Talk:M.I.A. (artist)

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Archive 1

Contents 1 Discography? 2 Themes, topics and views 3 Year of Birth and age? 4 Sustainable Development EP?? 5 Singles?

[edit] Discography?

DriveDelta, I think if you want to move the Paper Planes Homeland Security Remixes to discography article, then you should also move the mixtapes and singles and everything. We should either have the complete discography on another article, or the whole discography on the M.I.A. page. I have seen how others do it and mostly people just put the studio albums on the main page and then everything else on the discography page. We should do it like this. That would mean just listing Arular and Kala and then having a link to the discography. Since you have taken the responsibility to move the remixes EP I'll let you finish the job and move everything else. Otherwise I am going to move the remix EP back, and I'll finish the job myself later. As of right now its incomplete. It should either be a complete seperate discography, or an included discography on main page just with main albums. Exander2009 (talk) 18:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

See WP:MUSTARD#Discographies. A simple system on the main article can constitute both albums and singles, as it states. I'm inserting the singles table back here. The rest can remain on her discography page. DriveDelta (talk) 07:47, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

OK lets draw the line there then. The main article should have singles and main albums only, and then everything else on her discography. Exander2009 (talk) 17:25, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Themes, topics and views

Do not revert mass edits without discussing. Personally, I find this section is small and can easily be merged into the main body of the article. The beginning line is something like "Global ideas and issues are presented in M.I.A.'s art". As the edit summary says, if it’s about issues represented through her art, then a title including the word "Themes" is a better title than just “Political views.” Its contents are likely to be changed/added to over time, to keep it worth staying as a separate section. Edits such as this [1] are necessary because it read like a personal reflection and was essay like. "Themes, topics and views" more than adequately covers its contents, as oppose to the vague "political views". You may indeed have listed some of her political views here, but that's not all that's in this section now. If there's still a problem, we can ask for a third opinion. Cookie90 (talk) 19:39, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I am happy that you are interested in this article and Wikipedia and I know we can work out the difference in opinion. It should be indisputed that MIA has Political Views. I have read nearly every piece of media there is on M.I.A., watched every video, and have listened to every piece of music. I totally disagree that the Political Views section is like a personal essay. I provide adequate resources like Rolling Stone, and use quotations from the artist herself as Wikipedia suggests. M.I.A. is one of the most political artists out right now. Look at her latest relase, the Homeland Security Remixes--the very title is political. As far as your "Themes, topics, and views" title--I feel that is way more vague than Political Views. There should without a doubt be a Political views section to M.I.A. Take a look at other political artists' pages, like Kanye West, Rage Against the Machine or even the Dixie Chicks and you will find political sections. I am a major in Political Science at University. That does not negate what you are saying, and I don't know you, but it is relevant because this is my expertise and that's why I chose to write this . What could be more vague then the word topics?? That goes without saying. Views? Of course she has views, I am talking about her Political views.Themes? Websters defines themes as this: 1 a: a subject or topic of discourse or of artistic representation <guilt and punishment is the theme of the story> b: a specific and distinctive quality, characteristic, or concern <the campaign has lacked a theme> One of Maya's biggest themes is her politics. Now if you want to create an overarching title "Themes, topics, and views" with Political Views a subpart of that, that is fine with me. And you can write those other theme sections if you want, but Political Views should be part of it. One of Rolling Stone's article titles for M.I.A. was "M.I.A. goes Global", because she toured the world to record her album and has global political themes in her music. You can argue that anything in the universe can be classified with something else. Basketball in sports, sports in exercise, exercise in health etc. etc. etc. But, in this case, I want to highlight M.I.A's Political Views, with a section to itself, because she has Political Views. Again this is not some personal reflection or something, I base this section on Maya's own words and the articles I have read. Also again, if you want to create a Themes section or something, and have Political Views be part of it, then that is cool with me. But, at this point, no one has written another theme or topic to go under that. There isn't a love theme, or a religion theme or family theme or something. But if you want to write that that is cool, and then we can have use for a bigger title like themes, topics and views. You say its about issues represented through her art. Yes, but its specifically about political issues not just issues. Politics is the study of who gets what, when, where and why. That's why I talk about what I talk about there. Maya has come from a mud hut in Sri Lanka where she used to be harassed by soldiers, to a world renowned musical artist. So, its fitting that we talk she talks about who gets what and why. Just because a sentence is short does not mean its bad. And just because a sentence is long does not mean its good. Einstein said, if you can't explain something simply, then you probably don't understand it. Adding the phrase "a variety" is not clean up or editing, I think its just redundant. You are right there are different themes in Maya's art. And people can add those later, and then we can put that under a themes title or something along with political views. I think that would be a perfect compromise. I would do it right now, except there are no other themes written up yet so it would be redundant. Also, I feel her political views is her biggest theme so that's why the users have it there. Finally I want say again I am happy in your interest, and I am wanting to resolve this and hopefully a better article will result. You bring up a good point that politics is not her only theme, but I do feel it is the biggest. With this said I will revert back. Hopefully in the future when there is more written about Maya, there will be different themes. A lot of the literature on her shows her political theme. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.200.111.208 (talk) 23:22, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Exander

Thanks for your reply. I'm afraid you're just confirming everything that I've already written. This is about the difference between a "theme" and a "view", not about whether you and I agree she is political. You've just described the fact that political issues are Themes in her work and that the citations and her quotes you include describe/explain them as such. All true. You use the example Paper Planes -Homeland Security Remixes EP as good evidence. You also admit that they (political issues) are not the only themes in her work. This in itself warrants the inclusion of the word Themes in the title.

That politics is her art's 'biggest' "theme" (which I'm not saying is untrue) does not automatically mean it deserves its own section either, and everything else should be deleted. Sections in wikipedia are present only if there isn't a chance it could be integrated into the main body. Topics were broken down and were included in the section (political topics already included), and the new title allows further contributions should other users wish to add. However these could easily be included in the main body.

Frankly there currently aren't 'enough' "views" mentioned in this section. The other articles you've listed which you claim have similar sections are cases in point. These other sections consist largely of many political "views" and "activism" advocated in interviews, programmes etc. by them independently, and not about how (or that) they are presented through their art ("themes"). So it makes sense that the titles for those sections are "political views" and/or whatever else. You can include her views as part of this section should you choose to do so, and if there are enough, create a subsection with that as a title if you want. That's why the word views was also kept in the title I suggested as a compromise. If you want, the title can be changed to "Political themes, topics, and views" for now, until it's added to further. M.I.A has used "political themes" in her art far more than she has expressed "political views" independently of these. True, citations are provided only so edits do not look like personal reflections, and it follows that the sentences in the section should be written in a way that neutral point of view is upheld. I've now done that. This is an encyclopaedia article, not a dissertation. Remember not to revert back until a discussion has ended and consensus is reached. Cookie90 (talk) 09:09, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Well I agree with you, as I said earlier, that Political Views would fit into a section of "Themes" in her music. So, I am satisfied with the current title. I do not agree with adding the phrase "a variety" to the first sentence. I just feel that is not needed, adds clutter, and makes it a weaker sentence. Of course it will be a variety, and plural. She does not have one view, I think that goes without saying. That's an issue of style. Now, I really have a problem with this sentence: "These include lyrical topics and imagery drawing from Arul's own experiences and observations of poverty, the meaning of identity, survival, violence, and forms of prejudice." I actually agree with that sentence, but you don't cite any sources. That's when you start to wonder about how it got there, we need to cite sources. I know for a fact she has articles where she talks about the survival aspect and also in a few interviews. But we should 'cite before we write'. Also, how do you call her Arul? Is that your nickname from her last name? I think that could add confusion with her political leader father Arular among other things. "Arul has also expressed her desire to create, through her art, a way to help others hear voices she feels are not normally heard." I feel the preceding sentence is adequately represented by M.I.A.'s own words and the previous version. I will add the "she feels" part though. Why delete the hyperlink to Sri Lanka? There is a hyerlink earlier in the article to the country, but why not have one here as well? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Exander2009 (talk • contribs) 20:54, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

The practice for WP:Citing sources is clearly stated, and I think you should read the article. As you say, there are sources for this info, and the practice is to add a citation tag to information that is likely to be challenged rather than blank out the sentences completely. Seeing as you agree with the sentence, (don't find it contentious), and it isn't likely to be challenged, I see no reason why you should remove it altogether or tag it, but if you know of sources, feel free to enter them. Calling her Arul is fine, as has been done in articles about her, so long as she is not referred to by her first name (Maya) on the article when being attributed things. That is a stylistic weak point. The information has been readded. If an article is linked once, it need not be linked again in the same article, but I've left this link here. Remember to sign your comments off with the four tildes, and I recommend you read the guidelines on wikipedia. Cookie90 (talk) 22:49, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

I am changing Arul to Arulpragasam. Arul is the first name of her father. No other user here uses Arul. There may be other Internet articles that nick her Arul, but it is inappropriate because that is her father's name. Let's use proper names whenever possible. Exander2009 (talk) 00:16, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

What is the problem with this part? " M.I.A. often talks about the relationship between first and third world countries and the differences that exist between them, but also the similarities. "It's O.K. to add new elements to your ideas, to your existence," Maya says.

Keep in mind that I found this quote Rolling Stone and it is a two sentence quote. It goes along with the other part. What is your problem with the first part of M.I.A.'s thought? "It's O.K. to add new elements to your ideas, to your existence," Maya says. "There will be more bridges built between the developed and developing world." Why do you want to edit M.i.A.'s thought? I am putting it back because I have not seen a good reason and it goes with what you were saying before about not deleting that are not contentious. You gave a good reason why i should leave your sentence, which we can easily find a resource for later, "These include lyrical topics and imagery drawing from Arulpragasam's own experiences and observations of poverty, the meaning of identity, survival, violence, and forms of prejudice." So i left it in. But what is the reason to delete the first part of what M.i.A. says. Why do you delete this: "M.I.A. often talks about the relationship between first and third world countries and the differences that exist between them, but also the similarities."? Do you find it contentious?

I feel this sentence is quite akward: "Arulpragasam has also expressed her desire to create, through her art, a way to help others hear voices she feels are not normally heard in the World." I think it says the same thing I am saying in a different, longer way. Usually when another person has taken the time to come up with a quote or a source and written a perfectly fine sentence I don't try to mess with it even if I feel I could put some sauce on it and spice it a bit. I expect the same. I say this in good faith.

She has not just "expressed a desire" to do this she has pretty much done it. Wants is a perfectly fine word, we don't need "expressed a desire".

"A way to help others hear voices", is akward also. She is not just helping others hear voices she is literally giving a voice to those without a voice. Length can be important but that is a bit wordy I think.

"Her work has featured political and social commentary. " I think the preceding sentence is redundant but I will leave it in.

Please come up with some sources for this sentence. "These include lyrical topics and imagery drawing from Arulpragasam's own experiences and observations of poverty, the meaning of identity, survival, violence, and forms of prejudice." Its a lot of you to claim to know her personal observations and experiences. I have read some Wiki policy, and yes sentences should not be removed without reason, but sentences without sources are liable for removal, especially in pages about a person.

Please see that I have kept a lot of your suggestions. I don't know about you but I think we are very close to resolution if not already. If we go on much longer M.I.A. will have released her third album already! =) Exander2009 (talk) 01:16, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I am changing the title of the section to all that is needed, Politics. If we look up Politics in the dictionary we see: 4: the political opinions or sympathies of a person We do not need qualifying words to describe what the word itself already implies and means. Also, this title should absolutely be in bold just as all the others are. Exander2009 (talk) 06:17, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Year of Birth and age?

The article has her born in 1977 and being 30. In this New York Times piece from 2007 the article states at the time, that her manager gave MIA's age as 32 to them, based on her passport. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/arts/music/19sisa.html?pagewanted=print

Where is the source for her being born in 1977?Duhon (talk) 22:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Wow, good point. She jokes about her age on her myspace as being 104. I wonder how old she really is. Exander2009 (talk) 06:57, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sustainable Development EP??

I see there is a "Sustainable Development EP" listed in the template at the bottom of the page. I have never heard of it and can't find any references to it on the internet. Can anyone shed light on this. Also I know her new 2008 tour will be called the Sustainable Development tour. (66.36.133.248 (talk) 13:04, 20 April 2008 (UTC)).

[edit] Singles?

Looks like the singles list is incomplete. If you go to the articles about her albums you will find that there are some singles that are not on the list. Ytred (talk) 20:39, 4 May 2008 (UTC)