insidious practices. Please respect it. Any user who wishes to have more information or links to references here is welcome to request it, but the statement above is solely the belief of the author/user and does not violate any copyright. Rather it is intended to generate some useful discussion here. Fulani 11:28, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I was suggesting getting rid of the Ma'alot article (and incorporating it into this one), not the Ma'alot-Tarshiha article. Also, Tarshiha wasn't an Arab village, it is an Arab village. Both Tarshihan and Ma'alot representatives agreed to merge their municipalities into one a long time ago. Please don't turn this into another Palestinian refugee sob story - the residents of Tarshiha (who are all Arab) seem to be pretty happy living there alongside their Jewish counterparts in Ma'alot. -- Ynhockey 12:40, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I merged Ma'alot into this article, as rightly suggested above. The original Ma'alot article was just a stub, and what few additional factual details it had could easily be incorporated into the larger article, which I did. I also added a History subsection, to reflect the histories of both Tarshiha and Maalot, hopefully in an NPOV manner. Ynhockey - I think Tarshiha is not your usual "Palestinian refugee sob story": in this specific case of a Jewish-Arab municipality merge (pretty unique in all Israel), the Arab inhabitants claim that they got the shorter stick. I'm not taking sides, but it is a fact that not all Arab (indeed, nor all Jewish) inhabitants are happy about this merger. altmany 14:41, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Unicode characters in titles

All right you lot, I don't know what you think you're doing, but Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) is quite clear on this point. Weird Unicode characters are not allowed in article titles - that's why we have an article Kaaba and not Ka'aba. For a start, ḥ letter has NO place in the article title. I have moved the article to Maalot-Tarshikha for now. Enjoy. Izehar 10:32, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

PS don't move articles without fixing the double redirects. Izehar 10:46, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Why did you do this? The naming was already screwed-up and now it's even more so. The correct English spelling is Ma'alot Tarshiha. This is what the city itself uses. Now you moved it to a completely wrong spelling (kh for HET or Arabic HA), and I can't move it back due to an error Wikipedia gives. Please discuss these changes before implementing them next time. Just FYI, we wanted the article moved to Ma'alot Tarshiha, without unicode characters, as it said in the move notice, which I'm going to restore now. -- Ynhockey 11:31, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Look, leave a notice on WP:AN asking an administrator to move it; say that everyone agrees. Izehar 11:49, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Also, FYI Arabic ح "kha" and Hebrew ח "khet" are widely transliterated "kh" in order to avoid confusion with خ and ה. Izehar 11:49, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I've requested a formal move to Ma'alot-Tarshiha as per the guidelines at WP:RM. Please vote below, and then we can get an administrator to move the page. Izehar 11:57, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

This page should be moved to Ma'alot-Tarshiha because that is the name the city itself uses.

---

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~

• Support Izehar 11:52, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
• Support IZAK 12:11, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
• Support Ynhockey 12:22, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
• Support Fulani
• Support Yoninah 17:32, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments

Support Ynhockey request to revert, however please see comment below Fulani 12:29, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Please! I don't know about Hebrew, but Arabic has three "H" sounds, at least from an English-speaker's standpoint, and is ح not "kha" 1 - ha [soft; equivalent to English "h"] 2 - ḥa [hard, like a hiss; fricative, in linguistic terminology] 3 - kha [hardest, like clearing one's throat to spit; also fricative]

Tarshiha is an Arabic name for a pre-1948 Palestinian village in al-Jalil (Galilee). This Arabic name uses the second fricative "h" listed above. Please respect the original language by using "h" not "kh" -- even if you don't recognize the origins of the now-occupied village. Fulani 12:18, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Fulani - I'm not sure if you know this (most people don't), but there are strict rules of transliteration into Latin characters of Israeli place names, which were actually set up by the British during the British Mandate, for both Hebrew and Arabic placenames. This causes lots of smiles when people read funny names like Qiryat... etc., but these transliteration rules have their own internal logic. And in any case, it's the official transliteration that counts. It doesn't dis-respect any original language. altmany 14:47, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Massacre source

Just to clarify, the fact that the DFLP massacred those 21 students is uncontested. It happened. The fact tag is to prove they were killed in their sleep. I thought it was a hostage situation. Thanks for adding the source for the former though. --Al Ameer son (talk) 20:25, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

They were not murdered in their sleep. It is just explaining what they were doing there at night, when there is no school. They were using the school as a place to sleep. They were taken hostage at night and killed the next day. Happy138 (talk) 20:58, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh ok, thanks. I clarified in the text. --Al Ameer son (talk) 21:08, 28 May 2008 (UTC)