Talk:M50 motorway (Ireland)

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Curious that the Dublin orbital motorway (M50) has a number twice that of the London orbital motorway (M25)...or should I say, "doublin'" it??? Hey, you never know, someone at the Irish road ministry may have a sense of humour or perhaps they just think about things without reference to the UK!

Not attempting to trample on the humour, but the choice of M50 makes perfect logical sense. The M50 is a National Primary Route (therefore actually legislated for as an "N" route). All N numbers up to 33 are taken already, and those of N51 or above are National Secondary Routes.
N/M50 is the only memorable number available apart from perhaps N/M40. N/M34 would have been the allocation if sequential numbering was continued.
The only slight flaw in this explanation is that N50, although unused, may have originally been included in the secondary route number range.
zoney ♣ talk 22:50, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The numbering method chosen is completely trivial in the greater course of things. This discussion is about as interesting as train-spotting!

Which 'greater course' is this? This is an article about the M50, surely the origin of the name is worth inclusion. Whether it is interesting is a different matter. Why are you here? 217.67.129.153 13:15, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

What is even more strange is that the motorway linking dublin and belfast ( irelands two main cities) is only called the M1 south of the border as the northerners have reserved the M1 title for the motorway linking Belfast and that metropolis Dungannon! maybe they just think without making reference to the outside world.

Bobtastic

Contents

[edit] Junction numbering

Contrary to recent updates on this page M50 J3 is no longer also M1 J3, it is now M1 J1 (with the Airport exit J2) unless signs have been changed very recently. See the middle of this page for the gantry southbound on the M1 for the M50 / N32 exit, it clearly bears the junction number "1". South of this is the M50 (for some reason not actually signed on this particular gantry!) I will revert the changes. --Rdd 17:27, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] J13/J14

Can someone put something about the strange limited exits and entries around junctions 13 and 14. There is a picture with a mention of the overlap. Certain journeys are impossible, such as to enter going anti-clockwise at Dundrum and then exit at Leopardstown. I guess I'm interested in the rational behind the current situation.

Hi. J13 is actually a full junction, only it is in two parts. Going southbound/anti-clockwise on the M50: - you exit at Ballinteer (under the Ticknock overbridge) and down into Dundrum. To get back on at J13 you must take the parallel road south for a mile to the roundabout over the mainline at the top of Drumartin Road (Sandyford Industrial Estate). From there you can join the M50 in either direction.

J14 is a restricted junction which joins the Leopardstown Road; you can only leave the M50 if heading anti-clockwise/south; and you can only join it to head clockwise/north.

To complicate matters the on and off ramps of J14 go under the second roundabout and some ramps of J13.

So if you are heading clockwise; first you encounter, in this order; the off-ramp of J13; on-ramp J14 and a mile further on the on-ramp of J13. Going anti-clockwise; off-ramp J13, a mile further the off-ramp J14 and when you appear to have cleared all the complex of bridges you meet the off-ramp of J13.

Hence the overlapping! (Mind you, this all looks simple to the planned Red Cow and N4 junctions)!(Sarah777 06:42, 16 February 2007 (UTC))

Thanks for the information!

Now, any idea why it is that way??

I think it is to facilitate a possible future Eastern Bypass - which would join the M50 at this point - there were designs of a road of motorway standard circulated a few years back but I've heard nothing since. And maybe the fact the M50 is deeply cut into the bedrock in the vicinity of J13/14 had something to do with it. Or maybe they need the off-ramps at Ballinteer because that is where the Southern Cross section ended and they weren't sure they'd ever get to finish it! (Sarah777 12:00, 22 March 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Junction / Exit???

I notice that the article on the M50 refers to the first intersection on the M50 as Junction 1 or J1, the second as Junction 2 or J2 etc., as is common in Britian. These should really be referred to as Exit 1 Exit 2 as is the NRA standard. I notice that the use of J1, J2 has caught on amongst some drivers who have used motorways in Britain, but any official references to the motorway, and AA roadwatch etc. use Exit 1, Exit 2.

I know I am being a little pedantic, but I feel that the article should be ammended reflecting official usage. However I don't intend on editing it myself, only for it to be reverted due to "vandalism".

Regards,

LLF LaoisLeinsterFan 17:26, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

LLF. I think the 'EXIT' refers just to the off-ramp (like the 'Ausfart' on German motorways). The Junction would be the entire complex, usually one or two over-bridges and four on/off ramps. (Sarah777 22:43, 19 February 2007 (UTC))

'Junction' actually refers to when one road splits in two, eg. the M7/M9 junction, or in a railway sense Howth Junction, Limerick junction. On the M50, the road does not split in two, other roads cross the main carriageway, and slip roads connect them. The whole complex is called an intersection.

The question is however, 'Junction' seems to be the word that the general public use, so should Wikipedia reflect this, or should it reflect the official designation of 'Exit'?

Regards LaoisLeinsterFan 15:05, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

OK. So when I say 'exit' I mean 'junction' and when I say 'junction' I mean 'intersection'? That's fine by me. (Sarah777 20:21, 20 February 2007 (UTC))

The NRA themselves don't seem to have a standard. They do use "Exit" a lot, but junctions are not just exits but also entry points so its incorrect. They've however used "Junction" officially before in a press release on the N11, which I can't seem to find at the moment on the website. There was also an article in the one of the Sunday newspapers last weekend (Sunday Tribune IIRC) referring to a VMS which read "J11", the writer wondering what J11 was! The developer of Carrickmines Retail Park seems intent on popularising Exit however with their ads "Exit 15 off the M50".

You could go either way, but my own vote is for Junction. Wikipedia rules are for most common name, not official name in any case, although in Ireland to use most common name would mean putting "The Lucan Road exit" etc...

--Rdd 20:31, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Yep. And we'd have to talk about the "Mad Cow" roundabout and call Blanchardstown 'Blanch'. wiki policy is sometimes very silly....(Sarah777 01:23, 2 March 2007 (UTC))

[edit] MILES???????????????

Why are miles displayed as the prominant unit it the Fig giving the stats of the M50? it has 27 MILES ( 43 km )

I shouldn't have to remind people that Ireland uses the metric system, and though many people are familiar with miles their use is becoming less and less every day, and rarely heard anymore, kilometres are the order of the day, and have been on signs for twenty years plus and speed limits for nearly 3 years.

I would like it if the miles were removed, or put in brackets after the km if they must be kept.

(Limbo-Messiah 16:33, 23 August 2007 (UTC))

Be Bold and change it yourself. AgentPeppermint 16:36, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I've just measured it with Google Earth and it comes out at 46 km give or take a hundred metres. That's from the start of the port Tunnel to Exit 17 with the M11 (Limbo-Messiah 16:53, 23 August 2007 (UTC))

Check. That's about the same distance I get scaling with my left pinkie. (Sarah777 22:25, 23 August 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Finglas rounabout

Does anyone know why the M50-N2 rounabout at Fingals has 2 gated tunnels in the centre?I have wondered about this for ages and have never been able to find an answer. Sgt baker 22:40, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I have noticed this also. I reckon they were allowing for the N2 to pass under the M50 but then decided to make a more miserable junction instead - to match all the other miserable junctions on the M50. (Sarah777 23:48, 29 August 2007 (UTC))
Or maybe it's for Metro North? In which case the route was known 10 years ago. (Sarah777 (talk) 00:56, 9 December 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Northbound or Clockwise?

"Southbound" and "Northbound" are erroneous, especially with the opening of the Dublin Port Tunnel, as these labels were created for the initial Western Parkway section. "Northbound" refers to clockwise and "Southbound" refers to anti-clockwise relative to Dublin city centre . (taken from article).

The fact is that "Northbound/Southbound" are the terms used almost universally when referring to the M50; in common parlance, on the radio etc. Without the closure of the ring, this is pretty much accurate for all bar the tunnel.

I'm reverting the clock-references. (Sarah777 (talk) 00:53, 9 December 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Exits

I've only heard of "Exits" refered to as "Exits" and not as "J" or "Junctions". I'm from and live in Ireland. Refering to "J3" ??? They are signed as "Next Exit" and as "Exit 3" on the Motorway and HQDC or DC. And the media refer to them as "Exit"

The only Junctions I know of are the ones in the centre of Dublin and Cork. And they are street junctions for inner ring roads.

Limbo-Messiah (talk) 10:28, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Not so sure. The only signs that use the term "exit" on the motorways around Dublin are signs on the motorway which advise you how to get off (or exit) the motorway. In Germany a similar situation arises with "Ausfart" used where we'd use "exit"; but the junctions are not called "Ausfarts".
As for common usage; roadworks signs, advance warning signs etc all use "J"; also Dublin City Council's morning traffic programme uses the term "junction" unless they specifically mean "exit". (And even then the phrase; "leave the motorway at junction 15" is far the more common usage).
And finally, while not wishing to pit my WP:OR against yours, I live in Dublin and the term "junction" tends to be used for the junction and "exit" only when referring to the exit; which is only part of a junction. (Sarah777 (talk) 13:11, 18 December 2007 (UTC))
Reading the earlier talk above; a "junction" is not synonymous with a "fork". A fork (M7/M9; exit ramps etc) is a type of junction. So is a crossroads. So is a T-junction! Again, I think we have folk confusing the word "junction" with it's various types and/or components. A motorway intersection is a junction; composed of various component junctions; forks, T-junctions, roundabout junctions etcetera. Some of these components are exits; others are entrances; off-ramps and on-ramps. (I've also noticed that "junction" is the term used most commonly by the NRA and is universally used on maps; AA, Collins; OSi and and Michelin I have to hand). - Sarah777 (talk) 13:26, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Sara, sorry ,but I think it is an Intersection what you are refering to and not a Junction. But I've never come across anyone saying J3 or J5, doesn't sound correct. I've heard Exit 5 or Exit 7 so many times. And refering to Ausfarht in you reasearch is a bit silly as you cannot alway translate a language directly. Words can get lost in translation. The media use "the intersection of the M50 and the N3" or "Exit 6"

Dublin city council and cork city council have put up signs with J1 and J5 and so on but I've yet to hear them being used in media or by another person.

Sorry but since you will alway persist in calling it Junction and "J" ???? I won't try and change it as you will always change it back.

Limbo-Messiah (talk) 14:09, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Ultimately I won't decide; if I'm wrong I'll be overruled. But in my experience "junction" (not "J", which is just shorthand - who uses "E" for exit when speaking?!) is far the most common usage except perhaps in the specific context of leaving a motorway. I was looking at the roadworks signs this evening and they have phrases such as "Use the exit at J15" or "Exit at J15". The road between "J13 and J15" will be closed between 8pm Sat to 10am Sunday to erect a Luas bridge. Etc - I can take photos if needed. And don't forget the maps - ALL of them. Different words for different things! (Sarah777 (talk) 21:53, 18 December 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Fake M50 Signs

N1
Look at the colours here
Look at the colours here

The images of the M50 signs used in the infobox are for the M50 in the UK not RoI! Compare these pics with the photograph in the article and you will see that the motorway symbol is on the wrong side! Click the images and you will find that the image names include UK in their title. Likewise the M1 & M11 signs. Peter Clarke (talk) 14:58, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Yep. That's a problem; for example we get miles before kilometers. We certainly need an Irish version but I, for one, have no idea how to make these boxes. Sarah777 (talk) 00:30, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Me neither. Peter Clarke (talk) 11:38, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I can make the image in png accurately, but wouldn't now how to load it. or make the box. I'd prefer to just have km in the box too. Limbo-Messiah (talk) 15:05, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I've made this version of the symbol using AutoCAD http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1c/M50_motorway_IE.png Limbo-Messiah (talk) 18:21, 10 March 2008 (UTC) also m1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:M1_motorway_IE.pngLimbo-Messiah (talk) 18:43, 10 March 2008 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:M11_motorway_IE.pngLimbo-Messiah (talk) 18:45, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Just noticed the m-way symbol on the wrong side (despite Peter Clarke pointing it out!). I'll have a shot at including Limbo's new png. Sarah777 (talk) 02:46, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Hmmmmmm. I'm stuck! Sarah777 (talk) 02:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
I can't do it either, must have to contact someone who can design a generic motorway info box for ireland, I've changed some routes on other articles too. I'll do as many as I can. But it takes a while as there are allot.Limbo-Messiah (talk) 11:10, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Limbo, are you sure about the yellow colour on the N-route shields? Sarah777 (talk) 12:13, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

The wierd thing is that even for the UK the symbol is on the wrong side! Check out the picture on this page from a UK motorway - their start of motorway sign is identical to ours, chopsticks on right... [1] --Rdd (talk) 14:47, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Right, seeing as I inflicted the UK routebox on the Irish motorway pages I may as well be the one to create the Irish version. Here's Template:IRL motorway routebox for everyone to play with. I have't reinvented the wheel, just taken the UK one, made km priority over miles and added two new fields, parent is parent N-road, while N-roads is for junctions with national roads. Oh and thanks to Limbo-Messiah the symbol is on the proper side now. --Rdd (talk) 17:58, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

No problem about the correct side. And it now has a proper border to the correct spec of the Traffic Signs Manual 1996. I remade all the route shields from scratch using CAD. And they are open to public use, so anyone feel free to use them anywhere. But can it have km only in the info box. Limbo-Messiah (talk) 20:53, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


but I did the copyright thing wrong for M11 and another one. I'll fix that later.Limbo-Messiah (talk) 21:00, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Personally I'm in favour of retaining miles as a secomdary measurement but if there is a consensus for removing it then that can be done. We don't yet know that there will be an M25 motorway, the N25 Waterford City Bypass is not being built under a Motorway Order but that doesn't preclude an order being made under the Roads Act 2007 at a future date. One hasn't been sought in the initial round of reclassifications though. --Rdd (talk) 19:32, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Re the 'M'25; it is being tolled and I read somewhere that it will become (somewhat confusingly) the Irish M25. But as I can't remember where I read that I won't put it in the article....Sarah777 (talk) 22:51, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Mind you, I find I keep referring to the big London Orbital as the "M50" - habits are hard to break. Sarah777 (talk) 22:53, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
As the person who started all this caper, I have to say - Well done everybody! PeterClarke 12:33, 24 March 2008 (UTC)